Keyser_Soze Posted November 17, 2023 Author Share Posted November 17, 2023 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 Still going in as dark on this as I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 Here's a long blog post that talks about the locations and characters FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH: Theme song, Vincent and Cid revealed! | Square Enix Blog WWW.SQUARE-ENIX-GAMES.COM In this new preview for FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH, we showcase Cid Highwind, reveal the theme song, take a trip to the Gold Saucer and much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Coverage from the current issue of Game Informer: Final Fantasy VII Rebirth Preview - Square Enix Hints At Zack's Expanded Role - Game Informer WWW.GAMEINFORMER.COM A ghost from Cloud's past plays a larger role in the middle act of the Final Fantasy VII Remake trilogy. Quote Final Fantasy VII Remake gave fans of the original game quite a shock as Cloud and the party exited Midgar. Zack, the protagonist of Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII and a key figure in Cloud, Aerith, and Sephiroth's past, appears to be alive, and helped an injured Cloud reach Midgar. This stands in stark contrast to his fate in the original continuity, where he was killed and his Buster Sword was handed over to Cloud. Zack's changed fate is emblematic of how the Final Fantasy VII Remake and Rebirth teams approached the source material. "If we trace the original and stay exactly loyal to it as is, I think that is lacking in the gaming experience itself," director Naoki Hamaguchi says. "With elements like the Whispers or Zack – these new elements introduced in Remake or Rebirth – this really gives players the feeling that based on these, perhaps the ending is going to be different from what we know from the original and have that sort of wonder and anticipation building. The mystery building is something we truly wanted players to feel in Rebirth." Final Fantasy VII Rebirth Preview - The Expanded Scene The Developers Can't Wait For Players To See - Game Informer WWW.GAMEINFORMER.COM Yoshinori Kitase, Tetsuya Nomura, and Naoki Hamaguchi are extremely excited about a certain encounter in Corel Prison. Quote Final Fantasy VII is full of iconic scenes. Whether you're talking about the well-known sequences already depicted in Remake or the upcoming gut-punch at the Forgotten Capital, the Remake trilogy allows fans to experience these moments in their most fully realized forms. While this middle portion of Final Fantasy VII, which Rebirth depicts, focuses on Aerith and the looming specter of Sephiroth, so much of Rebirth's depiction emphasizes the deepening of relationships. This is true with how the developers approached both the main story and side content in Rebirth, and it's sure to make it so Aerith's big scene (if it still plays out that way) is even more emotional than in the original. While sitting down with producer Yoshinori Kitase, creative director Tetsuya Nomura, and director Naoki Hamaguchi, we got on the topic of being able to further depict these moments through modern hardware and the longer playtime afforded by splitting the original game into three separate titles. Final Fantasy VII Rebirth Preview - Square Enix Talks Aerith's Big Scene - Game Informer WWW.GAMEINFORMER.COM Strap in, because we're digging into *that* scene in Final Fantasy VII. Quote Just as Final Fantasy VII Remake featured a predetermined endpoint – the escape from Midgar – Final Fantasy VII Rebirth players also know when their adventure will culminate in this game. The Forgotten Capital, the location that plays host to one of the most impactful moments in any video game, is the destination for the story contained within Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. Since the main story and side content of Final Fantasy VII Rebirth centers on deepening the relationships between Cloud, Aerith, Tifa, Sephiroth, and the rest of the cast, players will need to reckon with Aerith's story arc with a better understanding of the dynamics between characters. "For Rebirth, we are following Cloud and the party's journey all the way up to the Forgotten Capital where we will seek our Aerith's fate; that is the landing point for Rebirth," director Naoki Hamaguchi says. "Along the way, players will see the characters interact and deepen their bonds with each other. That is a focal point." Final Fantasy VII Rebirth Preview - How Square Enix Is Approaching Sephiroth - Game Informer WWW.GAMEINFORMER.COM We talk to Final Fantasy VII Rebirth's developers to learn how they are handling Sephiroth in this Remake follow-up. Quote Back in 1997, Final Fantasy VII established Sephiroth as one of the most iconic antagonists in gaming history. In 2020, Final Fantasy VII Remake greatly expanded his role in the first act of the beloved RPG, and in 2024, Final Fantasy VII Rebirth hopes to give us even more context for the One-Winged Angel. We played a portion of Final Fantasy VII Rebirth and spoke with several members of the development team to learn how Sephiroth is depicted in the upcoming second act of the Remake trilogy. While Sephiroth's role in this middle portion of the original Final Fantasy VII is more understated, often simply being described by NPCs rather than actually seen, the team behind Final Fantasy VII Rebirth wanted to change that. "Remake covers your encounter with Sephiroth, and now within Rebirth, we wanted to make Sephiroth this very clear antagonist and target for the characters to go and pursue through their journey in Rebirth," producer Yoshinori Kitase says. "Within the original game, Sephiroth was not seen very much in the world map, but in this title, we put this element forward." Why It Was So Important To Have An Explorable World Map In Final Fantasy VII Rebirth WWW.GAMEINFORMER.COM Final Fantasy VII Rebirth adds a crucial element back into the series according to some of the series' most iconic developers. Quote When Final Fantasy X exploded onto the PlayStation 2 in 2001, it revolutionized not just the Final Fantasy series but the role-playing genre as a whole. The tuned-to-perfection turn-based combat, the beautiful soundtrack, the heartfelt story, and the eye-popping-for-the-time visuals created one of the most important entries of one of the most important franchises in video game history. However, one element was absent from Final Fantasy X that several of the key developers involved with the project lamented: an explorable world map. For Yoshinori Kitase, a producer on Final Fantasy VII Rebirth who also served as a director on Final Fantasy VI, VII, VIII, and X, the world map's disappearance was a sore spot as someone who has been involved with the series since 1990. "We started off expressing this world that you can venture through this world map," he tells Game Informer. That was how it was for Final Fantasy I, but starting with Final Fantasy X, when we entered into this real-time 3D world, this is when the world map development ceased or halted to some degree." Final Fantasy VII Rebirth Preview - How Cait Sith's Combat Works - Game Informer WWW.GAMEINFORMER.COM We learn more about Cait Sith's combat mechanics in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. Quote In Final Fantasy VII Remake, players had the chance to thoroughly explore the movesets of Cloud, Barret, Tifa, and Aerith through an extended stay in Midgar. Final Fantasy VII Rebirth adds several new playable party members. While we already covered how one of those new playable characters, Red XIII, controls (read more here), this time, we're talking about another playable party member: Cait Sith. The cat creature joins the party during the course of Final Fantasy VII Rebirth following a brief cameo in Final Fantasy VII Remake. Just like Red XIII, he becomes a playable character for the first time in the Remake trilogy in Rebirth. As the team began adapting the underappreciated character for gameplay fitting the Remake trilogy and, in particular, Rebirth, they looked towards Cait Sith's original Final Fantasy VII mechanics. Final Fantasy VII Rebirth Preview - How Square Enix Is Filling Rebirth's World With Sidequests - Game Informer WWW.GAMEINFORMER.COM We dig into how Final Fantasy VII Rebirth is approaching side content with Square Enix's stable of developers. Quote Final Fantasy VII Remake set the tone for what players could expect from this three-part retelling of the beloved 1997 Square RPG. The excellent updates to the combat system, the fantastic expansions on character relationships, and the stellar production values told us Square Enix is not taking the responsibility of remaking one of its most iconic games lightly. However, Final Fantasy VII Rebirth looks to take several components of the experience to the next level, largely thanks to its emphasis on side content. Following the events in Midgar, as depicted in Remake, the party emerges into a vast, open area. In the original game, this was depicted through an overworld map, but in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, players remain in the same perspective as the rest of the game as they move from one point of interest to another. After the more restrictive approach to Final Fantasy VII Remake, the new sense of openness is refreshing, and something the team was deliberate in integrating, particularly when you consider how much more open this segment is during the original title. Final Fantasy VII Rebirth Preview - Exclusive Impressions From Exploring Junon - Game Informer WWW.GAMEINFORMER.COM We were able to see an extended gameplay demo for the highly anticipated Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. Quote After what I saw and played, I simply cannot wait to lose hours upon hours in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. As someone who loves Remake, continuing the story of Cloud and his friends is immediately appealing, but it's the more open nature of this game that is calling my name. In fact, according to Hamaguchi, side content makes up about 80 percent of the exploration-based content, but even just focusing on the main storyline, players can still expect about 40 hours of gameplay. Meanwhile, those who do a good amount of side content should expect approximately a 60-hour playthrough, while the most dedicated sidequesters could top the 100-hour mark for their save file. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarSolo Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Yeah, genuinely one of my gripes with all Final Fantasies since 9 was the loss of the open world map, which 15 KIND OF brought back. I’m counting down the days till this releases next month. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 How The Chaotic Development Of Final Fantasy VII Changed The Course Of The Franchise WWW.GAMEINFORMER.COM Legendary developers from Square Enix talk about the lessons learned from the creation of Final Fantasy VII. Quote When Final Fantasy VII launched on PlayStation in 1997, it revolutionized the RPG genre and gaming as a whole. The transition from pixel art to fully animated computer graphics was a massive enough leap ahead, but the beauty of this classic title was much more than skin deep. Final Fantasy VII features an incredible cast of characters, an outstanding battle system, and a story that evokes joy, awe, anger, and grief. Final Fantasy VII is well-established as one of the most iconic and beloved video games of all time, but for Square Enix, the legacy is somewhat more important. For the team behind the Final Fantasy franchise, Final Fantasy VII was the entry that made the developers realize they needed to adapt to the times. "Even within the mainline Final Fantasy titles as a series, we can consider Final Fantasy VII to be this sort of midpoint title that's in the middle of it all," Tetsuya Nomura, who was a character designer and visual director on Final Fantasy VII, says. "Up to Final Fantasy VI, it was created in a certain way, and then from VIII, there was a brand new way of approaching development, whereas VII sort of sits between those two titles as a sort of mixed-element title." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 The Making Of Final Fantasy VII Remake WWW.GAMEINFORMER.COM Square Enix's legendary designers, writers, directors, and producers tell the behind-the-scenes story of how Final Fantasy VII Remake finally answered the calls of millions of fans. Quote The ground beneath Square Enix's Tetsuya Nomura's feet trembled. In his time since serving as character designer and visual director on Final Fantasy VII, his legend has grown substantially. In addition to working on nearly every acclaimed Final Fantasy game since Nomura also helped create the Kingdom Hearts series and has become a figurehead and luminary within the stacked ranks of Square Enix's stable of developers. But this 2015 trip to Los Angeles, California, was different. PlayStation's E3 2015 livestream had just revealed a teaser trailer featuring the iconic Final Fantasy VII protagonist, Cloud Strife, walking through Midgar in glorious, modern, HD graphics. The dream of so many – a remake of the classic RPG – was finally realized. The fans weren't the only ones feeling the weight of the moment, though, and it was no longer just the ground that was shaking; it was Nomura's entire body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best3444 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 If I didn't like FF7R will I not like this? My main issue was the depressing environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted January 15 Author Share Posted January 15 11 minutes ago, best3444 said: If I didn't like FF7R will I not like this? My main issue was the depressing environment. You mean you didn't like Midgar? This takes place outside of the city that's not to say the game will be any less depressing. Did you ever play the original game? You'll know what to expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best3444 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 8 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said: You mean you didn't like Midgar? This takes place outside of the city that's not to say the game will be any less depressing. Did you ever play the original game? You'll know what to expect. Never played the original. I meant the slums that it took place in. So terrible for an environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 10 minutes ago, best3444 said: Never played the original. I meant the slums that it took place in. So terrible for an environment. I'm going in dark so I can't speak to what's on display here, but it should get a lot more lighthearted fantasy and 'open air' in terms of the environments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best3444 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 26 minutes ago, crispy4000 said: I'm going in dark so I can't speak to what's on display here, but it should get a lot more lighthearted fantasy and 'open air' in terms of the environments. That's all I'm askin for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 3 hours ago, best3444 said: That's all I'm askin for. I mean, you shouldn't play Rebirth without playing the first or at least watching all the cutscenes, but if you want to know what the environments are like in part 2, watch the first few minutes of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarSolo Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Man, I LOVED the environment of the first game. The slums ruled. The amount of screenshots I took of that game is insane. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best3444 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, MarSolo said: Man, I LOVED the environment of the first game. The slums ruled. The amount of screenshots I took of that game is insane. I appreciated it but the dark dreary environment was getting old for me. I see this is more vibrant and fantasy like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Replaying FF7 Remake and loving it. Rebirth hype is real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarSolo Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, SaysWho? said: Replaying FF7 Remake and loving it. Rebirth hype is real. I’m going to try and finish XVI before the 29th, but uh, holy shit, every time I boot this game up I get bored. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 8 minutes ago, MarSolo said: I’m going to try and finish XVI before the 29th, but uh, holy shit, every time I boot this game up I get bored. Haven't played it yet. The initial reactions are great, but I've seen people who liked the whole package a lot and people who liked it initially and then fell off. I'd love to be one of the ones who loves it. Eventually, I'll give it a fair shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 41 minutes ago, MarSolo said: I’m going to try and finish XVI before the 29th, but uh, holy shit, every time I boot this game up I get bored. It's because it's not great - my post in the FFXVI thread goes in more depth. Beautifully made on a technical level, but meh otherwise. Game was too easy on top of everything else too. I'm excited to play this game because I really liked the first, I'm all in on the divisive ending, but at the same time very wary of how stupid the story could go. It could be done really well if they're careful, but Tetsuya Nomura isn't normally one for careful or subtlety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 8 hours ago, best3444 said: That's all I'm askin for. If the slums were the only part of FF7R that you found depressing then rebirth will most likely not be depressing to you. That being said if you never finished the first part I couldn't imagine jumping into the second part. That would be like reading the first 10 pages of a book then jumping to page 100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 hours ago, SaysWho? said: Haven't played it yet. The initial reactions are great, but I've seen people who liked the whole package a lot and people who liked it initially and then fell off. I'd love to be one of the ones who loves it. Eventually, I'll give it a fair shot. Even the ones who like it like myself admit that it’s flawed. The positives still do outweigh the negatives if you do get into it. And to be frank, you’ve experienced its flaws before in games that have less of a through line to pull them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 10 hours ago, crispy4000 said: Even the ones who like it like myself admit that it’s flawed. The positives still do outweigh the negatives if you do get into it. And to be frank, you’ve experienced its flaws before in games that have less of a through line to pull them. Agreed. My summary of 16 is Good story, good graphics/art, excellent music, fun set pieces, flashy but shallow combat, almost no character customization. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 hours ago, legend said: Agreed. My summary of 16 is Good story, good graphics/art, excellent music, fun set pieces, flashy but shallow combat, almost no character customization. It also didn't feel like a Final Fantasy game all that much, and it didn't feel like an RPG all that much either. God of War: Ragnarok felt more customizable. When you fail on those two fronts, all the good it did sort of doesn't matter I felt. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best3444 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 13 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said: If the slums were the only part of FF7R that you found depressing then rebirth will most likely not be depressing to you. That being said if you never finished the first part I couldn't imagine jumping into the second part. That would be like reading the first 10 pages of a book then jumping to page 100. Well then, I'm on board at release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 3 hours ago, Greatoneshere said: It also didn't feel like a Final Fantasy game all that much, and it didn't feel like an RPG all that much either. God of War: Ragnarok felt more customizable. When you fail on those two fronts, all the good it did sort of doesn't matter I felt. I thought GoW 1 (at least) had too much fiddling with equipment for the game it was trying to be. They could have easily stripped out the loot emphasis and focused it more on the skill tree. In other words: it should be about action, not the numbers. It's strange to defend FFXVI for it being less of an RPG, but here we are. It's no fuss, just buy/craft what deals more damage and move on. Maybe swap out accessories the handful of times in the game you really should. There's no need to even pretend to min-max shit, just go with the abilities you enjoy. When so many modern games, including FF7R, have you constantly digging through menus to optimize, its sort of refreshing to have an action RPG that just lets you play the game as you want and level up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 hours ago, crispy4000 said: I thought GoW 1 (at least) had too much fiddling with equipment for the game it was trying to be. They could have easily stripped out the loot emphasis and focused it more on the skill tree. In other words: it should be about action, not the numbers. It's strange to defend FFXVI for it being less of an RPG, but here we are. It's no fuss, just buy/craft what deals more damage and move on. Maybe swap out accessories the handful of times in the game you really should. There's no need to even pretend to min-max shit, just go with the abilities you enjoy. When so many modern games, including FF7R, have you constantly digging through menus to optimize, its sort of refreshing to have an action RPG that just lets you play the game as you want and level up. I'm not saying God of War should have all that fiddling, it just shows how much of an RPG FF16 was not. "Pretend to min-max shit"? A real RPG it's not pretend, a real difficulty presents a challenge as to how to approach that enemy or that boss. Stripping it into nothing takes away the entire point of it being an RPG. I love Devil May Cry, but that's not what I want from an RPG. We have enough third person action-adventure games as it is. There's obviously a balance between "digging through menus" and nothing at all. Additionally, had the game been hard at all, managing your powers at least might have meant something, but it didn't. They already make plenty of simplified action RPG's, or action games with heavy RPG elements, why does FF16 have to or need to be one of them? You say "play the game as you want and level up" but what's the point if there's no struggle to success (except for super end game bosses)? There's no feeling to victory if I'm just playing an interactive Youtube walkthrough of the game. As a result, the game just moves from one part to the next. Hell, even the "role playing" part of RPG isn't there as you hardly interact with your teammates all at once, and never have an entire crew you bond with over the course of the adventure except NPC's at home base (compare this to the four dudes in FF15 who you do truly get to know over the course of the game together). It's just 1-on-1's between Clive and Jill, Clive and Gav, Clive and whoever, etc. I think there were like 5 scenes where there were more than 3 important characters sharing a scene together. It's all very stilted and as pretty and technically impressive as the game is, it means nothing if it has a bog-standard story. Hell, unlike most "JRPG's", FF16 couldn't even bother to at least be weird. I gave the game a 7/10, not saying it's a terrible game, but certainly not a Final Fantasy RPG in any sort of traditional sense. It shouldn't have been a mainline numbered Final Fantasy game as a result. It's more Stranger than Paradise: Final Fantasy Origins (aka a spinoff) than it is FF16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 54 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: There's obviously a balance between "digging through menus" and nothing at all. Incidentally, I think FF7R did a good job finding this balance! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 minutes ago, legend said: Incidentally, I think FF7R did a good job finding this balance! I did as well! Video game UI's have become absolute shit in general, and FF7R really isn't much better with that, but it's certainly more of an RPG than FF16 by a wide margin and the menus were fine in terms of how many menus there were and how many tabs deep you had to go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said: "Pretend to min-max shit"? A real RPG it's not pretend, a real difficulty presents a challenge as to how to approach that enemy or that boss. Stripping it into nothing takes away the entire point of it being an RPG. Most games today, RPGs or not, do not require min-maxing to beat bosses. Too often it’s just an exercise to kill damage sponge foes a little faster. But hey, you feel accomplishment. My larger point is that not every game, or RPG even, needs to go down this route of giving you menu busywork to deal marginally more and live marginally longer. We’ve got too many of those across too many genres now. Which is why I don’t mind FFXVI’s relative simplicity today. You do allocate skill points, so it’s not like the game went full FFIV either. 1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said: They already make plenty of simplified action RPG's, or action games with heavy RPG elements, why does FF16 have to or need to be one of them? I can’t think of many modern day simple action RPGs, especially not with FFXVI’s productions values. Its pushing back against the norm. So why should it have to conform? 1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said: You say "play the game as you want and level up" but what's the point if there's no struggle to success (except for super end game bosses)? There's no feeling to victory if I'm just playing an interactive Youtube walkthrough of the game. As a result, the game just moves from one part to the next. I don’t think this describes the combat well. It’s not a passive affair: you need to dodge, heal, manage cooldowns, not misuse abilities with long cooldowns, switch to Garuda for stagger, etc. It’s definitely not a Souls-like, and that’s okay. I always found enough pushback and attack variety in the larger encounters for it not to feel autopilot. Sometimes that’s all a game needs, instead of feeling punishing. As far as I’m concerned, FFXVI still plays the power fantasy card well, both in terms of the MC and bosses. 1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said: Hell, even the "role playing" part of RPG isn't there as you hardly interact with your teammates all at once, and never have an entire crew you bond with over the course of the adventure except NPC's at home base (compare this to the four dudes in FF15 who you do truly get to know over the course of the game together). It's just 1-on-1's between Clive and Jill, Clive and Gav, Clive and whoever, etc. I think there were like 5 scenes where there were more than 3 important characters sharing a scene together. The power of friendship trope is so overplayed in JRPGs that I honestly didn’t mind the one-on-one focus. It’s more disappointing to me that you can’t play as any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 30 minutes ago, crispy4000 said: Most games today, RPGs or not, do not require min-maxing to beat bosses. Too often it’s just an exercise to kill damage sponge foes a little faster. But hey, you feel accomplishment. My larger point is that not every game, or RPG even, needs to go down this route of giving you menu busywork to deal marginally more and live marginally longer. We’ve got too many of those across too many genres now. Which is why I don’t mind FFXVI’s relative simplicity today. You do allocate skill points, so it’s not like the game went full FFIV either. I think we're speaking past each other. I'm not sure what games you're playing, but Frostpunk, King Arthur: Knight's Tale, Hades, Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate III, etc. are not pointless exercises in menu min-maxing. Regardless, my main point is this: FF16 is way too easy, which makes it way too boring. It doesn't matter if it's simple when it's so easy I'm just pressing the same buttons over and over. That's not gameplay. You do allocate points, and it doesn't really matter what you allocate to what. Know the simple strength to weakness element or whatever, then go for it. You're really going to bat for FF16's gameplay? Maybe if you're an RPG beginner it's interesting but just swapping to the next "better" item without any deviations in terms of needing to make a choice between different kinds of items is just a pointless exercise. 30 minutes ago, crispy4000 said: I can’t think of many modern day simple action RPGs, especially not with FFXVI’s productions values. Its pushing back against the norm. So why should it have to conform? God of War, Devil May Cry 5, Dead Space remake, RE4 remake, and Jedi Survivor just to name a few that felt just as "action RPG" as FF16 did. To me, FF16 and Jedi Survivor aren't very different except Jedi Survivor has platforming and the like. You have a home base that populates as you play further into the game as you unlock stances/powers with enemies you can pretty much mow down and bosses that aren't hard for the most part. You interact with those NPC's back at base. FF16 was also on rails, you do everything as it unlocks for an area and you rarely need to "explore" that area again. FF16 is more action than RPG, just like the aforementioned games. 30 minutes ago, crispy4000 said: I don’t think describes the combat well. It’s not a passive affair: you need to dodge, heal, manage cooldowns, not misuse abilities with long cooldowns, switch to Garuda for stagger, etc. It’s not a Souls-like, and that’s okay. I always found enough pushback and attack variety in the larger encounters for it not to feel autopilot. Sometimes that’s all a game needs, instead of feeling punishing. As far as I’m concerned, FFXVI still plays the power fantasy card well, both in terms of the MC and bosses. I didn't say it was a passive affair, it was an easy affair (and I played on whatever the hardest difficulty they let you choose at the open, which I think is normal). It's all rote, functional. There's no thought to what I was doing, I probably haven't played an easier game in years. There's not punishing, and there's a game that feels made for a beginner at every turn. 30 minutes ago, crispy4000 said: The power of friendship trope is so overplayed in JRPGs that I honestly didn’t mind the one-on-one focus. It’s more disappointing to me that you can’t play as any of them. What? Being "weird" doesn't mean the power of friendship (see 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim). You can have plenty of 1-on-1 interactions and party interactions. It's also about filling out the other characters: how does Jill feel about many of the other characters? We don't know, she's rarely seen talking to anyone but Clive. How about his uncle? Same problem. They don't feel like they have inner lives or thoughts except as what relates to either Clive, his core family, or the main plot. You seem to be missing my problem with this game - look at all numbered Final Fantasy games. No matter how varied or different they can get per game, they primarily remain RPG's, making them more action-y or not. This was not that. How you can look back at the previous mainline numbered Final Fantasies, be fans of them, and then be happy with this as an "RPG" is pretty surprising to me. They stopped just short of making Kingdom Hearts. I 100%'ed this game, so I did everything possible. Again, it doesn't help that the story is straightforward and kind of boring and you hardly learn more than two things about any character, particularly the villains, who come and go in arcs never to return again, which was also weird. If Square Enix had released this game and called it "For the Throne" or something (like with Forspoken), I would have zero problem with it. I wouldn't have played it and moved on. But to make this a mainline numbered Final Fantasy game implies at least some things, of which this had none, or so reduced as to be a distinction without a difference to none. For me, the game was very unfulfilling is the best way I can put it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said: Regardless, my main point is this: FF16 is way too easy, which makes it way too boring. It doesn't matter if it's simple when it's so easy I'm just pressing the same buttons over and over. That's not gameplay. Thank goodness fun doesn’t have a direct correlation to difficulty. I personally found the combat plenty engaging outside of trash mobs by the end of the game. All RPGs get repetitive on some level, and by the end of FFXVI I could tolerate the tedium better than most, I’d say. Especially because the boss fights do get those lavish production values with unique attacks to dodge. It’s easy, yes, but I felt enough pushback and resistance to have a good time. And to me, that’s what matters - I found combat engaging on the whole. Regardless, “pressing the same buttons over and over … that’s not gameplay” is weak criticism that could stereotype most any action game. So are similar critiques you leverage throughout your reply. I didn’t find FFXVI’s combat any more ‘button pushy’ than games with better combat, like God of War. Almost all action games, even the best ones, become rote on some level as you learn to play them well. And no, I don’t feel bad about defending it when you ask ‘seriously?’ I’ll get to the rest of your criticisms later tonight. But I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a JRPG focus less on party interactions. Sometimes it’s more interesting to focus on world events and scenarios than checking off boxes on the character interaction matrix chart, or throwing in ‘skits’ because character X hasn’t talked to Y lately. And you know what, I’ve enjoyed RPGs that have leaned into any one of those things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 41 minutes ago, crispy4000 said: Thank goodness fun doesn’t have a direct correlation to difficulty. I personally found the combat plenty engaging outside of trash mobs by the end of the game. All RPGs get repetitive on some level, and by the end of FFXVI I could tolerate the tedium better than most, I’d say. Especially because the boss fights do get those lavish production values with unique attacks to dodge. It’s easy, yes, but I felt enough pushback and resistance to have a good time. And to me, that’s what matters - I found combat engaging on the whole. Regardless, “pressing the same buttons over and over … that’s not gameplay” is weak criticism that could stereotype most any action game. So are similar critiques you leverage throughout your reply. I didn’t find FFXVI’s combat any more ‘button pushy’ than games with better combat, like God of War. Almost all action games, even the best ones, become rote on some level as you learn to play them well. And no, I don’t feel bad about defending it when you ask ‘seriously?’ I’ll get to the rest of your criticisms later tonight. But I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a JRPG focus less on party interactions. Sometimes it’s more interesting to focus on world events and scenarios than checking off boxes on the character interaction matrix chart, or throwing in ‘skits’ because character X hasn’t talked to Y lately. And you know what, I’ve enjoyed RPGs that have leaned into any one of those things. You keep boiling down my individual points without responding to the whole. If the game was any one of those things then it wouldn't be a problem. Easy gameplay? Hopefully an engaging story. Bad story? Hopefully fun and interesting characters with good dialogue. Stilted, overly medieval trope-y characters? Hopefully an interesting exploration game. The problem with FF16 is it does none of these things exceptionally well or poorly, which is why it feels like such a bland and boring/straightforward game to me. It's disingenuous for you to suggest I somehow am saying if a game isn't hard, it isn't fun. In all of my posts in this thread I'm saying - hey, it doesn't do this well, the problem is it didn't do that well either, nor this, nor that. The game is easy. Okay, you don't care. The combat is incredibly straightforward. Okay, that doesn't bother you. The game isn't much of an RPG, with a lack of depth. Okay, you're fine with complete simplicity. The combat isn't challenging. Okay, you think combat doesn't need to be hard to be fun. The game doesn't focus on character interplay or interactions. Okay, you think the worldbuilding and political gamesmanship makes that irrelevant. The worldbuilding and politics were basic at best. Okay, you don't thing it was basic (Game of Thrones was more complex and that's not saying much). This could go on and on. You say that all combat "becomes rote on some level", which is reductive - we're obviously talking about a sliding scale of when and to what degree it becomes or feels rote. FF16 becomes rote quite quickly - you don't even need the last two summons, which you receive way late in the game, to do most of the game (just as an example). I was frequently just spamming the same timed cycles of various special moves while teleporting to different enemies from pretty early on, easily leveling them up without any need to concern myself with allocation of points for moves or strategy. My point is, the game is the sum of everything it is lacking, not just any one single thing. I'm just genuinely surprised anyone could have found FF16's combat engaging. Flashy, easy, fun for a time, sure, but engaging? I'm not sure what difficulty you play games on, but I can tell you gameplay gets a lot less rote on harder difficulties where you are far more forced to diversify your gameplay combat styles to adapt to the changing types of enemies, etc. FF16 did this in basically name only. From what you describe, you didn't want an RPG nor care it wasn't one. Calling this an RPG is a joke - what exactly about it makes it an RPG on anything but the most basic levels? If you're response is: that's why I like it, well, I guess I'm looking for something a bit more compelling myself when it comes to a mainline, triple AAA, numbered Final Fantasy game. I'm glad you liked the game, clearly you're not seeing what I'm seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 You already know I disagree with you about the larger picture. I’m not intending to avoid it. I mentioned some of the things I felt it did well in the review thread. Dialogue is much better written than modern FF has been IMO, action sequences and set piece moments are all are bombastic and fun and largely succeed in bringing back the fun of summons, I enjoyed all the villains, I think the combat was enjoyable throughout, the war politics and presentation of it was neat, what it stripped back let me enjoy more of what the game does well (and also unfortunately highlighted more of the things it does get bogged down with). I don’t feel the need to weigh individual weaknesses against strengths when it comes to the lager picture. As I said in my review, its a flawed game I still feel very positive about, all said and done. This is a game worth playing in my book. Oh and yes, engaging gameplay to me can come of all difficulty stripes. I don’t discriminate. I’ve loved me some Kirby games, just as much as I’ve loved bullshit I’ve white knuckled through like F-Zero GX. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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