Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 My indifference to this issue could not be more palpable: whatever is the ultimate solution is fine with me. Progressive. Regressive. Forgive it all. Forgive some of it. Keep the principal, forgive the interest. Whatever. This doesn't even crack my Top 20 issues to be addressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Massdriver said: Why is forcing the middle class to pay for rich kids to go to college progressive? You could say the same thing about any level of education; why should the middle class family of a 10th grader pay school taxes so a wealthy family’s 11th grader can go to school for 'free'? Because if you are going to assert that public education is a worthwhile investment/resource that should be ‘freely’ available, then everyone should pay their fair share and everyone should have access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 34 minutes ago, Chris- said: You could say the same thing about any level of education; why should the middle class family of a 10th grader pay school taxes so a wealthy family’s 11th grader can go to school for free? Because if you are going to assert that public education is a worthwhile investment/resource that should be ‘freely’ available, then everyone should pay their fair share and everyone should have access. Everyone should have access to whatever degree or college in the country, regardless of the tuition cost or inflation? What is the opportunity cost for free tuition when there are so many other areas the poor and middle class need help? Why can’t we favor a progressive system that pays for the poor to go to college and helps them middle class? The structure and governing body of a university is fundamentally different than grade school. I can be for helping people go to college without lazy proposals that pretend like there is an infinite supply of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Rich people aren't gonna take the government's money to go to a state school. They will still use mommy and daddy's to go to a fancy-pants private school. Imagine rolling up to your country club, with everyone knowing that you went to a state school just like a pleb. You'd never hear the end of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Somewhere reality is going to come crashing down. The costs of Warren and Sander’s proposals costs tax money which means multiple tax bills has to pass both the senate and the House. Battles have to be chosen carefully. If you can help more people for less money, we should do it. That’s what progressive policy is all about. Modern monetary theory is false so taxation for these policies is necessary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, thewhyteboar said: Rich people aren't gonna take the government's money to go to a state school. They will still use mommy and daddy's to go to a fancy-pants private school. Imagine rolling up to your country club, with everyone knowing that you went to a state school just like a pleb. You'd never hear the end of it. Rich people go to public universities in Texas all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Compromise: College is free, but there will be a limited number of scholarships granted based on how well you do in high school. If you didn't score well enough, you can always go to trade school, or join the military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, thewhyteboar said: Rich people aren't gonna take the government's money to go to a state school. They will still use mommy and daddy's to go to a fancy-pants private school. Imagine rolling up to your country club, with everyone knowing that you went to a state school just like a pleb. You'd never hear the end of it. Rich people go to public universities all the time. IDK what you are thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Some of this money could be used to make our high schools vocational hubs and better launching pads into public universities or into careers. We could have a track system and could stop pretending everyone is going to get a 4 year degree, or even that it’s desirable. Most of these students we will all be paying for will drop out if we pretend like everyone is the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 the krassensteins are running his campaign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 https://berniesanders.com/debt/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Doesn’t matter what their proposals are for two reasons: 1) democrats will not have the senate anytime soon. Republicans won’t vote for any of this stuff no matter what. 2) presidential policy proposals are a statement of priorities and won’t generally be enacted by congress without significant changes, even just looking at things at an intraparty level. All all that said, cancel all loans, fund accredited state 4 year undergraduate schools and community colleges adequately on a per capita basis(so there is no cost to students just like high schools) while tying graduation rates and dropout rates to accreditation status (so you don’t fill schools with warm bodies). End student loans, graduate and professional school students can get need based pell grants, with inflation capped limits. (And other funding sources as well) and changing high school to vocation or college track schools is hilarious. My wife went to the richest public school district in the state of Ohio. A slight exaggeration, but I bet they had more Ivy League grads than trade school grads. And if you think for a goddamn minute that a two track system won’t be used to further entrench the racial caste system we have now, well, I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 There is massive value to keeping public policy simple and not turning it into bureaucratic nightmare. Free tuition college for all is clean and simple. It'd probably likely made trades more attractive since universities would have to raise standards since they can't use money or debt to gate keep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 21 hours ago, CitizenVectron said: The dumb thing about Beto's idea is that it would only be applied to non-military families. That's like only charging educational taxes to people without children. I am 100% in favour of a "War Tax." Actually, isn't that basically what the income tax is? That doesn't seem analogous to me. I imagine the reasoning behind only non-vets is that vets already paid their dues by service and shouldn't be taxed again. People with children didn't pay their dues for educational costs so it's not analogous to not tax them for education. 14 hours ago, mclumber1 said: Compromise: College is free, but there will be a limited number of scholarships granted based on how well you do in high school. If you didn't score well enough, you can always go to trade school, or join the military. I don't think that's a good plan given the context of testing which tends to favor the wealthy and white. Even if it started out with a neutral effort, it would ultimately be gamed by the people who have the means to do so. It seems more effective to budget for everyone and therefore un-gameable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 LOL at anyone thinking that statistically speaking student debt loan forgiveness would help more rich people than poor/working/middle class people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 BIDEN LIKES SPAGHETTI! SCANDAL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 17 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Doesn’t matter what their proposals are for two reasons: 1) democrats will not have the senate anytime soon. Republicans won’t vote for any of this stuff no matter what. 2) presidential policy proposals are a statement of priorities and won’t generally be enacted by congress without significant changes, even just looking at things at an intraparty level. All all that said, cancel all loans, fund accredited state 4 year undergraduate schools and community colleges adequately on a per capita basis(so there is no cost to students just like high schools) while tying graduation rates and dropout rates to accreditation status (so you don’t fill schools with warm bodies). End student loans, graduate and professional school students can get need based pell grants, with inflation capped limits. (And other funding sources as well) and changing high school to vocation or college track schools is hilarious. My wife went to the richest public school district in the state of Ohio. A slight exaggeration, but I bet they had more Ivy League grads than trade school grads. And if you think for a goddamn minute that a two track system won’t be used to further entrench the racial caste system we have now, well, I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Why are you so pessimistic about Dems chance of taking the Senate in 2020? Like they are at worst 40% right now and I think they end up being significantly higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 23 minutes ago, Jose said: Why are you so pessimistic about Dems chance of taking the Senate in 2020? Like they are at worst 40% right now and I think they end up being significantly higher. I can't get upset if my expectations are rock bottom. But I see only 5, maybe 6, competitive races, one loss, and one win. And some of the competitive races are against well known incumbents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: I can't get upset if my expectations are rock bottom. But I see only 5, maybe 6, competitive races, one loss, and one win. And some of the competitive races are against well known incumbents. You assume Dougie boy is gonna lose? We shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 It doesn't help Dems that some of their best candidates aren't running for senate such as Beto and Abrams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Massdriver said: It doesn't help Dems that some of their best candidates aren't running for senate such as Beto and Abrams. There's a candidate running who used to serve who did very well in a red District in 2018. She's the woman who had that fantastic doors ad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, SaysWho? said: There's a candidate running who used to serve who did very well in a red District in 2018. She's the woman who had that fantastic doors ad. What's her name? I know who you're talking about but no one knows her in Texas yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 19 minutes ago, Jose said: You assume Dougie boy is gonna lose? We shall see. Unless he's up against Roy Moore, he will lose. Against him I give even odds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Unless he's up against Roy Moore, he will lose. Against him I give even odds Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Doug Jones just needs to switch parties and he'll get 80% of the vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 We're going into a presidential year thats likely to see the highest turn out in a very very long time, with a consistently unpopular GOP president, I think a lot more GOPers could fall than people think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/joe-biden-didn-t-just-compromise-segregationists-he-fought-their-n1021626 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 3 hours ago, Massdriver said: What's her name? I know who you're talking about but no one knows her in Texas yet. MJ Hegar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, SaysWho? said: MJ Hegar I’ve read some articles about her. I think she has potential, but it’s hard to believe she will do as well as Beto would have. I look forward to seeing her campaign and hope she doesn’t have too much of a primary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 3 hours ago, RedSoxFan9 said: haha Quote Caban’s platform marks a departure from the traditional “tough on crime” stance that many liberals have abandoned in recent years. She has said she wants to stop incarcerating poor people which includes not prosecuting pimps and prostitutes, people avoiding subway fares, recreational drug-related crimes, or resisting arrest crimes and achieving a “population zero” in the city’s prisons. Her views are shaped by her time as a public defender, telling Jacobin Magazine that she witnessed a system that had “taken public health issues and punted them to a criminal justice system”. https://heavy.com/news/2019/06/tiffany-caban/ Pimpin ain't easy when you gotta pimp slap those hos. Pimpin underage woman ain't nothing but making that chedda. Who cares if a lot of them are abused? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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