Biden, Still Grieving His Son, Finds That Not Everyone Wants to Hear About It

[Jason]

 

[MarSolo]

Jesus tap dancing Christ.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Change the wording ever so slightly and this would run on Breitbart

[Brick]

Remember when The New York Times was a respectable newspaper? What the hell happened? 

[Ghost_MH]

23 minutes ago, Brick said:

Remember when The New York Times was a respectable newspaper? What the hell happened? 

 

They went crazy after years of trying to both sides every story. Doing that requires they hire writers as far gone as the modern day GOP.

[Guest]

The headline is very accurate. Several “gold star families” complained about Biden talking too much about his son’s death when they met at the dignified transfer.

 

The updated headline doesn’t really reflect the content of the article well IMO.

[MarSolo]

15 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

The headline is very accurate. Several “gold star families” complained about Biden talking too much about his son’s death when they met at the dignified transfer.

 

The updated headline doesn’t really reflect the content of the article well IMO.

He’s trying to relate to them. Jesus fucking Christ. Like, if anyone gets what they’re going through, it’s a father who lost his son. 

[SaysWho?]

35 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

He’s trying to relate to them. Jesus fucking Christ. Like, if anyone gets what they’re going through, it’s a father who lost his son. 

 

And daughter, and wife.

 

IIRC, the two fathers who complained went straight to Fox News after speaking with Biden.

[SaysWho?]

But ask these people who most their child/spouse in the military (timestamped) how much they hated hearing from a person who lost a daughter and wife at the time from 4:30 - 5:15. 

 

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

13 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

, the two fathers who complained went straight to Fox News after speaking with Biden.

So it's a nothingburger

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

He’s trying to relate to them. Jesus fucking Christ. Like, if anyone gets what they’re going through, it’s a father who lost his son. 

Many people in the midst of grief aren’t looking for people to try and relate to them. Just as a general rule, listen a lot more than you speak when dealing with a person who is grieving. 
 

And in this case, their children died under the orders of the person they were talking to. Biden’s son died of cancer, I believe. Context is pretty important.

[SaysWho?]

23 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

So it's a nothingburger

 

Yup.

 

16 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Many people in the midst of grief aren’t looking for people to try and relate to them. Just as a general rule, listen a lot more than you speak when dealing with a person who is grieving. 
 

And in this case, their children died under the orders of the person they were talking to. Biden’s son died of cancer, I believe. Context is pretty important.

 

Nah man, they died in a terrorist attack. And they very well could have died anyway if we decided to stay considering we lost a few thousand in the past 20 years.

 

He's consoled many families with his stories of losing a daughter (and now two children since he spoke to any families prior to Beau's death). He actually can console people who lose spouses in the military and feel guilty about seeking someone else because he's had to seek someone else. He knows what it's like to have a child pre-decease you because he's gone through it twice.

 

If anything, we should be in awe at the fact that he still functions despite that; barely anyone on the planet has his experience to which he never sought.

 

The two guys who complained are right-wing crazies. This isn't context; it's bullshit, and they should be ashamed of going to their right-wing outlets to force a story.

[Ghost_MH]

26 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Many people in the midst of grief aren’t looking for people to try and relate to them. Just as a general rule, listen a lot more than you speak when dealing with a person who is grieving. 
 

And in this case, their children died under the orders of the person they were talking to. Biden’s son died of cancer, I believe. Context is pretty important.

 

He brought them up specifically to talk about how nobody can relate to this kind of loss, even if they've experienced a similar loss and are perfectly well meaning. This was the most benign thing ever, but both sides, so the NYT has to report the outage even if nobody in all truth is actually outraged.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

He brought them up specifically to talk about how nobody can relate to this kind of loss, even if they've experienced a similar loss and are perfectly well meaning. This was the most benign thing ever, but both sides, so the NYT has to report the outage even if nobody in all truth is actually outraged.

I was responding to what @MarSolosaid about him trying to relate to them. It really doesn’t matter whether he was or wasn’t in this case as my point went beyond whatever occurred in this particular situation.

 

And @SaysWho?ain't roping me in with that post  Goodnight all!

[SaysWho?]

Bro, you're being roped in by people who are being dishonest with why they're "outraged," making an argument for them as if they're speaking in good faith. 

 

The man's lost two kids and a wife. Far as I'm concerned, nobody gets to critique how he empathizes unless they've lost the same. Everything in my post was correct; I'm so sick of this right-wing strategy of trying to appear to be the ones who care about troops even though they constantly send them to die, or disparage them if they speak out against Trump, or fight them if they're veterans in the Capitol Police. Fuck them and fuck making arguments on their behalf as if they deserve it.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

10 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

Far as I'm concerned, nobody gets to critique how he empathizes unless they've lost the same. 

 

I can barely put into words how so very angry the sheer insensitivity to the nuances of human grief this statement displays has made me.

[Ghost_MH]

2 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

Bro, you're being roped in by people who are being dishonest with why they're "outraged," making an argument for them as if they're speaking in good faith. 

 

The man's lost two kids and a wife. Far as I'm concerned, nobody gets to critique how he empathizes unless they've lost the same. Everything in my post was correct; I'm so sick of this right-wing strategy of trying to appear to be the ones who care about troops even though they constantly send them to die, or disparage them if they speak out against Trump, or fight them if they're veterans in the Capitol Police. Fuck them and fuck making arguments on their behalf as if they deserve it.

 

I'm pretty sure Biden's point here was that even if you did "lose the same" it doesn't really matter because it's not actually the same. Just because I lost my father and grandmother weeks apart a year and a half ago doesn't mean that I really understand someone else who's "lost the same" because there is no such thing as "the same" here because every person is unique and the hole they leave behind is unique, so there's no real understanding here. Everyone in these situations feels the loss, but the loss is as infinitely unique as it is deep.

[Jason]

4 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

And daughter, and wife.

 

IIRC, the two fathers who complained went straight to Fox News after speaking with Biden.

 

[Kal-El814]

11 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

Far as I'm concerned, nobody gets to critique how he empathizes unless they've lost the same. 

 

What the fuck. I don't mean to dogpile but seriously, what the fuck.

 

11 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

I can barely put into words how so very angry the sheer insensitivity to the nuances of human grief this statement displays has made me.

 

I don't get it at all.

[SaysWho?]

8 hours ago, Jason said:

 

 

The reaction heard round the world.

[MarSolo]

Apparently they’re the right wing crazies who think Biden is an illegitimate president as well. I saw some Facebook post that was apparently the mother of one of the slain being “quoted” ranting about how Trump is still president and that Biden is a crook.

 

Hey dumbass, go to Mar-a-Lago and see if Trump will console you then. He won’t even give you an audience, and if he did, he’d spend the whole time comparing your loss to how no President in history was treated worse than him. 

[ThreePi]

Not quite sure I understand the backlash to @SaysWho? statement, although perhaps a bit blunt.  As long as he's being sincere, criticizing Biden because he didn't empathize the "right way" seems pretty low.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

33 minutes ago, ThreePi said:

Not quite sure I understand the backlash to @SaysWho? statement, although perhaps a bit blunt.  As long as he's being sincere, criticizing Biden because he didn't empathize the "right way" seems pretty low.

 

The notion that a person experiencing grief -- forget about this particular context -- cannot critique the way another chooses to to empathize/console/whatever unless that grieving person experiences the identical level of loss as the one providing the consolation is so far beyond the pale that I don't know where to begin.

[Keyser_Soze]

[stepee]

I took slam’s comments as being directed towards right wing pundits, not towards people receiving consolation from Biden. So, quite a different context since he’s not talking about how people grieve, only how third parties criticize.

[SaysWho?]

55 minutes ago, ThreePi said:

Not quite sure I understand the backlash to @SaysWho? statement, although perhaps a bit blunt.  As long as he's being sincere, criticizing Biden because he didn't empathize the "right way" seems pretty low.

Exactly. And in this case, it’s entirely political, which is beneath contempt.
 

I fully admit my emotions got the better of me last night, but I’m angry. I’m angry at politicizing a man who’s been through loss few can possibly relate to as he  navigates waters few possibly can because some want to continue to make a baseless point regarding Democrats and the military. I’ve followed his family history long before it became more commonly known, and his words helped me through my own loss and helped me help others. To that point, it encouraged me to partake in mental health awareness in my community because damn it, I have an actual platform that I can use. And that helped me talk a beloved member here down at one point, which I never wanted to mention publicly because it’s not about me. I realize I’m a partisan, but this was personal to me.

How do you critique how a man who’s lost two kids and a wife consoles another by running to Fox? You want to talk about the layers of complexity of grief (true!): Biden nearly broke down during a vp debate recollecting his late wife and daughter. And now these people go after his remaining living child relentlessly! 

It seems many here absolutely understand how low it is to make this a story. If that gets me erased from the board, so be it. Many here sincerely have been through deep loss, but that’s not what is upsetting me about the headline and why this is a story.

[stepee]

I don’t think people are upset at the point you are trying to make, I think there is a disconnect between how you are phrasing your point and how it’s being read by some people.

 

Crazy maga parents who have experienced legitimate loss but then go on and exploit their loss towards their crazy political agenda (which is most likely based around wanting other people to suffer) is kind of a delicate matter to discuss.

[PaladinSolo]

Should have gone with the tried and true, "They knew what they signed up for."

[Guest]

@SaysWho?is my guy, full stop.

 

My comments were an attempt to expand beyond the politics of this particular situation in response to @MarSolo’s point that he was just trying to relate to them.

 

I’ve unfortunately had to wade through some pretty intense grieving situations with people I’m very close to (I know some of you saw my recent post about a close friend who had a baby die, for example) and it set me on a path to better understand grief itself and how people process these situations.

Everybody is so unique in how they grieve and what sorts of things can be triggering of really intense emotion. A very common one is when people try to explain their empathy to the grieving person, trying to draw parallels between their situations and yours. Empathy isn’t explaining how you know how the person feels, but treating them with care because you understand how they feel. Too often we feel that pull to explain that we know how they feel and it honestly just isn’t helpful.

 

Hopefully that makes sense

[SaysWho?]

16 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

@SaysWho?is my guy, full stop.

 

My comments were an attempt to expand beyond the politics of this particular situation in response to @MarSolo’s point that he was just trying to relate to them.

 

I’ve unfortunately had to wade through some pretty intense grieving situations with people I’m very close to (I know some of you saw my recent post about a close friend who had a baby die, for example) and it set me on a path to better understand grief itself and how people process these situations.

Everybody is so unique in how they grieve and what sorts of things can be triggering of really intense emotion. A very common one is when people try to explain their empathy to the grieving person, trying to draw parallels between their situations and yours. Empathy isn’t explaining how you know how the person feels, but treating them with care because you understand how they feel. Too often we feel that pull to explain that we know how they feel and it honestly just isn’t helpful.

 

Hopefully that makes sense

 

It makes perfect sense. I also understand that no one here is speaking in bad faith. It's why I wanted to wait to respond to Wade because the whole situation makes me REALLY upset and I'd probably have checked myself a ticket out of the board if I said anything else last night at that moment.  

 

Part of why I felt upset is putting aside any vote he made or bill he helped pass and focusing just on his personal history, I felt comfort in other areas of my life in his words to parents/spouses of dead members of the armed forces in the video I posted. And one of the issues that made me reconsider how I approach people grieving is when he recalls his wife and daughter dying, he said he "resented" when someone would say, "Joe, I know how you feel." It got laughter and applause at that moment because the audience understood, and the point was, "You knew they meant well but you knew they didn't have a damn clue." That's his main point and a way he connects. He probably understands that he can't know exactly how they feel, but he knows the depths of a child pre-deceasing you and the guilt of pursuing someone else after your spouse dies, and that it's a grief so deep that it's not something someone can say they definitively understand. And I'm being truthful when I say how he came out of tragedy and consoles others who are suffering influenced me in real life.

 

So when people run to right-wing media to complain, argh, it makes me really upset. It strikes me as a continuation of the golden oldie about the myth of Democrats' feelings about the military, and using this as a means to it is a low blow.

[Kal-El814]

6 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

The notion that a person experiencing grief -- forget about this particular context -- cannot critique the way another chooses to to empathize/console/whatever unless that grieving person experiences the identical level of loss as the one providing the consolation is so far beyond the pale that I don't know where to begin.

This was my reaction as well. I love @SaysWho? and assumed he meant well; as I said, I intended no shots. That said the sentiment as written really rubs me the wrong way. My best friend’s wife was killed in a car accident about a decade ago and I’ve had friends who have lost their parents, siblings, etc. in tragic circumstances. I’m not generally a person who gets angry but for whatever reason hearing people speculate about why other people weren’t grieving correctly or grieving enough or grieving long enough made and still makes me see red almost immediately. That comment reminded me of that. Seeing what he wrote later helped contextualize it. 

 

EDIT - bad typing

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

 

 

[Anathema-]

Attacking Biden's strengths and attempting to portray them as a weakness using his outspoken political opponents as props (I believe one of them thinks trump won the election), especially while obscuring that fact, is definitionally a right-wing hatchet job. A political piece masquerading as news.  The only difference is that this on is A1 on the NYT, one of their five most important stories of the day. 

[Anathema-]

I like how people defend the NYT by saying shit like how important their climate coverage has been. Fat lot of good it's done. 

[SuperSpreader]

5 hours ago, Anathema- said:

I like how people defend the NYT by saying shit like how important their climate coverage has been. Fat lot of good it's done. 

It's New York! It's important!! GrEaTeSt cItY iN tHe WoRlD!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

jk I love you NY but you're full of shit. Special shout-out to San Francisco.