Movies ~*Colin Trevorrow's Star Wars: Episode IX - Duel of the Fates OT*~

[johnny]

Just now, Massdriver said:

I think not having a time jump between TFA and TLJ really constrained the overall trilogy and the last movie in particular. We basically had two movies with the first one being really long. I think we needed off screen character development between 7 and 8 so JJ didn’t try to pack as much into the last one. 

Or, and hear me out, he actually tried to continue the story in a cohesive way instead of doing whatever he wanted. 

[jinx8402]

On 12/20/2019 at 2:11 PM, SFLUFAN said:

  Hide contents

I don't think that was the Holdo maneuver - I honestly believe that all of the Sith Fleet destroyers were taken down because they no longer being "powered" the Emperor's dark side Sith power.

 

Spoiler

I just re-watched, and it does look like it was the holdo manuever. There was a streak of light in front of the destroyer and it was split in two.

 

[johnny]

 

[5timechamp]

Spoiler

why use Palpatine?

if u “must” undo TLJ.. why not have the dead Snoke be a clone? Why undercut the original trilogy?

 

 

also much respect to that “ancient” Sith dagger for predicting the location of a fallen death star and the fact that it will hold an ancient Sith wayfinder thingh

 

 

[ARZ]

2 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Will they because that hasn't seemed to work with Rogue One 

 

 

 

You need to step off Rogue One dude....or we gone have a problem

[CayceG]

40 minutes ago, ARZ said:

 

 

 

You need to step off Rogue One dude....or we gone have a problem

 

His opinion really doesn't need to be considered very much if he still can't spell "Leia" correctly. 

[SaysWho?]

Thinking about it, Hux's story was probably one of the better things about the movie.

 

Spoiler

In Force Awakens, he's a pretty generic space Nazi. Not offensive or bad, but just the guy taking orders from Snoke and leading the First Order fleet.

In The Last Jedi, he's more a comical character getting pushed around by Kylo, but by the end, Kylo Ren is the Supreme Leader, so Hux now has to take orders from Kylo, who he already had a tense relationship with.

In Rise of Skywalker, he's the mole, not because he's a great guy (he ordered the destruction of the New Republic), but so Kylo Ren could lose. 

 

All in all... his character actually has a good evolution.

[SaysWho?]

Good post on Reset:

 

"God, the story of Rose Tico:

 

Spoiler

- Devastated when her sister dies, she nevertheless spends the morning zapping deserters because she never loses her hope and faith in the Resistance
- Gets called up to the big leagues when she meets Resistance heroes Finn and Poe and works out how the First Order is tracking them
- Takes Finn on a tour of late stage capitalist depravity, fostering class consciousness in him and turning him into a true socialist. I mean Rebel.
- Risks her life to save Finn and stop him from making a pointless sacrifice
- Is one of the only surviving Resistance members

 

*A year passes*

 

- Straight back to being a mechanic, turns a wrench for the entire first two acts
- Dry, work colleague rapport with Finn in her four spoken lines
- Just allows him to sacrifice himself this time, but it's OK he lived
- Never even meets Rey. Not included in the group hug. Forty cumulative seconds of screen time if that

 

[SaysWho?]

 

 

 

 

[SaysWho?]

Here's what I find peculiar about these explanations:

 

Disney had several billion dollar movies release this year. They had Lion King. They had Toy Story 4. They had Endgame. They had Aladdin. They had Captain Marvel. That had Frozen II.

 

You couldn't give RoS a little extra time? Hurting for money that badly? At a minimum, that could have helped a ton with the pacing and editing.

[skillzdadirecta]

2 hours ago, CayceG said:

 

His opinion really doesn't need to be considered very much if he still can't spell "Leia" correctly. 

Considering that this is a franchise that after 40 years doesn't know if "Han" is pronounced "Hahn" or "Han" like "Hand", I'm cool spelling Leia however I feel at any given moment. Thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. Rogue One sucks.

[skillzdadirecta]

29 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

Here's what I find peculiar about these explanations:

 

Disney had several billion dollar movies release this year. They had Lion King. They had Toy Story 4. They had Endgame. They had Aladdin. They had Captain Marvel. That had Frozen II.

 

You couldn't give RoS a little extra time? Hurting for money that badly? At a minimum, that could have helped a ton with the pacing and editing.

 

What's really peculiar about these explanations is they go out of their way to defend JJ Abrams when JJ Abrams has CLEARLY made the movie he wanted to make. I'm sure there was some pressure from the suits, of course there was, but if the movie was a success, the director should rightfully take the credit. If it was a failure he should rightfully take the blame. Nothing I saw in this movie comes across as a decision that Abrams had forced on him to me 

[SaysWho?]

1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

What's really peculiar about these explanations is they go out of their way to defend JJ Abrams when JJ Abrams has CLEARLY made the movie he wanted to make. I'm sure there was some pressure from the suits, of course there was, but if the movie was a success, the director should rightfully take the credit. If it was a failure he should rightfully take the blame. Nothing I saw in this movie comes across as a decision that Abrams had forced on him to me 

 

I don't know if the story decisions are what they're talking about. I think they mean how they were written, how it was paced, how it was edited, etc. Like, if TLJ had less time, the story would have been the same, I'm sure, but how it was paced/edited/shot may have taken a hit.

[SaysWho?]

Quote

TLJ Luke Skywalker to Kylo: "Strike me down in anger, and I’ll always be with you. Just like your father. ...See ya 'round, kid."

 

TROS Luke Skywalker to Kylo: *FOOTAGE NOT FOUND*

 

Le sigh.

[skillzdadirecta]

2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

I don't know if the story decisions are what they're talking about. I think they mean how they were written, how it was paced, how it was edited, etc. Like, if TLJ had less time, the story would have been the same, I'm sure, but how it was paced/edited/shot may have taken a hit.

 

The director is responsible for all of that stuff too. 

[SaysWho?]

Just now, skillzdadirecta said:

 

The director is responsible for all of that stuff too. 

 

So you're saying if he had 5 minutes, the results would be the same.

[johnny]

1 minute ago, SaysWho? said:

 

So you're saying if he had 5 minutes, the results would be the same.

You’re being ridiculous 

[skillzdadirecta]

1 minute ago, SaysWho? said:

 

So you're saying if he had 5 minutes, the results would be the same.

 

I'm saying if he had five more months or another YEAR, the results would more than likely be the same or very similar. More time isn't going to magically make JJ Abrams a different director.

[SaysWho?]

Just now, johnny said:

You’re being ridiculous 

 

Uh, what?

 

They're saying the movie was made on a crunch. 

There were many sloppy edits and pacing issues with this movie.

Having more time gives you more time to look at a rough cut of the movie and fix egregious pacing issues.

 

If 5 minutes isn't enough to fix all of that, then we've agreed that length of time affects a movie's edit and this is a weird point of contention.

[SaysWho?]

2 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

I'm saying if he had five more months or another YEAR, the results would more than likely be the same or very similar. More time isn't going to magically make JJ Abrams a different director.

 

For editing/pacing purposes, it certainly could.

[skillzdadirecta]

1 minute ago, SaysWho? said:

 

For editing/pacing purposes, it certainly could.

 

Yeah not with the same director in charge. The problems with the editing and pacing wasn't because they "didn't have enough time". Where is this narrative coming from? Abrams cousins?

[SaysWho?]

Just now, skillzdadirecta said:

 

Yeah not with the same director in charge. The problems with the editing and pacing wasn't because they "didn't have enough time". Where is this narrative coming from? Abrams cousins?

 

Absolutely with the same director in charge. A director doesn't necessarily know how a movie is paced until he/she has actually seen the rough cut.

[skillzdadirecta]

2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Absolutely with the same director in charge. A director doesn't necessarily know how a movie is paced until he/she has actually seen the rough cut.

 

Really? Because SOME directors, Like Hitchcock or Eastwood actually have the whole film laid out before they shoot a frame of film. Do we know that JJ didn't have enough time to properly edit the film or is this conjecture? Now JJ is definitely a "Find the film in post" type of guy... but is he saying that he ran out of time in the edit and that's why the pacing of the film is all over the place especially in the first half?

[SaysWho?]

7 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

Really? Because SOME directors, Like Hitchcock or Eastwood actually have the whole film laid out before they shoot a frame of film. Do we know that JJ didn't have enough time to properly edit the film or is this conjecture?

 

Yes, really. Having the film laid out =/= the pacing being perfect once it's shot. I'm fairly certain the production of this film was shorter than 7 and 8. Unless you're saying Hitchcock would have the exact film done with four fewer months on it. In which case, why not do it quicker if it's that easy to do?

 

Everyone would love to have more time making a movie, editing a news story, or creating a show. Give me an extra day to edit a news story and it'll be significantly tighter and how I want it to be. 

[Kal-El814]

Let’s all take a moment to remember Star Trek Into Darkness. 
 

The good guys are getting their ass whipped by Khan, it’s going really badly. Young Spock decides shit, our only shot at this is talking to someone who knows how to beat the guy. So he calls old Spock. Fuck man, Spock on Spock! Old Spock says that Khan is the most dangerous foe they ever faced. Young Spock asks how they won... cut to a new scene before the answer drops. Shortly, Young Spock gets into a fight with Khan that he wins when... he hits Khan in the head, very hard. 
 

So let’s be clear. To establish drama, Old Spock tells a falsehood about Khan for no reason other than to pump up the audience; Khan was not the most dangerous threat the Enterprise faced, that’s complete nonsense. And Old Spock doesn’t lie, that’s a big part of his thing. So JJ wants the feels from Old Spock and the coolness of him talking to new Spock, but he doesn’t give enough of a fuck to write old Spock well for even 45 seconds of screen time. Then they cut away from the dialogue about how to beat Khan because clearly, Old Spock tells young Spock, “my guy, just hit him in the head with a hammer or something.”

 

Let’s not throw our backs out trying to bend over and make excuses about how JJ would have done better with more time... This is just what he does. Great casting and a rad veneer over all that particle board. 

[SaysWho?]

1 minute ago, Kal-El814 said:

Let’s all take a moment to remember Star Trek Into Darkness. 
 

The good guys are getting their ass whipped by Khan, it’s going really badly. Young Spock decides shit, our only shot at this is talking to someone who knows how to beat the guy. So he calls old Spock. Fuck man, Spock on Spock! Old Spock says that Khan is the most dangerous foe they ever faced. Young Spock asks how they won... cut to a new scene before the answer drops. Shortly, Young Spock gets into a fight with Khan that he wins when... he hits Khan in the head, very hard. 
 

So let’s be clear. To establish drama, Old Spock tells a falsehood about Khan for no reason other than to pump up the audience; Khan was not the most dangerous threat the Enterprise faced, that’s complete nonsense. Then they cut away from the dialogue about how to beat Khan because clearly, Old Spock tells young Spock, “my guy, just hit him in the head with a hammer or something.”

 

Let’s not throw our backs out trying to bend over and make excuses about how JJ would have done better with more time... This is just what he does. Great casting and a rad veneer over all that particle board. 

 

Episode 7 was directed by Abrams. It was a much better paced and edited and shot movie. More time was spent on production.

 

I get it: this is a Star Wars discussion, so common sense goes out the door when you don't like something. "Pacing and editing become better when more time is used," is a common sense thing that I have experience with as part of my job doing things that are 1/50th the length of a full-length movie. 

[skillzdadirecta]

Just now, SaysWho? said:

 

Yes, really. Having the film laid out =/= the pacing being perfect once it's shot. I'm fairly certain the production of this film was shorter than 7 and 8. Unless you're saying Hitchcock would have the exactly same film done with four fewer months on it. In which case, why not do it quicker if it's that easy to do?

 

Everyone would love to have more time making a movie, editing a news story, or creating a show. Give me an extra day to edit a news story and it'll be significantly tighter and how I want it to be. 

I've found that more time you have to tinker, the more time you WILL tinker. There's a reason why the phrase "Improve into a failure" exists.  Sure you want adequate time to make the project perfect, but in the case of ROS, nothing I saw in the movie says "They needed more time in the edit room". Maybe another draft or two of the script probably, but unless there's a story going around saying that they ran out of time and the studio forced them to put out an unfinished movie, this is just JJ Abrams doing what JJ Abrams does.

 

2 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Let’s all take a moment to remember Star Trek Into Darkness. 
 

The good guys are getting their ass whipped by Khan, it’s going really badly. Young Spock decides shit, our only shot at this is talking to someone who knows how to beat the guy. So he calls old Spock. Fuck man, Spock on Spock! Old Spock says that Khan is the most dangerous foe they ever faced. Young Spock asks how they won... cut to a new scene before the answer drops. Shortly, Young Spock gets into a fight with Khan that he wins when... he hits Khan in the head, very hard. 
 

So let’s be clear. To establish drama, Old Spock tells a falsehood about Khan for no reason other than to pump up the audience; Khan was not the most dangerous threat the Enterprise faced, that’s complete nonsense. Then they cut away from the dialogue about how to beat Khan because clearly, Old Spock tells young Spock, “my guy, just hit him in the head with a hammer or something.”

 

Let’s not throw our backs out trying to bend over and make excuses about how JJ would have done better with more time... This is just what he does. Great casting and a rad veneer over all that particle board. 

 

Yes.

 

[Kal-El814]

Just now, SaysWho? said:

 

Episode 7 was directed by Abrams. It was a much better paced and edited and shot movie. More time was spent on production.

 

I get it: this is a Star Wars discussion, so common sense goes out the door when you don't like something. "Pacing and editing become better when more time is used," is a common sense thing that I have experience with as part of my job doing things that are 1/50th the length of a full-length movie. 

Yeah but there are diminishing returns, too. JJ is on the record about not giving a shit about some of this stuff. I’m not saying time has no impact here, of course it does. Buuuuuut he also doesn’t care. 
 

 

Time isn’t fixing indifference. 

[skillzdadirecta]

12 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Episode 7 was directed by Abrams. It was a much better paced and edited and shot movie. More time was spent on production. -And less time was spent trying to appease and address every negative internet comment that appeared on REDDIT and various other forums.

 

I get it: this is a Star Wars discussion, so common sense goes out the door when you don't like something. "Pacing and editing become better when more time is used," is a common sense thing that I have experience with as part of my job doing things that are 1/50th the length of a full-length movie. -Yeah I do the same thing, being an actual editor and I can say with confidence that sometimes having more time to edit  doesn't necessarily make a better product. Ive had plenty of producers take a perfectly fine cut and royally fuck it up just because we had more time. It happens.

 

[SaysWho?]

Just now, skillzdadirecta said:

I've found that more time you have to tinker, the more time you WILL tinker. There's a reason why the phrase "Improve into a failure" exists.  Sure you want adequate time to make the project perfect, but in the case of ROS, nothing I saw in the movie says "They needed more time in the edit room". Maybe another draft or two of the script probably, but unless there's a story going around saying that they ran out of time and the studio forced them to put out an unfinished movie, this is just JJ Abrams doing what JJ Abrams does.

 

 

Yes.

 

 

JJ said he wished he had more time in one of however many interviews he's done on the film. But putting that aside:

 

There is such a thing as overcooked, yes.

 

But considering we have two Star Wars movies from Abrams, and Episode 7 is a significantly more competently crafted movie -- forget story, just the craft, and no awful edits such as what we received in the first 20 minutes of RoS -- it's not a huge stretch to think the movie would have been tighter. Give me more time to tinker, and I'm going to give you a better edited story.

 

There are clearly "mystery box" problems he had starting with Episode 7. Those aren't what I'm talking about.

[SaysWho?]

2 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Yeah but there are diminishing returns, too. JJ is on the record about not giving a shit about some of this stuff. I’m not saying time has no impact here, of course it does. Buuuuuut he also doesn’t care. 
 

 

Time isn’t fixing indifference. 

 

Look at what you linked to me: Pine's an actor, he says, "Give me more time so I can do a better job," and he wasn't given more time to do a better job. 

 

Like... there are obvious pacing and editing issues and lightning quick cuts that weren't present in 7. Part of it is probably just throwing a bunch of shit into the movie and having to explain all of it, but that whole warp jump action sequence shortly after the Kylo/Palp opening? That was a weird sequence and was undercooked. 

[SuperSpreader]

1 hour ago, SaysWho? said:

Good post on Reset:

 

"God, the story of Rose Tico:

 

  Hide contents

- Devastated when her sister dies, she nevertheless spends the morning zapping deserters because she never loses her hope and faith in the Resistance
- Gets called up to the big leagues when she meets Resistance heroes Finn and Poe and works out how the First Order is tracking them
- Takes Finn on a tour of late stage capitalist depravity, fostering class consciousness in him and turning him into a true socialist. I mean Rebel.
- Risks her life to save Finn and stop him from making a pointless sacrifice
- Is one of the only surviving Resistance members

 

*A year passes*

 

- Straight back to being a mechanic, turns a wrench for the entire first two acts
- Dry, work colleague rapport with Finn in her four spoken lines
- Just allows him to sacrifice himself this time, but it's OK he lived
- Never even meets Rey. Not included in the group hug. Forty cumulative seconds of screen time if that

 

Breaking news: Rose sucks who cares 

[skillzdadirecta]

2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

JJ said he wished he had more time in one of however many interviews he's done on the film. But putting that aside:

 

There is such a thing as overcooked, yes.

 

But considering we have two Star Wars movies from Abrams, and Episode 7 is a significantly more competently crafted movie -- forget story, just the craft, and no awful edits such as what we received in the first 20 minutes of RoS -- it's not a huge stretch to think the movie would have been tighter. Give me more time to tinker, and I'm going to give you a better edited story.

 

There are clearly "mystery box" problems he had starting with Episode 7. Those aren't what I'm talking about.

Fair enough...but I argue that the problems with the film come mainly from the choices that were made LONG before they made it to the edit room. Yes there were some poorly paced moments,  but they were exacerbated by all the stuuf JJ felt he had to shoe-horn into the film in order to appease the trolls and THAT fucked up the flow more than an awkward edit or two.

[SaysWho?]

1 minute ago, 2user1cup said:

Breaking news: Rose sucks who cares 

 

Many people, which is why you're hearing a stink being made.

[skillzdadirecta]

2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Look at what you linked to me: Pine's an actor, he says, "Give me more time so I can do a better job," and he wasn't given more time to do a better job. 

 

Like... there are obvious pacing and editing issues and lightning quick cuts that weren't present in 7. Part of it is probably just throwing a bunch of shit into the movie and having to explain all of it, but that whole warp jump action sequence shortly after the Kylo/Palp opening? That was a weird sequence and was undercooked. 

 

That's most of it.