b_m_b_m_b_m Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 "But eventually they'll have to sell the unrealized gains and pay taxes on that" lol no they probably won't, or at least it's far from guaranteed. See the "buy, borrow, die" strategy: Have/buy assets, borrow against some of the gains, estate pays the gains back upon death and the assets should be in a trust so that you don't even pay estate taxes, cycle continues with heirs. gg;wp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 If America were a game of Civilization, we would have restarted that bitch a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 28 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: I agree that the ultra rich could afford to pay more. But this particular tweet is kind of dumb. It talks about how wage earners (I'm assuming they mean middle/lower class) accounted for $143 billion in tax revenue, but something like 50% of all revenue is generated by 10% of the population, which are those people making $150k or more per year. Here is a breakdown for different earners paid in income taxes in 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 21 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: I agree that the ultra rich could afford to pay more. But this particular tweet is kind of dumb. It talks about how wage earners (I'm assuming they mean middle/lower class) accounted for $143 billion in tax revenue, but something like 50% of all revenue is generated by 10% of the population, which are those people making $150k or more per year. Here is a breakdown for different earners paid in income taxes in 2018. I’m inherently skeptical of any tax research body that’s opposed to tax increases, that supported the Ryan tax plan, and has an emphasis on balancing the budget via spending cuts unless we’re talking about the military. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said: I’m inherently skeptical of any tax research body that’s opposed to tax increases, that supported the Ryan tax plan, and has an emphasis on balancing the budget via spending cuts unless we’re talking about the military. It was the first link I found on Google - if you can find data that shows different wealth groups paying different amounts in taxes, I'd like to see it. Doesn't the treasury create reports every year with the breakdown in tax revenue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 minute ago, mclumber1 said: It was the first link I found on Google - if you can find data that shows different wealth groups paying different amounts in taxes, I'd like to see it. Doesn't the treasury create reports every year with the breakdown in tax revenue? Oh I have no idea, they just fail my, “do you like anything related to Paul Ryan’s fiscal philosophy” litmus test, so whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 44 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: I agree that the ultra rich could afford to pay more. But this particular tweet is kind of dumb. It talks about how wage earners (I'm assuming they mean middle/lower class) accounted for $143 billion in tax revenue, but something like 50% of all revenue is generated by 10% of the population, which are those people making $150k or more per year. Here is a breakdown for different earners paid in income taxes in 2018. It's not dumb if you consider that they should be taxed on unrealized gains Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Much like the Panama Papers, this will slide right through our brains because we already understood this to be how the world works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaku3 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 2 hours ago, thewhyteboar said: If America were a game of Civilization, we would have restarted that bitch a long time ago. If America was a game of Victoria 2 I'd be dealing with violent socialist/communist rebellions. Probably will be the case in Vicky 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricofoley Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted June 9, 2021 Author Share Posted June 9, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 22 hours ago, CayceG said: Much like the Panama Papers, this will slide right through our brains because we already understood this to be how the world works. yep. I think we all knew this to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 22 hours ago, CayceG said: Much like the Panama Papers, this will slide right through our brains because we already understood this to be how the world works. "No longer available due to a copyright claim by Netflix." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted June 9, 2021 Author Share Posted June 9, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 2 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: I do really wish they'd given a real number for what the "true tax rate" of the average American is, even if it was a rough estimate. At some point they mention that wage earners in their 40s typically saw their net worth expand by $65,000 a year, and slightly earlier they said the median household earned $70,000 a year, but the methodology page makes it clear the former is a subset of the latter, so the numbers can't be directly compared. In the graphic they used they showed that "typical wealth growth" was less than typical taxes, and that the typical income tax was 14%, but they either messed up or decided that ascetics were more important than data in their visualization, because the "typical taxes" box is not to scale with the income. I feel like it hurts their argument when they keep comparing apples and oranges, especially since comparing apples to apples almost certainly wouldn't change their argument, and even bolster it in some demographics. For most Americans wealth growth follows increased income, but because most of their wealth comes from wages, they pay an increasingly higher "true tax rate," obviously not the case with the billionaires they profile. I guess it would be much harder to figure out those numbers, or even how to calculate it across demographics (which is why they took such a small slice for many of their "typical" numbers), but it would be easier and more honest if you could say the median "true tax rate" of Americans is 12% or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air_Delivery Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Comparing unrealized gains to income is just kinda dumb. The main problem is the ultra wealthy have a ton of ways to avoid taxes when converting those unrealized gains to cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 There’s truly no apples to apples comparison to be made with the wealth and tax discrepancies being discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 13 hours ago, Kal-El814 said: There’s truly no apples to apples comparison to be made with the wealth and tax discrepancies being discussed. I don't even understand the complaint. Comparing the available wealth and tax obligation of two different people is fair. It's not apples to oranges in any prohibitive way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air_Delivery Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Anathema- said: I don't even understand the complaint. Comparing the available wealth and tax obligation of two different people is fair. It's not apples to oranges in any prohibitive way. Because unrealized gains is not the same as cash. Its as simple as that. The issue is how they avoid taxes on the cash they do get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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