General Gaming Final Fantasy VII Rebirth (Remake Part 2) - "An Excellent But Inconsistent Experience" (Digital Foundry Technical Review)

[best3444]

10 hours ago, Biggie said:

that you love it lol

 

It's really good. Especially coming off of watching cutscenes and dialogue for hours on end with Infinite Wealth. 

[Biggie]

16 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

It's really good. Especially coming off of watching cutscenes and dialogue for hours on end with Infinite Wealth. 

Infinite Wealth > FF

[best3444]

54 minutes ago, Biggie said:

Infinite Wealth > FF

 

No and it's all about preference. Infinite Wealth is a good movie, though. FF7 is full of amazing action and story. Imo, it's much better. But Infinite Wealth is cool if you like that type of style. Wait until you play it before comparing the two. 

 

The man who erased his name is so much better than Infinite Wealth, too. 

[Biggie]

6 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

No and it's all about preference. Infinite Wealth is a good movie, though. FF7 is full of amazing action and story. Imo, it's much better. But Infinite Wealth is cool if you like that type of style. Wait until you play it before comparing the two. 

 

The man who erased his name is so much better than Infinite Wealth, too. 

U wanna give me my $50 now or wait until the game comes out and I don’t buy or play it?

[best3444]

32 minutes ago, Biggie said:

U wanna give me my $50 now or wait until the game comes out and I don’t buy or play it?

 

I'll wait until everyone here praises it then you drastically change your mind like you always do and buy it. Or Stepee buys it for you. 

 

What is odd is how much praise you used to give FF7 Remake. You were demanding I play it etc. I'm too lazy to look it up to quote you but you do this all the time. I guarantee you get Rebirth and you should because it's going to be awesome. 

[best3444]

This game is so freakin good. I just died twice on a boss and I was so close to beating it but my last party member died. I love how interactive it is with inventory control and using potions at the right time. The combat is so fun and challenging.

 

I might have to lower the difficulty to easy for this boss fight because that's two times in a row I spent time on it and died. So much fun and it's not frustrating. 

 

I can't wait to play Rebirth with it's beautiful environments. 

[legend]

32 minutes ago, best3444 said:

This game is so freakin good. I just died twice on a boss and I was so close to beating it but my last party member died. I love how interactive it is with inventory control and using potions at the right time. The combat is so fun and challenging.

 

I might have to lower the difficulty to easy for this boss fight because that's two times in a row I spent time on it and died. So much fun and it's not frustrating. 

 

I can't wait to play Rebirth with it's beautiful environments. 

 

Glad you're enjoying it. I had original thought you would like it since you were initially psyched by FFXVI's combat until it fell thin since FFVIIR does a much better job of straddling action and strategy (and character customization). However, you fell off it pretty quick initially. What's changed your mind?

[Biggie]

1 hour ago, best3444 said:

 

I'll wait until everyone here praises it then you drastically change your mind like you always do and buy it. Or Stepee buys it for you. 

 

What is odd is how much praise you used to give FF7 Remake. You were demanding I play it etc. I'm too lazy to look it up to quote you but you do this all the time. I guarantee you get Rebirth and you should because it's going to be awesome. 

So what you’re saying is you aren’t going to pay me my $50 lol

[best3444]

21 minutes ago, legend said:

 

Glad you're enjoying it. I had original thought you would like it since you were initially psyched by FFXVI's combat until it fell thin since FFVIIR does a much better job of straddling action and strategy (and character customization). However, you fell off it pretty quick initially. What's changed your mind?

 

The demo of Rebirth sparked something in me to really give the first more time. I liked Cloud in the demo which was one of my initial criticisms when I played Remake. I also didn't like the depressing environments at first but now I appreciate the detail here. Cloud is a cool character and I'm interested to see how he develops.

 

Yes, the combat and customization in this is leagues better than what FF16 was doing/didn't do. 

[best3444]

22 minutes ago, Biggie said:

So what you’re saying is you aren’t going to pay me my $50 lol

 

I won't have to. You'll be playing Rebith guaranteed. 

[best3444]

@Bacon What are your thoughts on FF7 Remake? I know you're a FF fan and I forget what your opinion is on this. 

[best3444]

@Bacon Why did you laugh?

[Bacon]

1 minute ago, best3444 said:

@Bacon Why did you laugh?

Oh, I thought you were pullin' my leg. I have strong negative opinions towards FF7R.

[best3444]

Just now, Bacon said:

Oh, I thought you were pullin' my leg. I have strong negative opinions towards FF7R.

 

I didn't recall that. What didn't you like about it? Too linear?

[legend]

12 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

I didn't recall that. What didn't you like about it? Too linear?

 

It’s not actually a remake of the original. The story is different this time and Bacon isn’t a fan of those differences and reason for those differences. 
 

The below isn’t really a spoiler and you should feel free to read it, but I’ll put it in spoilers anyway for those who haven’t played it but were big fans of the original and still haven’t played it yet. 
 

Spoiler

It’s actually more of a sequel with time and parallel world shenanigans resulting in the original events being changed.

 

[Bacon]

27 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

I didn't recall that. What didn't you like about it? Too linear?

 

Due to FF7R not being an actual remake, but instead an Alternate Universe - Time Shenanigans sequel, it retroactively ruins the original FF7. It makes the plot and ending of FF7 irrelevant. The OG FF7 is not in this bubble where it is unaffected by FF7R like some people have claimed in the past. In fact, it is the goal of these modern FF7 games to destroy the canon and change history.

 

Imagine a movie that follows "Character A" who marries "Character B" and ends with "And they lived happily ever after." And then a sequel comes out that follows "Character B" and you find out that during the first movie "Character B" was sleeping around the whole time and never stopped cheating even after the "And they lived happily ever after," bit. 

 

That is effectively what FF7R does. No, it's not literally what it does and yes I am blowing it out of proportion, but I don't care.

 

 

[best3444]

5 minutes ago, Bacon said:

 

Due to FF7R not being an actual remake, but instead an Alternate Universe - Time Shenanigans sequel, it retroactively ruins the original FF7. It makes the plot and ending of FF7 irrelevant. The OG FF7 is not in this bubble where it is unaffected by FF7R like some people have claimed in the past. In fact, it is the goal of these modern FF7 games to destroy the canon and change history.

 

Imagine a movie that follows "Character A" who marries "Character B" and ends with "And they lived happily ever after." And then a sequel comes out that follows "Character B" and you find out that during the first movie "Character B" was sleeping around the whole time and never stopped cheating even after the "And they lived happily ever after," bit. 

 

That is effectively what FF7R does. No, it's not literally what it does and yes I am blowing it out of proportion, but I don't care.

 

 

 

Thankfully I never played the original FF7 so your complaints are irrelevant to me. Thanks for the detailed response. 

[crispy4000]

42 minutes ago, Bacon said:

 

Due to FF7R not being an actual remake, but instead an Alternate Universe - Time Shenanigans sequel, it retroactively ruins the original FF7. It makes the plot and ending of FF7 irrelevant. The OG FF7 is not in this bubble where it is unaffected by FF7R like some people have claimed in the past. In fact, it is the goal of these modern FF7 games to destroy the canon and change history.

Change is hard, we get it.

Especially after playing it, I’m convinced that I enjoyed FF7R more for what it is (and anticipating what Rebirth could be) than I would have a straight laced remake that didn’t dare to change anything of significance.  FF7 isn’t ruined in either case, just like Star Wars 4-6 weren’t ruined by older Lucas or Disney.

 

Remake set the expectation that they may choose to fuck with things in the the new games with no take-backsies.  If anything, I’d be more disappointed if the threads they opened aren’t closed in a satisfying way.  That would pull me to your side, but that’s for this game (and the next probably) to answer.

 

Well, other than thinking the game itself is fantastic even if you chose to spite the story.

 

 

[Biggie]

3 hours ago, best3444 said:

 

I won't have to. You'll be playing Rebith guaranteed. 

[crispy4000]

I’ll add that I’m almost done with Crisis Core right now, and if you take that game as canon (as has been stated) the ending of FF7R is much more believable.

 

I just one shotted Sephiroth, lol.  I don’t know how the ending won’t come across as something ridiculous  considering. 

[best3444]

I wonder how poorly the original has aged. I remember when it released that it was considered a visual masterpiece. 

[Biggie]

31 minutes ago, best3444 said:

I wonder how poorly the original has aged. I remember when it released that it was considered a visual masterpiece. 

 

[Bacon]

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

FF7 isn’t ruined in either case, just like Star Wars 4-6 weren’t ruined by older Lucas or Disney.

The difference there is that that shit is actually in the past (1-3) or future (7-9). There is no parallel timeline shit with 4-6. It's really not the same. I had thought about star wars for my movie comparison but realized it didn't fit at all. It's not just change, it's erasure. It may not be ruined for you, but FF7 no longer ends on Disc 3 with the Limit Break Omnislash. FF7 ends at the end of this new trilogy. The OG ending no longer exists because it doesn't end there.

 

I'm not, at all, trying to convince you or anyone to share my stance.  But I am tired of people saying the OG FF7 still exists as it was.

 

1 hour ago, Bacon said:

Imagine a movie that follows "Character A" who marries "Character B" and ends with "And they lived happily ever after." And then a sequel comes out that follows "Character B" and you find out that during the first movie "Character B" was sleeping around the whole time and never stopped cheating even after the "And they lived happily ever after," bit. 

In this strange example of mine, the first movie with "Character A" is now forever altered with the knowledge of the sequel which stars "Character B".  You can't go back unless you retcon shit. Final Fantasy 7 is forever altered by Final Fantasy 7: Remake & Rebirth & Revision. Movie A is forever ruined because of Movie B. I will never watch Movie A again. It's no longer the same movie due to the added context. Final Fantasy 7 is no longer the same game.

 

Now, unlike Movie A, I will replay FF7 again. Last year I started playing every Final Fantasy. I have finished playing FF 1-4 and I have started 5. I will be replaying FF7 as part of this "journey" but not after that.

 

 

Edit: I just want to say I'm not all that bothered about it anymore despite these paragraphs. I'm just trying to explain my opinions as best as I can, but it prolly comes across like I'm a whiney baby. I'm just over-explaining myself because it feels like people don't really get what I mean despite trying to explain it. If it wasn't for best @ing me I'd never have posted cuz there's really no point in giving my opinions on this shit anymore.

 

Tho, shout out to @legend for understanding the garbage I'm layin' down.

[SaysWho?]

FF7 I'll replay same as the Remake because they're all great. 

 

FF7 Remake also makes the original OST better because some of these pieces are phenomenal. Best OST I've ever heard. Can't wait for Rebirth's.

[best3444]

I didn't know the Rebirth demo is 2 hours long. That's awesome. 

[best3444]

1 minute ago, Keyser_Soze said:

Post Malone!

 

I didn't understand a word he sang. 

[Keyser_Soze]

2 hours ago, best3444 said:

I wonder how poorly the original has aged. I remember when it released that it was considered a visual masterpiece. 

 

Still good and playable and worth playing at least in direct contrast to the new games.

[SaysWho?]

Even back then, with its cool pre-rendered backgrounds and everything, we knew the characters were weirdly blocky.

 

How has the game ages as a whole? Great! Atmosphere is top notch, game is fun as hell, ost is lovely.

[best3444]

2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

Even back then, with its cool pre-rendered backgrounds and everything, we knew the characters were weirdly blocky.

 

How has the game ages as a whole? Great! Atmosphere is top notch, game is fun as hell, ost is lovely.

 

Interesting. I don't think I could stomach the visuals honestly. 

[Spork3245]

Weren’t they supposed to re-release the original with updated graphics/character models on mobile or something?

[Keyser_Soze]

19 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

Weren’t they supposed to re-release the original with updated graphics/character models on mobile or something?

 

They did, it's on steam too. It's more of a greatest hits thing than a normal game.

 

FINAL FANTASY VII EVER CRISIS on Steam

STORE.STEAMPOWERED.COM

---

Relive the most memorable moments from FFVII and experience the journey of a young hero Sephiroth in FINAL FANTASY VII EVER CRISIS.

 

[Spork3245]

1 minute ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

They did, it's on steam too. It's more of a greatest hits thing than a normal game.

 

FINAL FANTASY VII EVER CRISIS on Steam

STORE.STEAMPOWERED.COM

---

Relive the most memorable moments from FFVII and experience the journey of a young hero Sephiroth in FINAL FANTASY VII EVER CRISIS.

 

It lost me at “free to play”

[Keyser_Soze]

1 minute ago, Spork3245 said:

It lost me at “free to play”

 

Well you should have been lost when you said "mobile game" which all about guaranteed free to play.

[Spork3245]

Just now, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Well you should have been lost when you said "mobile game" which all about guaranteed free to play.

Nah, they could’ve charged $20-30 for it and it just be the PSX game with updated graphics and it would’ve sold buttloads. 

[crispy4000]

7 hours ago, Bacon said:

The difference there is that that shit is actually in the past (1-3) or future (7-9). There is no parallel timeline shit with 4-6. It's really not the same. I had thought about star wars for my movie comparison but realized it didn't fit at all. It's not just change, it's erasure. It may not be ruined for you, but FF7 no longer ends on Disc 3 with the Limit Break Omnislash. FF7 ends at the end of this new trilogy. The OG ending no longer exists because it doesn't end there.

 

I'm not, at all, trying to convince you or anyone to share my stance.  But I am tired of people saying the OG FF7 still exists as it was.

 

In this strange example of mine, the first movie with "Character A" is now forever altered with the knowledge of the sequel which stars "Character B".  You can't go back unless you retcon shit. Final Fantasy 7 is forever altered by Final Fantasy 7: Remake & Rebirth & Revision. Movie A is forever ruined because of Movie B. I will never watch Movie A again. It's no longer the same movie due to the added context. Final Fantasy 7 is no longer the same game.

 

Now, unlike Movie A, I will replay FF7 again. Last year I started playing every Final Fantasy. I have finished playing FF 1-4 and I have started 5. I will be replaying FF7 as part of this "journey" but not after that.

 

 

Edit: I just want to say I'm not all that bothered about it anymore despite these paragraphs. I'm just trying to explain my opinions as best as I can, but it prolly comes across like I'm a whiney baby. I'm just over-explaining myself because it feels like people don't really get what I mean despite trying to explain it. If it wasn't for best @ing me I'd never have posted cuz there's really no point in giving my opinions on this shit anymore.

 

Tho, shout out to @legend for understanding the garbage I'm layin' down.

I’m no nerd about the parallel timelines thing in this universe, but it really does seem like you’re overthinking it if you consider it erasure.  It’s heavily implied that the default timeline (FF7 as you know) happened at one point.   Lots of points of deja vu and such the characters themselves experience.  Maybe some of those smaller moments could be lost when you never played it and just watched or read a synopsis.  

And I still find it crazy to believe that you think FF7 is ruined forever, but Star Wars, naw we can just cut Luke’s Disney arc out of our head space because the original trilogy was complete.  I don’t see the difference, when FF7 by the same metric, is a complete story.  Even without the timeline jazz, or Advent Children, or Crisis Core, etc, that would remain true.
 

And it’s all so silly here when we don’t truly know the consequences of the changes.  To Remake’s credit, we haven’t seen any characters ruined IMO.  It’s more like watching a TV show where they kill off / let live different characters than the books its based on, and they leave that as a cliffhanger for the next season.  It’s not honest to the source material, but there’s the question if it ever had to be, and if you can’t deal with the implications otherwise, stick to what you know and enjoy.

 

Meanwhile playing Crisis Core now, it does such a bad job portraying these characters that it makes the whole cast feel one-dimensional.  That bothers me much more personally.