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Radeon VII: Competitive with 2080; $699


legend
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39 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

How can you disagree in terms of sales if we have no sales numbers yet (or likely ever)?

 

4 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

No ray tracing will hurt it, me thinks. But, hopefully this makes nVidia use more realistic pricing (they won’t, but, one can dream, god damn it!!!!)

3

 

ie: speculatively. I have no idea what you thought I was referencing.

Why am I speculating that lack of Ray Tracing could potentially hurt this card selling? Because it’s the same price and performance of one with RT, and at the $700 range people tend to want to be able to check every graphics option.

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Well there needs to be a compelling case for DXR first for those sales to come, and even with the patches and driver improvements, BFV isn't really giving it. I'll reserve full judgement until Metro Exodus comes out, but I don't think this is the generation for ray tracing. Bring on the Shader Model 3.0 comparisons.

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4 minutes ago, Reputator said:

Well there needs to be a compelling case for DXR first for those sales to come, and even with the patches and driver improvements, BFV isn't really giving it. I'll reserve full judgement until Metro Exodus comes out, but I don't think this is the generation for ray tracing. Bring on the Shader Model 3.0 comparisons.

 

Fair enough, but at that point why not just get a cheaper last gen card and save? 1080 Ti cards are going for around $500 now.

And again, for the same price, wouldn't most high-end gamers preference the one with Ray-Tracing available? If the AMD card out-priced the RTX 2080, I would see the argument for it, certainly. 

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2 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

You linked the same thing as mike lol.

The gigabyte is also $699.

 

I returned my EVGA when it first launched due to issues with it. When I went to purchase another brand none of them were $699 anymore, they all jumped $100 in price. Good to see some came back down.

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1 minute ago, Spork3245 said:

 

Fair enough, but at that point why not just get a cheaper last gen card and save? 1080 Ti cards are going for around $500 now.

 

I'd assume there's a power consumption improvement going to 7nm but I wouldn't criticize anyone for going that route.

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1 minute ago, Nokt said:

You linked the same thing as mike lol.

The gigabyte is also $699.

 

I returned my EVGA when it first launched due to issues with it. When I went to purchase another brand none of them were $699 anymore, they all jumped $100 in price. Good to see some came back down.

 

I skipped right by Mike's post :blush: 

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7 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

No ray tracing will hurt it, me thinks. But, hopefully this makes nVidia use more realistic pricing (they won’t, but, one can dream, god damn it!!!!)

 

4 hours ago, Reputator said:

 

No DXR won't hurt it at all.

 

 

Well, I'm pretty niche, but Nvidia's Tensor Cores and RT cores means unless there is a big surprise with these AMD cards, I'm going Nvidia.

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2 minutes ago, legend said:

 

 

 

Well, I'm pretty niche, but Nvidia's Tensor Cores and RT cores means unless there is a big surprise with these AMD cards, I'm going Nvidia.

 

Yea, at the same price with the same performance, getting the card with less features doesn’t make sense to me unless you have something against one of the brands. That’s my point as to why I think lack of RT will hurt it from a sales perspective - at $700 it’s educated PC gamers buying it, not random schmucks looking to maybe get into PC gaming.

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4 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

 

Yea, at the same price with the same performance, getting the card with less features doesn’t make sense to me unless you have something against one of the brands. That’s my point as to why I think lack of RT will hurt it from a sales perspective - at $700 it’s educated PC gamers buying it, not random schmucks looking to maybe get into PC gaming.

 

The price will hurt it more than features. AMD had a chance to really undercut NVIDIA, and they didn't, which is unfortunate given how long it took AMD to reach this performance level. I have to imagine it has something to do with that expensive HBM2 memory (gee, isn't that a familiar problem?) but then why in the hell did they need 16GB of it? I mean, I already know the answer, and it has more to do with hitting the bandwidth target they were aiming at, but without giving AMD a significant advantage, 1TB/s is more a bragging point than anything else.

 

A month ago I'd call this a big win because of all the 4k Freesync monitors out there needing a card that can power them, but NVIDIA just stole that thunder too.

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8 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

The price will hurt it more than features. AMD had a chance to really undercut NVIDIA, and they didn't, which is unfortunate given how long it took AMD to reach this performance level. I have to imagine it has something to do with that expensive HBM2 memory (gee, isn't that a familiar problem?) but then why in the hell did they need 16GB of it? I mean, I already know the answer, and it has more to do with hitting the bandwidth target they were aiming at, but without giving AMD a significant advantage, 1TB/s is more a bragging point than anything else.

 

A month ago I'd call this a big win because of all the 4k Freesync monitors out there needing a card that can power them, but NVIDIA just stole that thunder too.

 

I already stated that regarding pricing. The issue is the same performance at the same price, with less features. AMD needed to undercut the 2080s base MSRP by at least $100 to make the card appealing to its target consumer. nVidia can likely even remove the current free game bundles and do a $50-$100 price drop on the 2080 to make the R7 be completely dead in the water.

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2 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

I already stated that regarding pricing. The issue is the same performance at the same price, with less features. AMD needed to undercut the 2080s base MSRP by at least $100 to make the card appealing to its target consumer. nVidia can likely even remove the current free game bundles and do a $50-$100 price drop on the 2080 to make the R7 be completely dead in the water.

 

I think AMD thought they were undercutting the 2080 by $100, without actually looking at reality.

 

A lot of people are disappointed this wasn't Navi. I'm a bit more on the lukewarm side. I like the idea of a refresh, and I don't think the industry has seen a REAL refresh in the old sense of the word for a very long time. This is a die shrink of the existing architecture, with a few enhancements and a decent little bump in speed, before they take a big plunge on the new process with a new architecture.

 

It's smart in a way, and it should be noted that while NVIDIA started a sort of "beta" program with support for Freesync, from their own booth at CES, the results were hit or miss.

 

 

And they're basically leaving the testing in the hands of users, needless to say without much incentive to improve how well Freesync monitors work on their cards with much expediency. This is probably why Jensen recently made comments about how Freesync "doesn't work". If you want GOOD support for your 4k Freesync monitor, you'll probably still need to buy a Radeon VII.

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8 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

I think AMD thought they were undercutting the 2080 by $100, without actually looking at reality.

 

... what? They thought they were undercutting it by releasing it at the same msrp and not checking vendors to see the various brands selling the 2080 for said msrp...? .... what?

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1 minute ago, Spork3245 said:

 

The point about price was made in what you quoted. “Same price for the same performance, getting the card with less features doesn’t make sense” :p 

 

Kinda, but the more nuanced part:

 

"And again, for the same price, wouldn't most high-end gamers preference the one with Ray-Tracing available? If the AMD card out-priced the RTX 2080, I would see the argument for it, certainly. "

 

I didn't see. But regardless, I added a lot more detail to it.

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