SaysWho? Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jason said: German (and remember, English is a Germanic language) uses the same exact word for "she" and "they". Which I'm guessing is why singular they goes back as far as the 14th century like @Commissar SFLUFAN was mentioning, when English was still way more blatantly Germanic. tbh, I didn't know English was a Germanic language. O_O But my g/f (@Keyser_Soze) speaks good German so now I know what our dinner convo will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, SaysWho? said: Maybe I misinterpreted, but isn't elle the gender neutral pronoun there? Ella/El are female/male? @Joe-bi-wan Kenobi, you're our only hope. Elle isn't a word in Spanish. At least not one my gringo ass knows. You would say ellos much like in English "they." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Joe said: Elle isn't a word in Spanish. At least not one my gringo ass knows. I say vosotros and all the Latinos get triggered. @GeneticBlueprint @SuperSpreader amirite? Looks like there's no standard, so I must have read this a while ago and not remembered that the word isn't uniform. spanish+gender+neutral+pronoun - Google Search WWW.GOOGLE.COM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, SaysWho? said: tbh, I didn't know English was a Germanic language. O_O But my g/f (@Keyser_Soze) speaks good German so now I know what our dinner convo will be. Guten tag. Ich bin ihre freundin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 47 minutes ago, Jason said: Have you actually tried doing that anytime recently? Sooooo many fucking dead links in Wikipedia citations sections. Not super recent but probably as recently as within a year and it was fine. But most of the stuff I reference are academic topics and those tend to have stable archived references. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Just now, Keyser_Soze said: Guten tag. Ich bin ihre freundin. Es gab eine Zeit, in der ich nicht verstanden habe, was Sie geschrieben haben. Ich verstehe das jetzt jedoch. Meistens, weil Scheiße alles im Kopf ist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 1 minute ago, legend said: Not super recent but probably as recently as within a year and it was fine. But most of the stuff I reference are academic topics and those tend to have stable archived references. I'm pretty sure I ran into this even trying to look into a physics topic, wasn't sure where to start so I figured Wikipedia overview+citations would be a good jumping off point, but nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Just now, SaysWho? said: Es gab eine Zeit, in der ich nicht verstanden habe, was Sie geschrieben haben. Ich verstehe das jetzt jedoch. Meistens, weil Scheiße alles im Kopf ist. Es tut mir leid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Just now, Jason said: I'm pretty sure I ran into this even trying to look into a physics topic, wasn't sure where to start so I figured Wikipedia overview+citations would be a good jumping off point, but nope. How did phsycis papers not have stable archived links?? Is non CS academia still in the stone age? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Ich will @Nokra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Just now, legend said: How did phsycis papers not have stable archived links?? Is non CS academia still in the stone age? I mean physics has arXiv. It was a few years ago so I can't say for sure, but I'm guessing it was something like the HyperPhysics websites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Jason said: Ich will @Nokra. No! He'll lock the thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 And for what I was doing a full paper would have been overkill, I just needed a basic understanding and something citable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, SaysWho? said: Looks like there's no standard, so I must have read this a while ago and not remembered that the word isn't uniform. spanish+gender+neutral+pronoun - Google Search WWW.GOOGLE.COM How do you even pronounce this?! @Ghost_MH Necesito ayuda, señor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jason said: I mean physics has arXiv. It was a few years ago so I can't say for sure, but I'm guessing it was something like the HyperPhysics websites. Weird. Generally I see academic links. In the worst case, it links to a pay-walled academic link, in which case I just search the paper on google scholar and get it for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_MH Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, Joe said: How do you even pronounce this?! @Ghost_MH Necesito ayuda, señor. That's not real. I refuse to believe it. That's got to be less a real thing than Latinx. It doesn't even solve the pronoun issue Spanish has if you're trying to create genderless pronouns. Latinx I get. I've never used it in Spanish, but it makes sense to me in an English setting where English is already genderless. Elle is just awkward. I'm assuming it's pronounced similarly to ella. That would be, what? Elle and elles. Yeah, I don't like that one. I get it, but I just tried it and it isn't very recognizable for what it's trying to convey. Like, if you tried to say "the actor, Eliott Page" in Spanish, that works fine. "el actor Eliott Page". How do you remove the gender from that? It would be a ridiculously huge undertaking that I don't know is possible, especially in these inorganic ways. Elliot Page, la estrella de 'Juno', comunica su identidad transgénero | CNN CNNESPANOL.CNN.COM El martes, la estrella nominada al Oscar de películas como "Juno" y "X-Men: Days of Future Past" compartió con los fanáticos que es transgénero y se identifica como no binario, un término utilizado para... Like, it's all over the place, but luckily Elliot gave everyone an out by allowing the use of he/him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercury33 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 2 hours ago, SaysWho? said: tbh, I didn't know English was a Germanic language. O_O But my g/f (@Keyser_Soze) speaks good German so now I know what our dinner convo will be. Yeah it’s core is Germanic but it’s a mix of Germanic and Romance which is probably why it’s so stupid with nonsensical rules lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 I mistakenly first read the title as “Ellen Page Comes Out as Ellen Page” and was like, ok. Figuring I missed something I read it again. Good for him I guess. So no longer gay? Or is still gay and going back to relationships with guys? Not important. I hope this keep them happy and sane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dre801 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 Welcome to "The Patriarchy." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 10 hours ago, legend said: Hopefully this helps others feel more comfortable. Wikipedia hate is mostly old guard. Unless you're also opposed to citing encyclopedias, Wikipedia is just as good. But the trick I use to tell people about Wikipedia when there was a rule against it is a good Wikipedia article cites its own sources and you can just follow those, verify it, and cite it yourself. So you can basically let Wikipedia do your research for you. In this case, I'm guessing it was just the original source though I used to do that but with books. I'd go find a history book, check out the works cited, and use that to find primary sources. I became friends with the reference librarian. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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