General Gaming Six Days in Fallujah (game based on the 2004 urban war crime in Iraq) - update: multiple article slagging this abomination posted

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

I...uhhhhh....what?

 

Konami’s cancelled Six Days in Fallujah has been revived | VGC

WWW.VIDEOGAMESCHRONICLE.COM

---

War game based on real-life battle will finally release this year…

 

Six Days in Fallujah on Steam

STORE.STEAMPOWERED.COM

---

Six Days in Fallujah is a first-person tactical military shooter that recreates true stories of Marines, Soldiers, and Iraqi civilians who fought Al Qaeda during the toughest urban battle since 1968.

 

 

[Keyser_Soze]

There's never been a better time!

[osxmatt]

I remember following this game pretty closely back then, at least as closely as the information at the time would allow for.

 

I'll keep an eye on this.

[Brick]

Relevant video I remember about this

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

I can't wait to see how the game "addresses" the issue of the documented war crimes that were committed in the Second Battle of Fallujah. 

 

I have no doubt that the topic will be approached in a sensitive, morally responsible mann...

 

...OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO  Who am I kidding?!? OLOLOLOLOLOLOLO

[Kal-El814]

11 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

I can't wait to see how the game "addresses" the issue of the documented war crimes that were committed in the Second Battle of Fallujah. 

 

I have no doubt that the topic will be approached in a sensitive, morally responsible mann...

 

...OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO  Who am I kidding?!? OLOLOLOLOLOLOLO

 

Press F to commit war crimes.

[skillzdadirecta]

3 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Press F to commit war crimes.

I remember a game that had something like this... press "" to torture or something.

[Brick]

1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I remember a game that had something like this... press "" to torture or something.

 

Didn't GTAV have a torture scene that a lot of people took issue with? 

[skillzdadirecta]

2 minutes ago, Brick said:

 

Didn't GTAV have a torture scene that a lot of people took issue with? 

I remember one of the Call of Duty's did too.

[Brick]

3 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I remember one of the Call of Duty's did too.

 

There's been a few from what I remember. CoD4 had a scene with Price punching al-Asad for info on who gave him the nuke. MW2 had a scene where they have a guy tied to a chair, and about to hook cables from a car battery to him before they give you your orders and close the garage door before you see anything. Black Ops had a scene where you put a piece of broken glass in a guy's mouth, and then punch him for info. 2019's Modern Warfare had an interactive water boarding scene that was in really poor taste, as well as a scene where you threaten a guy's family to get info. 

[Keyser_Soze]

5 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

I can't wait to see how the game "addresses" the issue of the documented war crimes that were committed in the Second Battle of Fallujah.

 

Voiced by honorable retired war veteran Eddie Gallagher

[Keyser_Soze]

32 minutes ago, Brick said:

 

There's been a few from what I remember. CoD4 had a scene with Price punching al-Asad for info on who gave him the nuke. MW2 had a scene where they have a guy tied to a chair, and about to hook cables from a car battery to him before they give you your orders and close the garage door before you see anything. Black Ops had a scene where you put a piece of broken glass in a guy's mouth, and then punch him for info. 2019's Modern Warfare had an interactive water boarding scene that was in really poor taste, as well as a scene where you threaten a guy's family to get info. 

 

COD also had No Russian which was torture enough.

[Moa]

Spec Ops is kind of the high water mark for serious narrative war games. The problem with these games is that they make the senseless murder too fun to provide meaningful commentary, fortunately Spec Ops sidestepped that issue by being boring as shit.

[Bloodporne]

Fucking stupid. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO

 

Six Days in Fallujah ‘not trying to make a political commentary,’ creator says

WWW.POLYGON.COM

---

An interview with the publisher of the controversial Iraq War shooter.

[Keyser_Soze]

So it's an Ubisoft game?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

36 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

So it's an Ubisoft game?

 

Ubisoft at least has the good sense to stay the hell away from subject matter like this.

[Brick]

2 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Ubisoft at least has the good sense to stay the hell away from subject matter like this.

 

Is that the right attitude we should have for games tackling this kind of subject matter though? I mean obviously we don't know how the game will be yet, it might be a flaming pile of sensationalist, exploitative, jingoist dog shit, but if we take them at their word that they want to tell this story within the context of a game in a respectful manner the same way a movie would (which absolutely would not get any sideways glances), and it actually does turn out to be a thought provoking, and well done game, shouldn't we encourage that? Watch the video I posted above if you haven't. If we want gaming to mature and evolve as a serious storytelling, and artistic medium, we should welcome these kinds of games if a developer wants to make them, rather than putting up barriers going, "no that's a real life event, and you're not allowed to make a video game of that". We should encourage more serious games, while still of course calling them out if they turn out like shit (which again this game very well might, especially with the war crime accusations of the real event, which I do doubt the game will address). An I skeptical this game will pull it all off? Yes, but I'm keeping a hopeful eye on it. I would love for another game like Spec Ops: The Line. 

 

As for the "political" thing, I can't decide what I'm more sick of; developers saying their clearly political game isn't political just because it doesn't deal with governmental rivalries (i.e. Republican/Conservative vs. Democrat/Liberal), or outlets asking developers if their game is political for the same reason when they know full well it's not going to dive into those kinds of politics. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

15 minutes ago, Brick said:

Is that the right attitude we should have for games tackling this kind of subject matter though? I mean obviously we don't know how the game will be yet, it might be a flaming pile of sensationalist, exploitative, jingoist dog shit, but if we take them at their word that they want to tell this story within the context of a game in a respectful manner the same way a movie would (which absolutely would not get any sideways glances), and it actually does turn out to be a thought provoking, and well done game, shouldn't we encourage that? Watch the video I posted above if you haven't. If we want gaming to mature and evolve as a serious storytelling, and artistic medium, we should welcome these kinds of games if a developer wants to make them, rather than putting up barriers going, "no that's a real life event, and you're not allowed to make a video game of that". We should encourage more serious games, while still of course calling them out if they turn out like shit (which again this game very well might, especially with the war crime accusations of the real event, which I do doubt the game will address). An I skeptical this game will pull it all off? Yes, but I'm keeping a hopeful eye on it. I would love for another game like Spec Ops: The Line. 

 

The developers are consultants for the Marine Corps and they explicitly state that they're not going to acknowledge any of the issues surrounding the events of Operation Phantom Fury (the code name for the Second Battle of Fallujah on which this game is based). From the Polygon interview:

 

Quote

 

For us as a team, it is really about helping players understand the complexity of urban combat. It’s about the experiences of that individual that is now there because of political decisions. And we do want to show how choices that are made by policymakers affect the choices that [a Marine] needs to make on the battlefield. Just as that [Marine] cannot second-guess the choices by the policymakers, we’re not trying to make a political commentary about whether or not the war itself was a good or a bad idea.”

 

The U.S. military has said that it used “shake-and-bake” tactics, a combination of high explosive and white phosphorus rounds that flushed out insurgents from their hardened bunkers in order to destroy them. But using white phosphorus as a weapon, and in close proximity to civilians, would seem to contravene the accepted laws of war. Again, Tamte isn’t interested in litigating what constitutes a war crime.

 

“There are things that divide us, and including those really divisive things, I think, distracts people from the human stories that we can all identify with,” Tamte said. “I have two concerns with including phosphorus as a weapon. Number one is that it’s not a part of the stories that these guys told us, so I don’t have an authentic, factual basis on which to tell that. That’s most important. Number two is, I don’t want sensational types of things to distract from the parts of that experience.”

 

 

Furthermore, the insurgents that the player will be fighting are characterized as belonging to al-Qaeda and while it is absolutely true that AQ and AQ-affiliated groups were present in Fallujah in 2004, they were not the only insurgent group represented.  There were many non-AQ fighters present who didn't want anything to do with AQ's Islamist ideology, but sure as hell despised Americans who wanted to bomb "democracy" into Iraq.

 

This ain't gonna be  Spec Ops: The Line Part II - this is going to be exploitative jingoistic dogshit.  It will be a higher class of exploitative jingoistic dogshit wrapped up in a nice gauzy filter, but make no mistake about what it's going to be.

[TwinIon]

1 minute ago, Brick said:

 

Is that the right attitude we should have for games tackling this kind of subject matter though? I mean obviously we don't know how the game will be yet, it might be a flaming pile of sensationalist, exploitative, jingoist dog shit, but if we take them at their word that they want to tell this story within the context of a game in a respectful manner the same way a movie would (which absolutely would not get any sideways glances), and it actually does turn out to be a thought provoking, and well done game, shouldn't we encourage that? Watch the video I posted above if you haven't. If we want gaming to mature and evolve as a serious storytelling, and artistic medium, we should welcome these kinds of games if a developer wants to make them, rather than putting up barriers going, "no that's a real life event, and you're not allowed to make a video game of that". We should encourage more serious games, while still of course calling them out if they turn out like shit (which again this game very well might, especially with the war crime accusations of the real event, which I do doubt the game will address). An I skeptical this game will pull it all off? Yes, but I'm keeping a hopeful eye on it. I would love for another game like Spec Ops: The Line. 

 

As for the "political" thing, I can't decide what I'm more sick of; developers saying their clearly political game isn't political just because it doesn't deal with governmental rivalries (i.e. Republican/Conservative vs. Democrat/Liberal), or outlets asking developers if their game is political for the same reason when they know full well it's not going to dive into those kinds of politics. 

 

I absolutely want to see both games as a medium and the conversations that surround games "grow up" and be increasingly capable of having difficult conversations. Especially in bigger budget titles. I want to see games tackle hard issues and take a larger role in defining the cultural conversation in any given topic.

 

That said, I don't understand the idea that you'd make this specific game and not want to make a political statement.

 

In movie terms, I think it's the difference between the Hurt Locker and Zero Dark Thirty. The Hurt Locker is what I think the devs of this game are shooting for. It's generally apolitical, unconcerned about the war itself and instead focused on the its impact on a man and the decisions he makes in a war zone. Zero Dark Thirty is an attempted retelling of actual events, and I'd argue by doing so is inherently political. Regardless of the accuracy, when you're telling a real life story, you're making decisions about what and how to portray certain things, which are all political when it comes to war.

 

If the developers wanted to make an apolitical game about the urban warfare of Fallujah, I think they'd have been better off with an unspecific setting. It gives you much more latitude what you can create and sidesteps all the issues they clearly don't want to address, like war crimes or the politics surrounding the conflict. By selecting a real life battle, you're inheriting all the baggage that comes with it, like it or not.

 

 

[Brick]

10 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

The developers are consultants for the Marine Corps and they explicitly state that they're not going to acknowledge any of the issues surrounding the events of Operation Phantom Fury (the code name for the Second Battle of Fallujah on which this game is based). From the Polygon interview:

 

 

Furthermore, the insurgents that the player will be fighting are characterized as belonging to al-Qaeda and while it is absolutely true that AQ and AQ-affiliated groups were present in Fallujah in 2004, they were not the only insurgent group represented.  There were many non-AQ fighters present who didn't want anything to do with AQ's Islamist ideology, but sure as hell despised Americans who wanted to bomb "democracy" into Iraq.

 

This ain't gonna be  Spec Ops: The Line Part II - this is going to be exploitative jingoistic dogshit.  It will be a higher class of exploitative jingoistic dogshit wrapped up in a nice gauzy filter, but make no mistake about what it's going to be.

 

Let me be a bit more clear, I do not think this game will be the next Spec Ops: The Line, and it more than likely will be a shit game. My issue is more at the "Publisher X has the good sense to stay away from this subject matter". I would love to see more AAA publishers fund games that tackle difficult subject matter, and not have it always relegated to the indie scene with games like Papers, Please and This War of Mine. We still see the mentality of, "is this an appropriate thing to make a video game of" and if we want this art form to grow we need to get over this bump. Had 6 Days in Fallujah been a 6 part mini series on HBO no one would bat an eye. Again, you're right that this is more than likely going to be shit, especially with the developers being Marine Corps consultants, so it's going to be propaganda bullshit (I'll hold out hope that the game turns out to be at least decent because I'm ever the optimist, even when I know to expect better), but I do think the subject matter is one that should be explored through this medium. 

 

Imagine a day when a game can be based on something horrible like the Boston Marathon Bombing, but instead of people reacting shocked that a game would base itself on that, instead they're intrigued by how it will be told, and it turns out really well, and people are talking about it in a positive manner. I'm sure that day is still far off, but I would like to know it's coming (as long as Marky Mark isn't involved of course ).

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Neil Druckmann has weighed in and essentially echoes what @TwinIon said so very eloquently.

 

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

 

Ahahahahahahahahaha!

 

The game's practically a CIA psy-op.

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Rami Ismail totally went off on this shit:

 

 

[Keyser_Soze]

9 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Ubisoft at least has the good sense to stay the hell away from subject matter like this.

 

No they have the exact same subject matter but fictionalize it, dress it up as political, then say it's not political so they don't upset anyone. And then put that "we are gamers of all faith, gender, etc." disclaimer in front of their game.

[gamer.tv]

My heart tells me that the only way this could be OK would be as an RTS game with some horrific story development. Any kind of first or third person combat would completely devalue the content.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Six Days in Fallujah publisher does a 180, now says the game is 'inseparable from politics' | PC Gamer

WWW.PCGAMER.COM

---

"We understand the events recreated in Six Days in Fallujah are inseparable from politics."

 

[Mr.Vic20]

 

Oh really? 

[Brick]

Oh look, they grew half a nut. 

[Moa]

I mean, if you actually read the full quote that generated the first headline it's clear that the developers understood that the subject was inherently political. 

 

“For us as a team, it is really about helping players understand the complexity of urban combat. It’s about the experiences of that individual that is now there because of political decisions. And we do want to show how choices that are made by policymakers affect the choices that [a Marine] needs to make on the battlefield. Just as that [Marine] cannot second-guess the choices by the policymakers, we’re not trying to make a political commentary about whether or not the war itself was a good or a bad idea.”

[Jason]

On 2/11/2021 at 2:02 PM, Kal-El814 said:

Press F to commit war crimes.

 

Press X to not drone the innocent children.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Holy shit! 

 

An honest-to-God REAL journalistic story about why this game is such a bad idea FROM IGN OF ALL PLACES!

 

Six Days in Fallujah Is Complicated and Painful For Those Connected to the Real Events - IGN

WWW.IGN.COM

---

Those with connections to the Second Battle of Fallujah discuss the Middle East in media and mistrust of the US military, and ask who Six Days in Fallujah will empathize with.

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Quote

But criticism of Six Days in Fallujah doesn’t stem only from those with connections to the Arab and Iraqi communities. John Phipps, a veteran involved in the Second Battle of Fallujah, expressed similar worries about the messaging surrounding the game, agreeing that a Western, military perspective on Fallujah was not a trustworthy one.

 

"There is a massive unwillingness on the part of American media, no matter what form of media it is, to portray US soldiers as the antagonists or the bad guys, which, in that instance, we were," he said.

 

Phipps added that he also felt the Six Days in Fallujah team's promises to portray war in an especially realistic way could not reasonably be fulfilled, regardless of which side the battle was shown from.

 

[Kal-El814]

 

Imagine not being able to write about a game because you’re worried that the US is going to fuck with your visa.

 

Also a procedurally generated Fallujah in the interest of keeping players on their toes is... ugh I don’t have the words.

[Keyser_Soze]

So it's like Rainbow Six but you break into random people's homes?