Joe Biden beats Donald Trump, officially making Trump a one-term twice impeached, twice popular-vote losing president

[Jason]

Just now, RedSoxFan9 said:

The people who freaked out about Jill Stein voters are going to vote for the Starbucks guy

 

Who wouldn't vote for a handjob? 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

2 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

He should have done the right thing and not run. He’s too old and plenty of others have adopted many of his ideas. 

Shoulda woulda coulda. I agree but that's not the world we live in now

[Massdriver]

8 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I think the mainstream media has a bias because they constantly have opinion articles posted on their websites attacking Bernie Sanders in considerably higher volumes than any other candidate (just as a for instance). I'm not even a de facto Bernie Sanders supporter (though I do like a lot of his policies) but it's pretty clear that news organizations like MSNBC, CNN, The New York Times, The Washington Post, Politico, etc. (that is, in part, what I consider the "mainstream media") don't really give an objective view of his policies repeatedly. His CNN town hall he was grilled far harder than any of the other candidates I've seen so far that have had CNN town halls (again, just as a for instance). This happens regularly. They discuss in only the most disingenuous terms the cost of Medicare for Hall and the Green New Deal (there are legitimate criticisms of both, which they never bother to bring up).

 

It's pretty well known (I thought) that the mainstream media has a neutrality bias that mistakes forced neutrality ("both sides are always equal" in arguments) for actual objectivity (what the facts are) and that the mainstream media has always been centrist corporate Democratic leaning. That's in part why they love Barack Obama so much (and now Joe Biden). 

I think they’ve been easy on him, especially during his 2016 campaign. I agree that the media seems to favor sane Democrats over protectionist democratic socialists, but I just don’t think that’s a bad thing. 

[Greatoneshere]

3 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

I think they’ve been easy on him, especially during his 2016 campaign. I agree that the media seems to favor sane Democrats over protectionist democratic socialists, but I just don’t think that’s a bad thing. 

 

Well we can disagree on those characterizations then, but I think I've explained what I originally meant I hope.  

[SaysWho?]

Just now, Massdriver said:

I think they’ve been easy on him, especially during his 2016 campaign. I agree that the media seems to favor sane Democrats over protectionist democratic socialists, but I just don’t think that’s a bad thing. 

 

Nah, I'd say they *were* easy on him since they viewed him as not having a chance of winning; I don't see him getting the same treatment at all in this 2020 race.

[RedSoxFan9]

There’s no other candidate close to Bernie, which is the reason why he is running

[Greatoneshere]

5 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

Nah, I'd say they *were* easy on him since they viewed him as not having a chance of winning; I don't see him getting the same treatment at all in this 2020 race.

 

That's how it came off to me as well. And he's already not getting the same treatment in this race (IMO). 

 

5 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said:

There’s no other candidate close to Bernie, which is the reason why he is running

 

I'd argue Elizabeth Warren isn't far off. And I need to hear more from Mayor Pete to know where he stands. And Rosario Dawson being Cory Booker's serious girlfriend (she's a big, outspoken progressive) means maybe he's not a joke candidate anymore? We'll see. 

[Massdriver]

9 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Nah, I'd say they *were* easy on him since they viewed him as not having a chance of winning; I don't see him getting the same treatment at all in this 2020 race.

They were easy on him. Now he's the frontrunner so the media has an obligation to be critical of him. They should have been far more critical of Trump during the primaries and not given him the spotlight so much for free.

[Joe]

5 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

That's how it came off to me as well. And he's already not getting the same treatment in this race (IMO). 

 

 

I'd argue Elizabeth Warren isn't far off. And I need to hear more from Mayor Pete to know where he stands. And Rosario Dawson being Cory Booker's serious girlfriend (she's a big, outspoken progressive) means maybe he's not a joke candidate anymore? We'll see. 

 

watwatwatwatwat

[SaysWho?]

3 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

They were easy on him. Now he's the frontrunner so the media has an obligation to be critical of him. They should have been far more critical of Trump during the primaries and not given him the spotlight so much for free.

 

Agreed with Trump, but I also agreed that they were easy on Sanders in 2016 for the reason I stated. Now I'm seeing him get the same treatment as the other candidates.

[Greatoneshere]

2 minutes ago, Jose said:

 

watwatwatwatwat

 

I'm mostly kidding but yes, they are together from what I understand and are quite serious. 

[Greatoneshere]

2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Agreed with Trump, but I also agreed that they were easy on Sanders in 2016 for the reason I stated. Now I'm seeing him get the same treatment as the other candidates.

 

I haven't seen four hit pieces come out within 24 hours on Politico for Cory Booker or Kristen Gillibrand or Kamala Harris. Stuff like that is ridiculous to me. The media is clearly harder on some candidates than others. Agreed about Trump though, absolutely.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

"easy on him" https://harpers.org/archive/2016/11/swat-team-2/

[Joe]

6 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I'm mostly kidding but yes, they are together from what I understand and are quite serious. 

 

I am aware, but the suggestion was absurd lol.

[Massdriver]

10 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I haven't seen four hit pieces come out within 24 hours on Politico for Cory Booker or Kristen Gillibrand or Kamala Harris. Stuff like that is ridiculous to me. The media is clearly harder on some candidates than others. Agreed about Trump though, absolutely.

Cory Booker and Kristen Gillibrand are not serious candidates right now from a dollars or polling standpoint. The only case you have is on Harris, but she still isn't doing nearly as well as Bernie on all the metrics. Bernie is the frontrunner and his ideas are much bolder than many others. 

 

Also, why does everyone give Bernie a pass on his tax returns? https://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-tax-returns-2019-4

 

He released his 2014 return and left the rest out. Why does he always say he'll release them and then he doesn't?

[RedSoxFan9]

 

the media is probably going to try to ignore Bernie as much as they can

[RedSoxFan9]

21 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

I'd argue Elizabeth Warren isn't far off. And I need to hear more from Mayor Pete to know where he stands. And Rosario Dawson being Cory Booker's serious girlfriend (she's a big, outspoken progressive) means maybe he's not a joke candidate anymore? We'll see. 

 

Shes the closest but still pretty far away.  Bernie is hostile to capitalism whereas she promises to be a competent manager of capitalism. 

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, Massdriver said:

Cory Booker and Kristen Gillibrand are not serious candidates right now from a dollars or polling standpoint. The only case you have is on Harris, but she still isn't doing nearly as well as Bernie on all the metrics. Bernie is the frontrunner and his ideas are much bolder than many others. 

 

Also, why does everyone give Bernie a pass on his tax returns? https://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-tax-returns-2019-4

 

He released his 2014 return and left the rest out. Why does he always say he'll release them and then he doesn't?

 

I agree that polling, etc. clearly shows Bernie as a frontrunner and his ideas are bolder than many others. Keep watching - Beto, etc. will be pushed on people as the candidate to vote for and they'll just keep attacking Bernie harder than them. 

 

As for Bernie getting a pass - he shouldn't. It annoys me to no end that he won't release them. There are 

 

1 hour ago, RedSoxFan9 said:

Shes the closest but still pretty far away.  Bernie is hostile to capitalism whereas she promises to be a competent manager of capitalism. 

 

Her competent management would require many Bernie-like policies, but I understand the distinction you are making.

[Massdriver]

57 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Her competent management would require many Bernie-like policies, but I understand the distinction you are making.

Are you a democratic socialist?

[Greatoneshere]

Just now, Massdriver said:

Are you a democratic socialist?

 

I don't label myself as anything since I don't agree with any group on everything they label themselves by. But in part, I guess I'd say I am. I'm definitely not pro-hyper/pro-crony capitalism is probably more accurate to say. 

[Massdriver]

5 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I don't label myself as anything since I don't agree with any group on everything they label themselves by. But in part, I guess I'd say I am. I'm definitely not pro-hyper/pro-crony capitalism is probably more accurate to say. 

I only ask because that's what Bernie likes to call himself, and that's one of the main distinctions between him and the others running. He likes the label and they don't. He liked to compliment left wing authoritarians like Castro in the 80s sort of like Trump does with strong men on the right today. He is on record for nationalizing major industries in the 70s, the others aren't. I wonder what it all really means. Perhaps it means that even after everyone has a decent standard of living, climate change is addressed, and everyone has healthcare, a socialist such as Bernie will keep going even if there is no evidence to suggest that going further would make society better.

[Greatoneshere]

9 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

I only ask because that's what Bernie likes to call himself, and that's one of the main distinctions between him and the others running. He likes the label and they don't. He liked to compliment left wing authoritarians like Castro in the 80s sort of like Trump does with strong men on the right today. He is on record for nationalizing major industries in the 70s, the others aren't. I wonder what it all really means. Perhaps it means that even after everyone has a decent standard of living, climate change is addressed, and everyone has healthcare, a socialist such as Bernie will keep going even if there is no evidence to suggest that going further would make society better.

 

I agree that he accepts the label and others don't (I also agree he is a democratic socialist) but I don't agree that he's as extreme as you suggest. Or even if he is, he knows that he has to measure his personal radicalism with practicality and what has and hasn't worked in history, and he says and explains as much plenty of the time in his actual policy proposals in his speeches and Q&A's (and on his website). 

 

He's not a perfect candidate, but he's been fighting for empathetic, progressive policies for decades long before it was "cool" and he's always been authentic in his voting record and policy proposals (he means what he backs). Unlike Trump, he's smart, so the comparison to him already fails that some make. I'm open to other great candidates to (Mayor Pete, Inslee, even Yang), but authenticity and genuinely high intelligence are high on my personal wants in a candidate (among many other things of course).

[Anathema-]

Lmao the media isn't going easy on Bernie are you kidding me? Bernie had credible charges of sexual harassment in his campaign and he was allowed to skate by. He wrote essays about women fantasizing about being gang raped and it's Joe Biden that has to wrestle with breathless coverage because one of Bernie's surrogates whined about it and nobody ever mentioned their connections.

 

Believe in the possibility of conspiracy or not the idea that the press is doing anything other than treating Sanders with kid gloves is myopic. He still has consistent issues with promising to release his tax returns and then just.. Not. Nobody calls him on it and it's a pretty serious issue. To say he's getting grilled by the media is simply incorrect. He's their darling.

[SilentWorld]

19 minutes ago, Anathema- said:

Lmao the media isn't going easy on Bernie are you kidding me? Bernie had credible charges of sexual harassment in his campaign and he was allowed to skate by. He wrote essays about women fantasizing about being gang raped and it's Joe Biden that has to wrestle with breathless coverage because one of Bernie's surrogates whined about it and nobody ever mentioned their connections.

 

Believe in the possibility of conspiracy or not the idea that the press is doing anything other than treating Sanders with kid gloves is myopic. He still has consistent issues with promising to release his tax returns and then just.. Not. Nobody calls him on it and it's a pretty serious issue. To say he's getting grilled by the media is simply incorrect. He's their darling.

 

Good points. Plus he’s like, really, really old. 

[RedSoxFan9]

 

pete is a third way clown

[Anathema-]

Mayor Pete is that wizard who stacks INT and dumps WIS.

[Guest]

I hope Bernie wins so @RedSoxFan9 has to see him live long enough to become the villain.

[Amazatron]

36 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said:

 

pete is a third way clown

 

LOL, nice quote taken within the context of a broader answer, one that is actually tempered in pragmaticism of drastically lowering education costs and loan reduction.  If you would actually like to view the whole exchange, the question starts at 53 minutes.

 

 

 

 

[RedSoxFan9]

I listened to that.  The quote wasn’t taken out of context. His ideas are dogshit compared to free college.  The reason he gave for not supporting free college is a pathetic cop out. 

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, RedSoxFan9 said:

 

 

 

That is a dumb fucking answer Pete. College for All or bust - there's absolutely nothing wrong with empowering those to achieve a higher education. His answer makes no sense also. I'll need to hear it in context later.

[Massdriver]

https://www.thirdway.org/memo/why-free-college-could-increase-inequality

[Ghost_MH]

1 hour ago, Massdriver said:

https://www.thirdway.org/memo/why-free-college-could-increase-inequality

 

The author completely ignores the idea of just making two year community colleges free and no different from high schools accepts the country. Much of the talk there is trying to figure it a way to get kids out of college without any debt in the current system of higher education. A free associates degree is a pretty good middle ground skipped entirely.

[SaysWho?]

dp

[SaysWho?]

[SaysWho?]

Ohio Representative Tim Ryan announces his run for presidency