General Gaming Coming exclusively to [insert console]* ___ *and PC

[Spork3245]

11 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Consoles used to be where you had to go to play 70%+ of major releases.  Today it’s less than 10% of them.

 

So I’d actually say the PC’s reversed course at this point.  Like the consoles now, the biggest draw of its library used to be exclusive games like Starcraft, Unreal, Counter-Strike, etc.  Now it’s become the catch all platform with the broadest library.

 

What is ironically implied with ”console exclusive” now says everything about how much the PC market has boomed.

I’m old enough to remember PC having a ton of exclusives we would throw in console-plebe faces  

[SaysWho?]

31 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

I’m old enough to remember PC having a ton of exclusives we would throw in console-plebe faces  

 

I gotta say that I was excited that Grim Fandango finally came to a console in 2015.

[Rodimus]

Limited Run Games is a reason I buy PS4 games. I think it is easy to say I own more games published by Limited Run Games that any other publisher.

[AbsolutSurgen]

16 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Consoles used to be where you had to go to play 70%+ of major releases.  Today it’s less than 10% of them.

 

So I’d actually say the PC’s reversed course at this point.  Like the consoles now, the biggest draw of its library used to be exclusive games like Starcraft, Unreal, Counter-Strike, etc.  Now it’s become the catch all platform with the broadest library.

That is simply not true, at least once the C64/Apple 2 computers launched.  There have always been a significant amount of "major releases" on non-console platforms.  IMHO, the main difference between then and today is that cross-platform games were relatively rarer in the day.  

 

16 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

What is ironically implied with ”console exclusive” now says everything about how much the PC market has boomed.

The PC market has always been very big.  As games have become significantly more expensive to produce, game developers/publishers have needed to hit as many platforms as possible.  The computer gaming market has ALWAYS been big, albeit not as big as consoles.

[Bacon]

I miss the days before I had a gaming PC. I generally enjoy playing more on console. It is more a more laid back experience. You generally popped a game in and went to town. I didn't have to worry about any setting except subtitles. Everything was out of my control and I liked that. Now everything needs to be controlled by me. I must fiddle with settings until everything is optimal for almost every game. If I don't then I just feel like I am wasting my PC's capability. 

[Mr.Vic20]

https://www.pcgamer.com/last-of-us-part-2-pc-rumours/?utm_content=buffer8e726&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertw#comment-jump

 

[crispy4000]

2 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

That is simply not true, at least once the C64/Apple 2 computers launched.  There have always been a significant amount of "major releases" on non-console platforms.  IMHO, the main difference between then and today is that cross-platform games were relatively rarer in the day.  

 

Well if you want to back to the 80’s and perhaps early 90’s, sure, many if not most big releases were PC exclusive.  But yes, I’d say for a good solid two+ decades, most major publishers focused on consoles as the place for most all their games.  Many publishers didn’t port to PC.  Many did a bad job of it.  Both especially in the East, but by no means limited to it.

 

2 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

The PC market has always been very big.  As games have become significantly more expensive to produce, game developers/publishers have needed to hit as many platforms as possible.  The computer gaming market has ALWAYS been big, albeit not as big as consoles.

 

Its always been there, yes.  Always as healthy as today?  Nope not at all.  It wasn’t until Steam became ubiquitous that many publishers stopped being scared of pirates and/or putting controller centric games there.  There was a good portion of time when WoW pretty much defined the PC in the minds of publishers.

 

The vast majority of PC games now are controller centric.  It’s not so much that the PC gaming has always been big.  It’s that the bigger console audience has gradually been transitioning to it.  

 

PC is winning over more console players, and developers, than ever before.  I think it’s the strongest it’s ever been, with CRPGs back and healthy as well.

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

14 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Well if you want to back to the 80’s and perhaps early 90’s, sure, many if not most big releases were PC exclusive.  But yes, I’d say for a good solid two+ decades, most major publishers focused on consoles as the place for most all their games.  Many publishers didn’t port to PC.  Many did a bad job of it.  Both especially in the East, but by no means limited to it.

What two decades are you talking about?  I don't remember a time where there wasn't a robust computer gaming scene.  I do remember times where lots of Japanese developers were console specific, and lots of American developers were more PC focused.  If I knew what years you were referencing, it would be easier to discuss.

14 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

Its always been there, yes.  Always as healthy as today?  Nope not at all.  It wasn’t until Steam became ubiquitous that many publishers stopped being scared of pirates and/or putting controller centric games there.  There was a good portion of time when WoW pretty much defined the PC in the minds of publishers.

I don't remember a time that WoW defined the PC.

14 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

The vast majority of PC games now are controller centric.  It’s not so much that the PC gaming has always been big.  It’s that the bigger console audience has gradually been transitioning to it.  

 

PC is winning over more console players, and developers, than ever before.  I think it’s the strongest it’s ever been, with CRPGs back and healthy as well.

 

Is Dota controller centric?  Fortnite? League of Legends?  PUBG? WoW? Countrerstrike? Rainbow 6 Siege? Destiny 2? Team Fortress 2? Minecraft? Roblox? Overwatch? Apex Legends? Hearthstone? World of Tanks? Diablo?

I don't think it is fair to say that the majority of PC games are controller centric, so many of the biggest/most played games on PC are primarily (or better with) mouse and KB.

[Xbob42]

I think a lot of this comes down to console gamer bias, where if they don't care about a certain genre defining or massively popular game, it basically doesn't exist to them or is only mentioned in passing. Ultima happened years and years before Dragon Quest, but any Dragon Quest retrospective will start with how Dragon Quest defined turn-based RPGs. Those that do mention Ultima will generally do so with a quick, dismissive nod, but rarely more. We talk about big franchises, but the biggest games are often those either exclusive to PC, or built for PC first, like League of Legends, Roblox, Minecraft, or back in the day, the Sims, or Call of Duty, which originated on PC alongside tons of big Western developers. PC gaming has been ridiculously huge for decades, and there are billions of PC users. Obviously at some point people like to get real precise and finnicky about what constitutes a "gaming PC," but even more than that, people love their gatekeeping on what constitutes a game, or gaming.

The goalposts are ever-shifting, the definitions so fluid or always conveniently defined in favor of one platform over the other. In the end, what has gained popularity is high-end PC gaming, but general PC gaming has been doing fine for decades. Maybe not in your house, maybe not even in your country, but in places like Europe and Asia, PC gaming has been quite important. Hell, over 300 million people game on PCs in China alone. Your individual view on how you perceive the platform to be has no tangible impact on what the situation actually is.

One final thing is that despite there being a lot of mega-popular games on PC, as a whole there's a huuuuge fucking variety of games on the platform, and so it's normal for there to be a smaller playerbase on any given title that isn't a super hit because people gravitate to what they want to play, not just what is popular. I spent all last week playing itch.io horror games priced between free and a few bucks, and had a fucking blast. Do what gives you the most fun. Unlike poor Bacon, who is caught in the loop of optimal performance and tweaking despite not liking it.

[TwinIon]

I think the shift that people are seeing is that the PC and console markets are overlapping far more than they used to. It's becoming more and more common to play games that have traditionally been seen as console games on the PC, and visa versa. So we're seeing games like Gears or HZD go to the PC, Minecraft and Fortnight on consoles, and more and more games like Destiny that launch everywhere.

 

 

I think it's fair to say that PC gaming has largely been defined by PC only titles. MMOs and MOBAs make up a huge portion of overall PC market. Strategy and simulation games are often PC only. It's hard to find any numbers, but it seems like world wide the revenue from free to play PC games is roughly the size of the entire console market.

 

However, those markets have largely been separate. Yeah, MMOs have and continue to make a ton of money, but their continuous nature kind of exempts them from the regular news cycle that dominates mainstream gaming discussion. Now we're at a point where a big, traditional AAA game like Cyberpunk will sell roughly as many copies for the PC as it will on the Xbox.

 

[crispy4000]

8 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

What two decades are you talking about?  I don't remember a time where there wasn't a robust computer gaming scene.  I do remember times where lots of Japanese developers were console specific, and lots of American developers were more PC focused.  If I knew what years you were referencing, it would be easier to discuss.

 

Mid PS1 - mid 360 I’d say is when consoles got the predominant focus.  The West and East were both on board with consoles, not just one of the two mainly.  Microsoft also shifted their own gaming focus away from the PC in that period.

 

Doesn't mean PC wasn’t robust in other ways or didn’t have its own hit exclusives during that time.

 

I suppose it could be argued the industry was more console oriented in the 16-bit era or even 8-bit, to some degree.  Kid audiences were the bigger target audience for gaming in general back then.

 

8 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

 

I don't remember a time that WoW defined the PC.

 

 “In the minds of publishers.”  There was a MMO fever craze until they mostly failed at taking on Blizzard.  

 

8 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

 

Is Dota controller centric?  Fortnite? League of Legends?  PUBG? WoW? Countrerstrike? Rainbow 6 Siege? Destiny 2? Team Fortress 2? Minecraft? Roblox? Overwatch? Apex Legends? Hearthstone? World of Tanks? Diablo?

 

I don't think it is fair to say that the majority of PC games are controller centric, so many of the biggest/most played games on PC are primarily (or better with) mouse and KB.

 

Indie games, Eastern games and/or console ports have shifted it in favor of controller oriented IMO.

 

PC still gets plenty of K&M centric games, but since the industry at large designs around controllers, and PC gets almost everything by default now (yay!), we’ve seen a shift in what’s expected on PC.  So many indie games especially give a ‘plays best with controller’ notice on boot up.

[crispy4000]

7 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

I think a lot of this comes down to console gamer bias, where if they don't care about a certain genre defining or massively popular game, it basically doesn't exist to them or is only mentioned in passing. Ultima happened years and years before Dragon Quest, but any Dragon Quest retrospective will start with how Dragon Quest defined turn-based RPGs. Those that do mention Ultima will generally do so with a quick, dismissive nod, but rarely more. We talk about big franchises, but the biggest games are often those either exclusive to PC, or built for PC first, like League of Legends, Roblox, Minecraft, or back in the day, the Sims, or Call of Duty, which originated on PC alongside tons of big Western developers. PC gaming has been ridiculously huge for decades, and there are billions of PC users. Obviously at some point people like to get real precise and finnicky about what constitutes a "gaming PC," but even more than that, people love their gatekeeping on what constitutes a game, or gaming.

The goalposts are ever-shifting, the definitions so fluid or always conveniently defined in favor of one platform over the other. In the end, what has gained popularity is high-end PC gaming, but general PC gaming has been doing fine for decades. Maybe not in your house, maybe not even in your country, but in places like Europe and Asia, PC gaming has been quite important. Hell, over 300 million people game on PCs in China alone. Your individual view on how you perceive the platform to be has no tangible impact on what the situation actually is.

One final thing is that despite there being a lot of mega-popular games on PC, as a whole there's a huuuuge fucking variety of games on the platform, and so it's normal for there to be a smaller playerbase on any given title that isn't a super hit because people gravitate to what they want to play, not just what is popular. I spent all last week playing itch.io horror games priced between free and a few bucks, and had a fucking blast. Do what gives you the most fun. Unlike poor Bacon, who is caught in the loop of optimal performance and tweaking despite not liking it.

 

I absolutely agree with your take on the international PC market always booming, stance of diversity on the PC today, and a general non-enthusiast audience being the largest traditional part of the PC gaming base

 

In those regions were consoles are popular though, I think you shouidn’t discount how much more console gaming was given the industry’s focus.  It’s still where the most advertising dollars are being spent.  EA’s struggled for a long time to get sports gamers on board with their PC ports.  An era of plastic guitars and extreme sports games almost entirely skipped the PC.  And while CoD, as you said, originated on PC, consoles have been the driving factor behind its megahit status.

 

Which is kind of what makes today so different and exciting for the platform.  PC gets to play kingmaker with so many more indies these days, Minecraft hardly scratches the surface.  It’s now kind of hard to imagine a major gaming design trend that won’t make it there, or won’t originate there in some fashion.  This next gen could also a big moment for PC as a living room box, with console manufactures being more willing to port to it.

[Duderino]

Getting flashbacks of Bungie porting Halo: Combat Evolved to PC a year before Halo 2’s release on console.

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Mid PS1 - mid 360 I’d say is when consoles got the predominant focus.  The West and East were both on board with consoles, not just one of the two mainly.  Microsoft also shifted their own gaming focus away from the PC in that period.

To start, mid-PS1....

PC had:

'97 - Diablo (came out a year later on PSX), Dungeon Keeper, Star Wars X-wing vs. Tie-Fighter, Shadow Warrior, Blood, MDK (came out a year later on PSX), Jane's 688, Carmageddon (came out later on PSx/N64), Warlords 3, Hexen 2, Imperialism, Ultima Online, Close Combat, Fallout, Panzer General 2, Total Annihilation, GTA (came out later on console), Dark Forces 2, Age of Empires, Blade Runner, Curse of Monkey Island, Zork,: Grand Inquisitor, Independence War, Worms 2, Myth, Wing Commander: Prophecy, Quake 2 (came out later on console)

'98 -- Descent: Freespace, StarCraft, Warhammer: Dark Omen, Might & Magic VI, Commandos: Behind Enemy Lines, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six (would be later ported to consoles), Caesar 3, Delta Force, Grim Fandango, Fallout 2, Age of Empires, The Rise of Rome, Heretic II, Railroad Tycoon 2, Half Life, The Settlers 3, Blood 2, Thief, Star Wars: Rogue Squadron, StarCraft: Brood War, Baldur's Gate, Tribes, Myth 2

During this time PC was also getting cross-platform games like the Tomb Raiders, FIFA, Need for Speed, etc.

 

I just don't get how anyone could suggest PC was getting pushed to the side when so many iconic games were coming out on PC during this time.  FPS (Half Life, Thief, Quake 2), adventure games (Monkey Island, Grim Fandango), strategy games (too many to mention), flight games (X-Wing-vs. Tie Fighter, Wing Commander: Prophecy, Freespace), RPGs (Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Fallout 2, Diablo)

And I've stopped before 1999 where we get Unreal Tournament and Quake 3 which, along with Tribes, practically created the online FPS as we know it today.

That era was a GREAT time to be a PC gamer.  Were the genres different than the dominant genres on console -- absolutely -- but that was the point.

 

TBH, I don't remember MS having a gaming focus before Xbox came around.  Previously, MS was mostly known for flight simulator (and later Age of Empires), am I missing something?

 

2 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 “In the minds of publishers.”  There was a MMO fever craze until they mostly failed at taking on Blizzard.  

I don't know how to read the minds of publishers.  However, while there was absolutely a lot of MMO development.  I also don't remember a lull in PC releases in other genres.

 

2 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

Indie games, Eastern games and/or console ports have shifted it in favor of controller oriented IMO.

 

PC still gets plenty of K&M centric games, but since the industry at large designs around controllers, and PC gets almost everything by default now (yay!), we’ve seen a shift in what’s expected on PC.  So many indie games especially give a ‘plays best with controller’ notice on boot up.

Indie games are a mixed bag.  I am not an "Eastern" game (not a term I have heard in a long time) expert , however I thought the "East" was mostly dominated by Tencent made MMOs.

Some game types are designed around controllers, many are not.  A huge amount are designed around both.  Controllers have never been a bigger part of the gaming landscape than they are today.

It doesn't change the fact that "the vast majority of PC games" have not become "controller centric".

[Spork3245]

11 hours ago, Duderino said:

Getting flashbacks of Bungie porting Halo: Combat Evolved to PC a year before Halo 2’s release on console.

Bungie didn’t do the PC port

[crispy4000]

5 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

To start, mid-PS1....

PC had:

'97 - Diablo (came out a year later on PSX), Dungeon Keeper, Star Wars X-wing vs. Tie-Fighter, Shadow Warrior, Blood, MDK (came out a year later on PSX), Jane's 688, Carmageddon (came out later on PSx/N64), Warlords 3, Hexen 2, Imperialism, Ultima Online, Close Combat, Fallout, Panzer General 2, Total Annihilation, GTA (came out later on console), Dark Forces 2, Age of Empires, Blade Runner, Curse of Monkey Island, Zork,: Grand Inquisitor, Independence War, Worms 2, Myth, Wing Commander: Prophecy, Quake 2 (came out later on console)

'98 -- Descent: Freespace, StarCraft, Warhammer: Dark Omen, Might & Magic VI, Commandos: Behind Enemy Lines, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six (would be later ported to consoles), Caesar 3, Delta Force, Grim Fandango, Fallout 2, Age of Empires, The Rise of Rome, Heretic II, Railroad Tycoon 2, Half Life, The Settlers 3, Blood 2, Thief, Star Wars: Rogue Squadron, StarCraft: Brood War, Baldur's Gate, Tribes, Myth 2

During this time PC was also getting cross-platform games like the Tomb Raiders, FIFA, Need for Speed, etc.

 

I just don't get how anyone could suggest PC was getting pushed to the side when so many iconic games were coming out on PC during this time.  FPS (Half Life, Thief, Quake 2), adventure games (Monkey Island, Grim Fandango), strategy games (too many to mention), flight games (X-Wing-vs. Tie Fighter, Wing Commander: Prophecy, Freespace), RPGs (Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Fallout 2, Diablo)

And I've stopped before 1999 where we get Unreal Tournament and Quake 3 which, along with Tribes, practically created the online FPS as we know it today.

That era was a GREAT time to be a PC gamer.  Were the genres different than the dominant genres on console -- absolutely -- but that was the point.

But that's not a counterpoint to the argument I was making.  The consoles had the highest quantity of high profile releases (or niche as well!) by mid gen I'd say.  There wasn't too much overlap with PC; the industry clearly wasn't a point yet where multiplatform releases were the norm.  But you had many more Western developers focusing on consoles (ie: Medal of Honor, Crash, Goldeneye, Tony Hawk, etc) that gen than Japanese ones even porting to PC, at a time when Japan was firing on all cylinders.  It's why consoles were the place to be if you wanted the most variety and notable games that era, even though there were select genres the PC better served.

I'd rather not see this conversation devolve into list wars, although I will if you really felt it was necessary to prove my point about quantity.  There's also a few in there that did get console releases that you missed.  (Rogue Squdron, Starcraft, etc)

And Carmmegeddon, really?  That game is hot trash, lol.  That's a really low bar...
 

 

5 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I don't know how to read the minds of publishers.  However, while there was absolutely a lot of MMO development.  I also don't remember a lull in PC releases in other genres.

I'd say there was definitely a fall from grace period on PC in regard to RTSs and Adventure games.  Not that there weren't some good releases in that time, but they no longer commanded the attention they once did as killer apps or graphical showpieces.

 

There's also no denying that the CRPG took a turn in the PS2 generation.  Even Fallout and Baldur's Gate were spun off as console-oriented action RPGs for a time.  This wiki is a recommended read.  Though it probably needs an update, given that indies have definitely brought back many older conventions in recent years.

One more tidbit worth mentioning: Madden left PC for a decade.

 

5 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Indie games are a mixed bag.  I am not an "Eastern" game (not a term I have heard in a long time) expert , however I thought the "East" was mostly dominated by Tencent made MMOs.

 

 

East includes Japan, which has always been the most prolific in the gaming space outside of well, MMO's.  I'd love to see that change someday, but that's a topic for another time.

 

5 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Some game types are designed around controllers, many are not.  A huge amount are designed around both.  Controllers have never been a bigger part of the gaming landscape than they are today.

It doesn't change the fact that "the vast majority of PC games" have not become "controller centric".

 

Many more games are designed around controllers these days.  "Designed for both" practically means designing around a controller centric interface by default now, including accounting for its strengths and limitations.  Any 3rd person action(-adventure) game will start there, with analog movement controls and such.

I do think the indie scene has significantly pushed controller adoption on PC.  2d action games and platformers are generally much better served by a gamepad, and they make up a huge contingent.

[Keyser_Soze]

47 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

And Carmmegeddon, really?  That game is hot trash, lol.  That's a really low bar...

 

And now you can play it on your tablet or phone!

[AbsolutSurgen]

4 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

But that's not a counterpoint to the argument I was making.  The consoles had the highest quantity of high profile releases (or niche as well!) by mid gen I'd say.  There wasn't too much overlap with PC; the industry clearly wasn't a point yet where multiplatform releases were the norm.  But you had many more Western developers focusing on consoles (ie: Medal of Honor, Crash, Goldeneye, Tony Hawk, etc) that gen than Japanese ones even porting to PC, at a time when Japan was firing on all cylinders.  It's why consoles were the place to be if you wanted the most variety and notable games that era, even though there were select genres the PC better served.

Console games and PC games of that era tended to have games of different genres (I played both) -- I think I understand your preferences.

4 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

I'd say there was definitely a fall from grace period on PC in regard to RTSs and Adventure games.  Not that there weren't some good releases in that time, but they no longer commanded the attention they once did as killer apps or graphical showpieces.

You're right -- the video/computer game has a long history of the rise and fall of genres.  The type of RTS and adventure games that were popular in the 80s and 90s faded out.

4 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

Many more games are designed around controllers these days.  "Designed for both" practically means designing around a controller centric interface by default now, including accounting for its strengths and limitations.  Any 3rd person action(-adventure) game will start there, with analog movement controls and such.

I do think the indie scene has significantly pushed controller adoption on PC.  2d action games and platformers are generally much better served by a gamepad, and they make up a huge contingent.

You're right, all of those games play better with controller, as do games like Rocket League.  While there are certainly some very popular games that are much better on controller, than mouse/KB (Sekiro and DMC5 come to mind).  Those genres don't dominate the Steam sales chart, nor the Steam highest played games.

While controllers continue to be an increasing part of PC gaming, its not fair to say that the vast majority of games on PC are controller centric.

[crispy4000]

2 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Console games and PC games of that era tended to have games of different genres (I played both) -- I think I understand your preferences.

 

You know, I was actually pretty big into RTSs, strategy and adventure games at the time.  I loved Civ 2, the Warlords series, Monkey’s Island series, Warcraft series, C&C series, Starcraft, Syndicate, etc.  The only thing that didn’t really grab me at the time were the FPSs and CRPGs.  FPSs still aren’t my favorite genre, but I do make exceptions.

 

I did get into Bungie’s Marathon games on the Mac for a time.  That was my Doom, come to think of it.

 

2 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

 

You're right, all of those games play better with controller, as do games like Rocket League.  While there are certainly some very popular games that are much better on controller, than mouse/KB (Sekiro and DMC5 come to mind).  Those genres don't dominate the Steam sales chart, nor the Steam highest played games.

While controllers continue to be an increasing part of PC gaming, its not fair to say that the vast majority of games on PC are controller centric.

 

Oh I wouldn’t argue that controllers are used more than K&M for PC players.  Just that for the most part, devs on PC will assume that you have one now.

 

Games like Seikiro aren’t an exception in the AAA space either.  What about the Assassin’s Creed titles?  The Arkham series?  Pretty much any 3rd person game that isn’t shooting centric benefits from an analog movement stick.

[AbsolutSurgen]

13 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

You know, I was actually pretty big into RTSs, strategy and adventure games at the time.  I loved Civ 2, the Warlords series, Monkey’s Island series, Warcraft series, C&C series, Starcraft, Syndicate, etc.  The only thing that didn’t really grab me at the time were the FPSs and CRPGs.  FPSs still aren’t my favorite genre, but I do make exceptions.

 

I did get into Bungie’s Marathon games on the Mac for a time.  That was my Doom, come to think of it.

 

 

Oh I wouldn’t argue that controllers are used more than K&M for PC players.  Just that for the most part, devs on PC will assume that you have one now.

 

Games like Seikiro aren’t an exception in the AAA space either.  What about the Assassin’s Creed titles?  The Arkham series?  Pretty much any 3rd person game that isn’t shooting centric benefits from an analog movement stick.

I was responding to your previous comment, I'm not sure what you meant by it if this is what you believe.

There are clearly more examples (i.e. Nioh) of games that benefit from controllers.

I don't think devs are making any assumptions on what gamers want to play with -- they are willing to put mouse/KB controls in DMC5, and controller support in CoD.

[number305]

What is everyone going to argue about when everything is streaming and it no longer matters what you play on?

[Spork3245]

2 minutes ago, number305 said:

What is everyone going to argue about when everything is streaming and it no longer matters what you play on?

Which streaming service is best and what controller is best.

[number305]

1 minute ago, Spork3245 said:

Which streaming service is best and what controller is best.

Well duh.  It's obvious the streaming service and controller I use are best.

[Spork3245]

24 minutes ago, number305 said:

Well duh.  It's obvious the streaming service and controller I use are best.

[crispy4000]

Welcome to the future.