General Gaming Neither Sony nor Microsoft seems particularly interested in actually launching the next generation this autumn

[Brian]

Give me Demon Souls at launch. 

[JPDunks4]

With this gen, if you are a console only gamer, Xbox's Back Comparability features at least make it worth while to invest if you have a sizable back log on Xbox.

 

I have hundreds of games I still want to play from this gen that I haven't, and with the added HDR and their work to increase resolution and framerates of other games, it still makes sense for me to get the Series X at launch.  

[TwinIon]

I don't get the impression that either company is moving slowly. Sony is acting like the reigning champ, expecting strong sales to carry over to the next gen. There was a report not too long ago that Sony had recently doubled their initial production run for the PS5 from 5 to 10 million. That run was to take them through March, at which point the PS4 had sold ~6 million.

 

Meanwhile, Microsoft has held a whole slew of events around the Series X, though their cross-gen strategy and focus on Gamepass does obscure the immediacy of next-gen.

 

 

Considering the pandemic, I feel like everything is pretty much going along normally, except for the lack of a price. We're getting beyond the point where I'd expect a price to have been set, though I can imagine that it's one of those things that they're never entirely sure of, especially with the pandemic.

 

[crispy4000]

2 hours ago, legend said:

 

I definitely would not rather that. The hardware sets a precedent for the whole generation. Games will come with time.

Times have changed.  Launch hardware doesn’t set the precedent for a whole generation.  At least not in the way it used to.

 

This gen both consoles’ libraries underwhelmed until shortly before the PS4 Pro arrived.  If I’m supposed to jump in early, I want a better reason to than we had this time.  And I question if that’s going to happen with COVID, UE5 still not being ready, etc.

 

Hardware weaknesses never stopped me from enjoying good games built around their limitations.  I’d take that any day over an expensive machine without enough killer apps to justify the price tag.
 

Plus if Sony or Microsoft do lowball some things, we now know they’ll attempt to rectify it with later revisions.

[legend]

2 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

Times have changed.  Launch hardware doesn’t set the precedent for a whole generation.  At least not in the way it used to.

 

This gen both consoles’ libraries underwhelmed until shortly before the PS4 Pro arrived.  If I’m supposed to jump in early, I want a better reason to than we had this time.  And I question if that’s going to happen with COVID, UE5 still not being ready, etc.

 

Hardware weaknesses never stopped me from enjoying good games built around their limitations.  I’d take that any day over an expensive machine without enough killer apps to justify the price tag.
 

Plus if Sony or Microsoft do lowball some things, we now know they’ll attempt to rectify it with later revisions.

 

My reasoning is independent from when you, as a personal user, get a console. Even if you wait, you will have implicitly benefited from a better hardware baseline. And being able to release better consoles midstream doesn't change the core issue with the initially released consoles being the baseline performance that developers will have to work around for the rest of the generation.

 

Better hardware won't stop good games from being good, but it may make it possible to make things you couldn't with lesser hardware.

 

And fortunately, one of the most exciting things is the great new storage options that will now be a baseline. If the consoles only got great storage capability on a midstream refresh, it would have dramatically affected how much games would be able to be built around that feature. I'm so fucking happy they went with this stuff out of the gate.

[number305]

46 minutes ago, legend said:

 

My reasoning is independent from when you, as a personal user, get a console. Even if you wait, you will have implicitly benefited from a better hardware baseline. And being able to release better consoles midstream doesn't change the core issue with the initially released consoles being the baseline performance that developers will have to work around for the rest of the generation.

 

Better hardware won't stop good games from being good, but it may make it possible to make things you couldn't with lesser hardware.

 

And fortunately, one of the most exciting things is the great new storage options that will now be a baseline. If the consoles only got great storage capability on a midstream refresh, it would have dramatically affected how much games would be able to be built around that feature. I'm so fucking happy they went with this stuff out of the gate.

Very true.  And one of the big things in the refresh will be MORE storage.  I have no doubt before the end of this gen we will see a 200GB game.  Possibly Starfield could be the first at that size.  Not many AAA games are going to fit on the super fast hard drives of either system.

[crispy4000]

2 hours ago, legend said:

 

My reasoning is independent from when you, as a personal user, get a console. Even if you wait, you will have implicitly benefited from a better hardware baseline. And being able to release better consoles midstream doesn't change the core issue with the initially released consoles being the baseline performance that developers will have to work around for the rest of the generation.

 

Better hardware won't stop good games from being good, but it may make it possible to make things you couldn't with lesser hardware.

 

And fortunately, one of the most exciting things is the great new storage options that will now be a baseline. If the consoles only got great storage capability on a midstream refresh, it would have dramatically affected how much games would be able to be built around that feature. I'm so fucking happy they went with this stuff out of the gate.

I’ll argue none of that.  I’m glad the SSD is standard.  It’s not like there has to be a choice between good games and solid hardware choices.

 

I just find it hard to get all that excited about when we may not see many games taking full advantage of the SSD (ie: UE5 demo) until closer to mid cycle.  There’s also lingering questions about how performant base hardware will be with RT, and what sacrifices will come there.

[legend]

2 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

I’ll argue none of that.  I’m glad the SSD is standard.  It’s not like there has to be a choice between good games and solid hardware choices.

 

I just find it hard to get all that excited about when we may not see many games taking full advantage of the SSD (ie: UE5 demo) until closer to mid cycle.  There’s also lingering questions about how performant base hardware will be with RT, and what sacrifices will come there.

 

Yeah I totally sympathize with that. It will be some time before we really see the benefit, but I'm very excited for what this gen can be.

[gamer.tv]

13 hours ago, JPDunks4 said:

With this gen, if you are a console only gamer, Xbox's Back Comparability features at least make it worth while to invest if you have a sizable back log on Xbox.

 

I have hundreds of games I still want to play from this gen that I haven't, and with the added HDR and their work to increase resolution and framerates of other games, it still makes sense for me to get the Series X at launch.  

I don’t know whether the ability to play old games should be a selling point for a new console.

[Keyser_Soze]

22 minutes ago, gamer.tv said:

I don’t know whether the ability to play old games should be a selling point for a new console.

 

I feel like we ask / say this every gen.

[JPDunks4]

6 hours ago, gamer.tv said:

I don’t know whether the ability to play old games should be a selling point for a new console.

Why not?  I have hundreds of games I own on Xbox that I still need to play through.  I know I will be buying an Xbox Series X at some point, whether it would've been at launch or sometime after.

 

If my choice is, do I want it at launch or can I wait for some bigger new next gen games to drop, the fact it can play mu full library of current Xbox One games, and play them better than they play on my Xbox One, why is that not an added selling point? 

 

When I bought my PC with a 2080ti, it's not like I didn't also buy it to improve the performance of all my existing games I was currently playing or needed to play on PC.  Sure I also got it so that I can play future games with better performance, but I also loved I got better performance out of all the current library of games I had as well.

 

I don't get this Console Gamer mentality of, who cares about he hundreds of amazing old games I invested in and still need to play.  Let's not allow the fact this new console can play those old games with added HDR, better load times, and possibly better resolutions and frame rates than my current Xbox One X to be a factor in my decision to buy this new Console.

[XxEvil AshxX]

7 hours ago, gamer.tv said:

I don’t know whether the ability to play old games should be a selling point for a new console.

 

If Nintendo did it, i'd be buying a lot more Nintendo games.

 

In fact, it's the only reason i kept my Wii, as it still plays my old Gamecube games.

[gamer.tv]

1 hour ago, JPDunks4 said:

Why not?  I have hundreds of games I own on Xbox that I still need to play through.  I know I will be buying an Xbox Series X at some point, whether it would've been at launch or sometime after.

 

If my choice is, do I want it at launch or can I wait for some bigger new next gen games to drop, the fact it can play mu full library of current Xbox One games, and play them better than they play on my Xbox One, why is that not an added selling point? 

 

When I bought my PC with a 2080ti, it's not like I didn't also buy it to improve the performance of all my existing games I was currently playing or needed to play on PC.  Sure I also got it so that I can play future games with better performance, but I also loved I got better performance out of all the current library of games I had as well.

 

I don't get this Console Gamer mentality of, who cares about he hundreds of amazing old games I invested in and still need to play.  Let's not allow the fact this new console can play those old games with added HDR, better load times, and possibly better resolutions and frame rates than my current Xbox One X to be a factor in my decision to buy this new Console.

It just isn’t a selling point for me, just a nice option. More importantly, if I did have a huge number of previous hen games to play (that I wanted to), I suppose I wouldn’t just play on the console I’m assuming I already own.

[ShreddieMercury]

For me, both Microsoft and Sony have failed to demonstrate how these updgrades will actually produce exciting new game experiences.  Both consoles seem to be primarily focused on visuals and improved loading times, which are great, but those factors alone don't really necessitate a purchase in my opinion.  Unlike the Switch (and most Nintendo systems), which has a specific form factor that differentiates it from the last Nintendo console, the pitch here seems to be that you can play the same type of games you're already playing... but they'll look and sound better! 

 

There also doesn't seem to be a compelling launch title that could push people over the edge.  If you're really into Halo, you can just play Infinite on the Xbox you have now, and on Sony's side you'll get some smaller launch experiments (the Resoguns and Knacks) and DLC for Spider-Man.  None of that seems to be worth the asking price for a new console if you already have a PS4, Xbox or PC.  I think that the race for higher frame rates and resolutions is ultimately a losing battle until we see creative ways to evolve the actual design of the games themselves.  At this point, outside of a few boundary pushing indie games and the odd few incredible exclusives, we've been playing games that were templated 10-15 years ago, and I don't really care how good they look if it's the same experience over and over.

[legend]

9 hours ago, ShreddieMercuryRising said:

For me, both Microsoft and Sony have failed to demonstrate how these updgrades will actually produce exciting new game experiences.  Both consoles seem to be primarily focused on visuals and improved loading times, which are great, but those factors alone don't really necessitate a purchase in my opinion.  Unlike the Switch (and most Nintendo systems), which has a specific form factor that differentiates it from the last Nintendo console, the pitch here seems to be that you can play the same type of games you're already playing... but they'll look and sound better! 

 

There also doesn't seem to be a compelling launch title that could push people over the edge.  If you're really into Halo, you can just play Infinite on the Xbox you have now, and on Sony's side you'll get some smaller launch experiments (the Resoguns and Knacks) and DLC for Spider-Man.  None of that seems to be worth the asking price for a new console if you already have a PS4, Xbox or PC.  I think that the race for higher frame rates and resolutions is ultimately a losing battle until we see creative ways to evolve the actual design of the games themselves.  At this point, outside of a few boundary pushing indie games and the odd few incredible exclusives, we've been playing games that were templated 10-15 years ago, and I don't really care how good they look if it's the same experience over and over.

 

It's not just visuals that core tech brings (even though I don't think that's nothing); it's creating more complex worlds in which to immerse yourself.

 

If you don't really care for that kind of stuff that's one thing, but the game worlds of today are leagues better than  they were of 15 years ago and there is still a lot of room for them to improve.

 

To put it another way, I think there are very few devs who would say they wouldn't care to have more compute power. If that's the case, I'd rather empower them than limit them.

[maddux4163]

On 8/4/2020 at 11:09 AM, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Yep, have no games and just be hyped by playing a really impressive demo over and over (Like MGS2 back in the day)

I paid $50 for that Demo, they threw in Zone of the Enders with it too though. 

[Remarkableriots]

On 8/4/2020 at 1:41 PM, number305 said:

Very true.  And one of the big things in the refresh will be MORE storage.  I have no doubt before the end of this gen we will see a 200GB game.  Possibly Starfield could be the first at that size.  Not many AAA games are going to fit on the super fast hard drives of either system.

They will have expanded external storage available. 

[Keyser_Soze]

20 minutes ago, Remarkableriots said:

They will have expanded external storage available. 

 

External storage won't take advantage of the bells and whistles of the the PS5 internal storage.

[Remarkableriots]

2 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

External storage won't take advantage of the bells and whistles of the the PS5 internal storage.

It will also have a dedicated expansion port to increase storage space where you can install an M2 SSD. 

[eggydoo]

On 8/4/2020 at 3:41 PM, number305 said:

Very true.  And one of the big things in the refresh will be MORE storage.  I have no doubt before the end of this gen we will see a 200GB game.  Possibly Starfield could be the first at that size.  Not many AAA games are going to fit on the super fast hard drives of either system.

Call of duty says hello

[number305]

7 hours ago, eggydoo said:

Call of duty says hello

Ha I saw that. I obviously shot too low. Do I hear 300GB?