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Target reduces 2slgbtq+ merchandise ahead of Pride month after harassment and violence from the right wing

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Commissar SFLUFAN

Commissar SFLUFAN

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The bullying tactic did work very well because Target "surrendered" regardless of the dubious relevance of the foot traffic metric to the situation at hand.

 

It's been absolutely "legitimized" as an effective tactic to force a large commercial enterprise to change its approach to the LGBT+ community.

 

We're well past the point of "social consensus" on many cultural, social, and economic issues, and quite frankly, good riddance to such a concept that largely exists to serve the interests of the dominant cultural/economic groups and stifle those of groups on the outside.

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TUFKAK

TUFKAK

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39 minutes ago, Kamusha said:

Why use such kid gloves when discussing domestic right wing terrorism. How are bomb threats merely bullying? Not sure how the legitimization of right wing terrorism could be framed as a positive development.

But ya see left wingers call Jordan Peterson mean things so it’s totally the same thing.

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Signifyin(g)Monkey

Signifyin(g)Monkey

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10 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

The bullying tactic did work very well because Target "surrendered" regardless of the dubious relevance of the foot traffic metric to the situation at hand.

 

It's been absolutely "legitimized" as an effective tactic to force a large commercial enterprise to change its approach to the LGBT+ community.

 

We're well past the point of "social consensus" on many cultural, social, and economic issues, and quite frankly, good riddance to such a concept that largely exists to serve the interests of the dominant cultural/economic groups and stifle those of groups on the outside.

I guess we'll just have to disagree.  I know you've said you've been in a very dark place lately and I don't want to diminish how you feel.  But I will note that the same thing could have easily been said about gay rights not that long ago, and now there is far more support for things like gay marriage and gay adoption.  (not that we should let our guard down by any means) No doubt things look bleak now, but I think you're being too pessimistic.  Probably in the same way you think I'm being too optimistic.  Maybe that's as it should be--at their best, the pessimist can benefit the optimist by reminding them to keep their head out of the clouds, and the optimist can benefit the pessimist by annoying them with a more hopeful vision of the future.

 

4 hours ago, Kamusha said:

Why use such kid gloves when discussing domestic right wing terrorism. How are bomb threats merely bullying? Not sure how the legitimization of right wing terrorism could be framed as a positive development.

Oh there's no reason not to call it terrorism.  Terrorism is the ultimate form of bullying.  I'm just saying the whole "it's okay that X was bullied because they seem to have recovered just fine and the material effects of the bullying seem minimal" is a bad way to frame it.  It may seem a sensible framing when applied to rich and famous people who are supported by the right, like, say, Jordan Peterson, but applied to vulnerable people--and the trans community is very vulnerable--it minimizes the often invisible social and psychological damage being done, and encourages unproductive practices.

4 hours ago, TUFKAK said:

But ya see left wingers call Jordan Peterson mean things so it’s totally the same thing.

There is a huge difference in degree.  That's definitely something the right doesn't understand, and why their 'cancel culture' antics are way worse than the left's IMO.  But the underlying thinking is the same--"No need to make an argument to try and win anyone over, let's just shame/terrorize/bully the other party into submission."

 

In the US, most of the major victories for marginalized groups in the 20th century were not won that way.  For the past 100 years, the significant advances in civil rights for women, the black community, and, most recently (and incompletely), the gay and lesbian community were ultimately secured in the US largely by winning over the sympathies of average people who started out on-the-fence. (and, just as importantly, winning over their kids)  Yes, there was often violent confrontation in the interim, and yes, it's shitty that these idiots needed so much cajoling just to get on the right side of history.  But compare that to the manner in which the biggest victory for civil rights had to be won in the 19th century.  An estimated 620k people died in the Civil War.  Civil Wars are what you get when you give up on dialogue and decide to resolve a social division by sheer force.  I think the messy, cloying, imperfect, and frustratingly slow incrementalism of building consensus by winning support from the average moron by rhetorical appeal and force of argument is far superior to that.

 

Not coincidentally, I'm reminded of this dialogue from Lincoln, where Lincoln and Thaddeus Stevens joust over whether it's worth it to 'win over' people on the fence about something as indisputably abominable as slavery. 

 

      

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TUFKAK

TUFKAK

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I say in the culture war debate, too many people are too entrenched in their echo chambers and me attempting to win them over is wasted effort. Ive no desire to engage with right wing chuds on any topic anymore, these middle of the road people don’t exist in my world and the chuds are persona non grata in my life.

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Ghost_MH

Ghost_MH

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6 hours ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

For the past 100 years, the significant advances in civil rights for women, the black community, and, most recently (and incompletely), the gay and lesbian community were ultimately secured in the US largely by winning over the sympathies of average people who started out on-the-fence. (and, just as importantly, winning over their kids) 

 

Winning their sympathies or making them uncomfortable in their apathy?

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ort

ort

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230616134120-donald-trump-miss-universe-

Trump repeatedly celebrated the inclusion of transgender women in his beauty pageant | CNN Politics

WWW.CNN.COM
Years before he said he was running for president to “defeat the cult of gender ideology,” Donald Trump welcomed and praised the inclusion of transgender women in the Miss Universe pageant.

 

FROM 2012...

w_800

Miss Universe pageant ends ban on transgender contestants | CNN

WWW.CNN.COM
The Miss Universe organization announced Tuesday it is ending its rule banning transgender women from competing.

 

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