General Gaming Next gen will have the worst launch ever.

[legend]

2 hours ago, Captain Pickle said:

Please make a thread.  I’m in such a gaming rut and nothing this year has peaked my interest.  Maybe I’ve missed so much? 

 

Will do! It is possible we just have very different tastes in games though!

[Keyser_Soze]

Quote

PS5 Won't Be Backwards Compatible With PS3, PS2, Or PS1, Says Ubisoft

Although rumors suggested a plan similar to Xbox, it seems the PS5 will only be backwards compatible with some PS4 titles.

 

Near the end though, the page adds this note: "Backwards compatibility will be available for supported PlayStation 4 titles, but will not be possible for PlayStation 3, PlayStation 2, or PlayStation games."

 

This could mean that backwards compatibility beyond the PS4 isn't part of Sony's plan for its new console, or that Ubisoft isn't able to say otherwise just yet. With the limited time until launch and the vague messaging around which PS4 titles will be playable on PS5 at launch still, it's likely to be the former. GameSpot has reached out to Sony for clarification.

 

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ps5-wont-be-backwards-compatible-with-ps3-ps2-or-p/1100-6481618/

 

[JPDunks4]

6 hours ago, LazyPiranha said:

I’ve no skin in the game as I have no plans to buy either anywhere close to launch, but “It has one original game, one essential expansion of a last gen game, an odd remake, and the ability to play the old shit” isn’t really a compelling argument for dropping half a grand.

 

How much did people drop for SSD's when the tech first arrived for their PCs?

 

I know the first SSD I got was pricey and was only like 256gb or something.

 

The Quality of Life improvements these consoles can have may very well be worth $500 if they can drop loading times from 60+ seconds to 9 seconds on games that aren't even optimized for the SSDs.    

 

It's not just about the software releasing.  It's about updating the entire package of the experience.

 

For every other electronic device I buy, its typically not for some specific piece of software, its for the features and improvements it offers over the last piece of hardware I had.  I don't see a console as any different, especially now that all the software carries over (at least on Xbox so far as we know).  I know it'll make my console gaming experience better in just about every way, and that's well worth the $500 to me.

 

PS5 I may impulse buy, but not really know much on how it'll improve my existing catalog, on top of the fact I only use m PS4 for exclusvies, it definitely makes me think there's no rush to buy it at launch.

 

 

 

 

[JPDunks4]

52 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Yeah, that line right there...

 

 "Backwards compatibility will be available for supported PlayStation 4 titles,

 

I don't think there is any guarantee "thousands" of games will be working at launch.  They said their hope is to have thousands of PS4 titles available to play on PS5, but never gave any timeframe for it.  They've been asked to clarify and have never taken the time to explicitly state "AT LAUNCH'.  I'd love to know but I did a lot of digging and could not find a clear answer on this.  

[heydude93]

Not an issue w/ me one iota...IF the majority of fan and critic favorites make the early cut and we keep getting downloadable remasters, ports and remakes of more retro stuff currently stuck on old hardware. Considering the fuckery Sony COULDV'E pulled, like forcing all BC titles to be streaming only or only accessible with Plus, I'm feeling a bit more optimistic about this now.  Even if it takes years to slowly roll out more BC titles and classics, anticipating upcoming releases is like half of the fun of being into video games.

 

EDIT: hmmm 

 

 

[Keyser_Soze]

37 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

How much did people drop for SSD's when the tech first arrived for their PCs?

 

Probably around 80 bucks or cheaper for some crucial 128 gig HD or something.

[skillzdadirecta]

1 hour ago, JPDunks4 said:

Yeah, that line right there...

 

 "Backwards compatibility will be available for supported PlayStation 4 titles,

 

I don't think there is any guarantee "thousands" of games will be working at launch.  They said their hope is to have thousands of PS4 titles available to play on PS5, but never gave any timeframe for it.  They've been asked to clarify and have never taken the time to explicitly state "AT LAUNCH'.  I'd love to know but I did a lot of digging and could not find a clear answer on this.  

Yeah that's the line that basically has me lowering my expectations for BC for the PS5... I was definitely not "concern trolling" because I'm actually NOT concerned about BC as far as Sony is concerned and unlike most here, I DO plan on getting the PS5 at launch. Not for BC because I never understood it to be a main selling point of the PS5 unlike MS who have been touting it for the last several years and have committed to Xbox gamers being able to bring their collections forward. Whether or not they pull it off remains to be seen. Given how they've handled BC so far I have no reason to doubt them.

 

[crispy4000]

7 hours ago, JPDunks4 said:

It's not just about the software releasing.  It's about updating the entire package of the experience.

 

For every other electronic device I buy, its typically not for some specific piece of software, its for the features and improvements it offers over the last piece of hardware I had.  I don't see a console as any different, especially now that all the software carries over (at least on Xbox so far as we know).  I know it'll make my console gaming experience better in just about every way, and that's well worth the $500 to me.

What improvements to the existing library over the X1X/Pro can we reasonably expect?  Would continued 30fps framerate caps and few in-house patches for current gen games disappoint you?  We're not likely to have a clear picture on this until the new consoles actually release.

 

Buying the consoles to play newer games is a more assuring than BC improvements, IMO, since at least we know those games will be patched to keep up with the times.  To me, it's important that the upgrades there don't feel marginal either.  For example, a game like Assassin's Creed Valhalla being 30fps/4k would be supremely disappointing, given how much it leans into being cross-gen.  We need to see what Cyberpunk looks like on them too.

[JPDunks4]

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

What improvements to the existing library over the X1X/Pro can we reasonably expect?  Would continued 30fps framerate caps and few in-house patches for current gen games disappoint you?  We're not likely to have a clear picture on this until the new consoles actually release.

 

Buying the consoles to play newer games is a lot more assuring, IMO, since at least we know those games will be patched to keep up with the times.  To me, it's important that the improvements there don't feel marginal either.  For example, a game like Assassin's Creed Valhalla being 30fps/4k would be supremely disappointing, given how much it leans into being cross-gen.

 

I feel like we constantly have this discussion.

 

- Added HDR to old titles.  HDR was one of the single most impressive graphical improvements I noticed this gen  If it can deliver on adding HDR to essentially all older games, that's a notable achievement and upgrade for me.

 

- Improved load times.  They already showed the demo of State of Decay 2, not being optimized for Velocity Architecture, but simply playing off the SSD.  It reduced the load times from like 50 seconds down to 8.  End of November last year I spent $150 just on 1 TB SSD when it was on Sale to add to my PC.  So assuming the consoles are $500, I don't think spending $350 more than that to get an entirely new console with other improvements on top of the SSD is crazy talk, even if there were absolutely no launch games.  The QoL improvement alone on better load times on all my older titles is a huge upgrade for me.

 

- We don't know how many games will perform better on XSX, but looking at how they handled backwards compatibility on XBO, I think its safe to say there will be a decent amount with upgrades.  They stated just like on Xbox One X, updating a lot of older games to 4k, there will be even more titles updated on XSX.  They also stated there are quite a few they will be able to update to double frame-rates as well using the same kind of methods. 

 

In my Library alone, I have 46 Xbox 360/Xbox games that now run at 4k or "Xbox One X Enhanced" on my Xbox One X, out of 194 Back Compat Games I own.  And that's not including the older Xbox One Games that were also updated after the One X released.  As @skillzdadirectasaid earlier, Microsoft has shown me through their actions thus far, that they are doing what they can to deliver on Back Compat, and I give them the benefit of the doubt they will deliver.

 

- As for new software being a key driver.  I don't discount the need for new software, but I am also buying this knowing, I will eventually own a XSX.  So if I buy it now at launch, or maybe 6 months from now, or a year from now, I will own one.  Why wait the year and endure 6x longer load times that entire time along with all the other improvements it'll offer, for the maybe potential of saving $100 if there is some kind of sale, which is hardly a guarantee this time around.  The Xbox One X and PS4 Pro are both still listed at $400 right now I believe.  Seeing as how much of a tech upgrade these consoles are this time around, I doubt we see price drops nearly as quickly this gen as we did last gen with Xbox dropping Kinect.  Then there are the GaaS, like Avengers that just dropped, that I pretty much hope I'll still be playing at that time.  Why would I want to continue playing on older hardware when the option to upgrade is there knowing I plan to upgrade in the near future regardless.  Like if I was going to buy the XSX for Halo Infinite, do I really think next year when Halo Infinite drops the XSX is going to be $100 cheaper?  If not, why wait the year for Halo to drop and miss out on the benefits til then?

 

So again, I could not buy 1 single "NEXT GEN" game, and be completely content in upgrading just for the sake of upgrading this time around thanks to the backwards compatibility work Microsoft has put in.

[Chris-]

Nothing will ever be worse than the PS2 launch. Besides, having a nicer version of Cyberpunk already makes these launches top-tier in terms of quality. 

[Keyser_Soze]

2 minutes ago, Chris- said:

Nothing will ever be worse than the PS2 launch. Besides, having a nicer version of Cyberpunk already makes these launches top-tier in terms of quality. 

 

Lies! Summoner was a wonderful game and without it we wouldn't have gotten this gem of a video

 

 

[crispy4000]

@JPDunks4

 

Of all that you said, automatic HDR is the thing I expect the most significant impact with.  It should be a clear visible difference.  But I am curious to know what the impact is for older games that look dated for other reasons and have poor lighting models.

I'm not of the mindset that loading times for current gen games (or further backwards compatibile ones) are too long to stand.  It's welcome, but in my view, not a high priority issue I'd buy a new console for.  SSDs are much more exciting for what they'll offer new games than old ones.

I don't expect much improvement on og Xbox and Xbox 360 games relative to the X1X.  That's where I feel Series X's bc argument is weakest.  There's a definite issue of diminishing returns.  We can't expect an X1X leap in backwards compatibility again without a new approach, of the like you see more in the emulation community.  (ie: framerate hacks, widscreeen hacks, AI upscalled textures, reshade effects, etc)

Lastly, I don't have the confidence you do that developers will patch up their current gen games in the same way they did mid-gen.  I think we're going to see less emphasis on it this time as a whole because of a generational transition.  I especially don't have high hopes for games from the first half of this gen getting that treatment, unless its still thriving as a live service game.  And we're already seeing some bullshit where those patches don't come free.

[JPDunks4]

27 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

@JPDunks4

 

Of all that you said, automatic HDR is the thing I expect the most significant impact with.  It should be a clear, visible difference.  But I am curious to know what the impact is for older games that already look dated and have poor lighting models.

I'm not of the mindset that loading times for current gen games (or further backwards compatibile ones) are too long to stand.  It's welcome, but in my view, insignificant.  SSDs are much more exciting for what they'll offer new games than old ones.

I don't expect much improvement on og Xbox and Xbox 360 games relative to the X1X.  That's where I feel Series X's bc argument is weakest.  There's the issue of diminishing returns.  We can't expect an X1X leap in backwards compatibility again without a new approach, of the like you see more in the emulation community.  (ie: framerate hacks, widscreeen hacks, AI upscalled textures, reshade effects, etc) 

Lastly, I don't have the confidence you do that developers will patch up their current gen games in the same way they did mid-gen.  I think we're going to see less emphasis on that this time as a whole because of a generational transition.  I especially don't have high hopes for anything from the first half of this gen getting that isn't still thriving as a live service game.
 

 

Do you console game much?  A game like Ghost of Tsushima I think highlighted to many thanks to how fast it is, just how accustomed so many have gotten to grabbing their cell phone when a load time pops up, cause they know they have a minute or so to scroll Twitter or whatever while loading.  I bought external SSD's for $150+ for my Xbox One X just to improve load times by maybe 10 seconds over the older times and have many friends that have done the same.

 

I get we may not be the majority, but many have said, once you start gaming with reduced load times, its damn near impossible to go back to playing on the older hardware where you're waiting and waiting.  

 

And 1/4 of my old Xbox 360/Xbox games got upgraded by their emulation tools they are using.  Why shouldn't I expect that the XSX maybe able to improve older Xbox One games at the same rate?  They have also stated they are using new techniques on top of the Heutchy Method they used to upscale the older games, but now for frame-rates.  They didn't have this back for Xbox One, but will not be implementing it for Xbox Series X.  We won't know until we learn more, but I feel they've earned the benefit of the doubt from me so far.

 

The 21 minute mark talks about the enhancements at the platform level.  They don't need patches from the developers.

 

For me personally, I just don't see the point in waiting for either console if you believe you'll own one in the near future.  If you're of the mindset that you'll wait for the first price drops or revisions, then that makes much more sense to me, but I think we all know that maybe a few years before that happens.  If someone's stance is, I don't see why I need one this fall but may buy one in the spring when Ratchet releases, financial reasons aside, I don't see why not just get it this fall knowing you'll probably be paying the same price next spring, and have the better hardware/experience sooner.

 

 

 

[Remarkableriots]

I stopped playing The Outer Worlds because of how bad the loading time was in that game. I'll be trying to get the PS 5 ASAP to decrease those loading times.

[Keyser_Soze]

1 minute ago, Remarkableriots said:

I stopped playing The Outer Worlds because of how bad the loading time was in that game. I'll be trying to get the PS 5 ASAP to decrease those loading times.

 

Come over to my place and play on my computer. The load times are a couple of seconds.

[JPDunks4]

4 minutes ago, Remarkableriots said:

I stopped playing The Outer Worlds because of how bad the loading time was in that game. I'll be trying to get the PS 5 ASAP to decrease those loading times.

 

I remember Stars Wars Fallen Order, a game where you may die a lot like a Dark Souls, had like minute long load times.  So for those attempting a tough boss, and repeatedly dying, having to wait all that time each time, was an absolute killer for consoles, and literally can be reason enough for some to quit a game entirely.

[crispy4000]

53 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

Do you console game much?  A game like Ghost of Tsushima I think highlighted to many thanks to how fast it is, just how accustomed so many have gotten to grabbing their cell phone when a load time pops up, cause they know they have a minute or so to scroll Twitter or whatever while loading.  I bought external SSD's for $150+ for my Xbox One X just to improve load times by maybe 10 seconds over the older times and have many friends that have done the same.

I get we may not be the majority, but many have said, once you start gaming with reduced load times, its damn near impossible to go back to playing on the older hardware where you're waiting and waiting.

 

I do, just finished Spider-Man the other day, and have a SDD in my PC.  Most games this gen with egregious load times are open world, at first loading, which doesn't bother me.  Things have come a long way since PS1 game load times and Sonic 2006.
 

53 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

And 1/4 of my old Xbox 360/Xbox games got upgraded by their emulation tools they are using.  Why shouldn't I expect that the XSX maybe able to improve older Xbox One games at the same rate?  They have also stated they are using new techniques on top of the Hovis Method they used to upscale the older games, but now for frame-rates.  They didn't have this back for Xbox One, but will not be implementing it for Xbox Series X.  We won't know until we learn more, but I feel they've earned the benefit of the doubt from me so far.

 

Because the improvements they've already employed (4K resolution, better texture filtering, forcing highest quality texture assets, more consistent framerates, etc) have few equivalents.  X1X was a bundle of high impact improvements all at once.  We're not likely to see that type of jump again without them going further with their promises.

Microsoft has yet to show us an unpatched, 30fps capped game running at 60fps(+).  They've said themselves it will be a "select set."  Which I don't doubt.

That's because they're going to run into the same issues as emulation.  Many old games can't be cracked to run at 60fps because of how they were coded to the framerate, rather than in spite of it.  There are 'select games' that get 60fps cracks and mods, but they're few and far between for that reason, and are often rife with crashes and other issues.  If Microsoft can somehow set higher caps for a broad swath of games, good on them, but I'll believe it when I see it.  And the older the game, the more likely the hurdle.

[skillzdadirecta]

3 hours ago, Remarkableriots said:

I stopped playing The Outer Worlds because of how bad the loading time was in that game. I'll be trying to get the PS 5 ASAP to decrease those loading times.

I'm playing Call of Cthulu right now... the load times are PS2 bad. I remember Control's load times being horrible as well too.

[HGLatinBoy]

 

 

 

That's the N64 launch lineup. Y'all are fucking spoiled any systems that that launches with 15+ games is good. 

 

You can expect Madden, Call of Duty, Assassin's creed, and whatever shitty mascot game they have planned for either system plus a bunch of other ports of current gen games that are set to come out this fall. 

 

[Xbob42]

15 hours ago, Remarkableriots said:

I stopped playing The Outer Worlds because of how bad the loading time was in that game. I'll be trying to get the PS 5 ASAP to decrease those loading times.

If you had the game on a system that could utilize an SSD properly, the load times would've been so good you could've stopped playing hours earlier after you realized what a mediocre sham the game was!

[Dodger]

18 hours ago, HGLatinBoy said:

 

 

 

That's the N64 launch lineup. Y'all are fucking spoiled any systems that that launches with 15+ games is good. 

 

You can expect Madden, Call of Duty, Assassin's creed, and whatever shitty mascot game they have planned for either system plus a bunch of other ports of current gen games that are set to come out this fall. 

 

 

 

Those were some lean times, then we got Cruisin USA and that one Star Wars game a few months later. It was literally almost a year before there were even a dozen games total available on the N64. But at the time Mario 64 was also one of the best games ever made. 

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, Dodger said:

Those were some lean times, then we got Cruisin USA and that one Star Wars game a few months later. It was literally almost a year before there were even a dozen games total available on the N64. But at the time Mario 64 was also one of the best games ever made. 

 

It was half a year, actually.

1. Mario 64 - Sept '96
2. Pilotwings 64 - Sept '96

3. Cruis'n USA - Oct '96
4. Wayne Gretzky's 3D Hockey - Oct '96
5. Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire - Oct '96
6. Killer Instinct Gold - Oct '96
7. Wave Race 64 - Nov '96
8. NBA Hangtime - Jan '97
9. Blast Corps - Feb '97
10. FIFA Soccer 64 - Feb '97
11. Mario Kart 64 - Feb '97
12. Turok: Dinosaur Hunter - Feb '97

If it wasn't for it being a little lean, it wasn't such a bad opening 6 months.

[number305]

41 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

It was half a year, actually.

1. Mario 64 - Sept '96
2. Pilotwings 64 - Sept '96

3. Cruis'n USA - Oct '96
4. Wayne Gretzky's 3D Hockey - Oct '96
5. Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire - Oct '96
6. Killer Instinct Gold - Oct '96
7. Wave Race 64 - Nov '96
8. NBA Hangtime - Jan '97
9. Blast Corps - Feb '97
10. FIFA Soccer 64 - Feb '97
11. Mario Kart 64 - Feb '97
12. Turok: Dinosaur Hunter - Feb '97

If it wasn't for it being a little lean, it wasn't such a bad opening 6 months.

I have very fond memories of just about every one of those games.  I won't revisit them because I'm sure they would be unplayable to me now (time has not been kind to N64).  But those were some great games at the time.

[ShreddieMercury]

I'd rather have one of the best Nintendo games of all time and nothing else than several warmed over ports and template adventure games that load faster.  It will definitely be a weak launch but probably not the worst ever.  I think what will really be frustrating for early adopters is the downstream impacts of the pandemic on development.  I expect the first year or so to be pretty barren aside from stuff that's already very far along.  For that reason I can't really justify a launch console, because there aren't any launch games that seem to make the price worth it.