~*Official Canada Thread of Good Governance and Unnecessary Apologizing*~

[AbsolutSurgen]

Just now, CitizenVectron said:

 

I suspect the NDP has finally come to the (correct) realization that their last chance (and only chance) of forming government was in 2015, and that they can do more for their cause with actions like this, acting as "Canada's social conscience."

Which will lead them to become more and more marginalized over time.

[CitizenVectron]

1 minute ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Which will lead them to become more and more marginalized over time.

 

Perhaps. But any pressure they place on the Liberals to the left causes the Liberals to react.

[AbsolutSurgen]

Just now, CitizenVectron said:

 

Perhaps. But any pressure they place on the Liberals to the left causes the Liberals to react.

Any pressure they put on the Liberals to move left benefits the Conservatives, and reduces NDP support.

[CitizenVectron]

9 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Any pressure they put on the Liberals to move left benefits the Conservatives, and reduces NDP support.

 

I think it's the opposite; reduction in NDP support tends to help the Liberals win a few more seats. Trudeau is arguably the most progressive PM since his father, both in social stance as well as economics, and it hasn't helped the Conservatives. It could be argued that the CPC has also chosen very bad leaders to run against Trudeau (which is true), but if they can't beat him with a centrist conservative after all the stuff Trudeau has been through, then I don't see how the party moving left has hurt them. If anything, the NDP has kept the LPC vote down, as well as the Bloc, obviously.

[CitizenVectron]

Text of the agreement published by NDP:

 

Delivering for Canadians Now

WWW.NDP.CA

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Today, NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh announced an agreement reached by Canada’s New Democratic Party and the Liberal Party of Canada in Parliament, Delivering for Canadians Now, A Supply and Confidence Agreement.

 

Key points:

 

HEALTH

• Agreement lasts until Parliament rises in June 2025
• Four budgets to be presented and supported
• Parties will coordinate/communicate on the budget
• Leaders meet once per quarter, along with house leader and whip meetings. Monthly meetings by an oversight group
• Dentalcare for low-income Canadians:
  • Start with <12 Canadians in 2022, and then be expanded to <18, >65, and those with disabilities in 2023, then total population in 2025
  • All families with a household income <$90,000, with no co-pays for anyone under <$70,000
• Pharmacare:
  • Passing Canada Pharmacare Act by end of 2023 and tasking the National Drug Agency to develop a national formulary of essential medicines for bulk purchasing plan (so sounds like "essential" medicines would be covered by government in full, list to be determined)

FINANCIAL SUPPORT

• Increase health spending, specifically for the training and hiring of more primary care doctors and nurses, mental health support, and aging support care
• Tabling a new Safe Long-Term Care Act to protect seniors in LTC facilities 
• Increasing support for rapid housing
• Homebuyer's Bill of Rights
• Early Learning and Child Care Act in 2022, making the existing provincial agreements for daycare long-term and fully funded

CLIMATE CRISIS

• Increased funding for retraining
• Plan to phase out public funding for fossil fuels, including crown corporations
• Increased funding for green home refit programs, including focusing on low-income and multi-unit buildings

LABOUR

• Enshrining 10 days paid sick leave for federally regulated workers into law
• Legislation banning strike replacement workers (scabs) in federally regulated industries when employees have been locked out or are on strike

RECONCILIATION

• Additional investments into Indigenous housing in 2022, with design and delivery guided by Indigenous, Metis, and Inuit groups
• Creating more support and a standing table on Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women
• Providing financial and technical support to Indigenous communities wishing to perform burial searches at former residential schools

TAXES

• Increased/new corporate taxes? (unclear)
• Creation of publicly accessible beneficial ownership registry by end of 2023 (allowing public to see who owns corporations)

DEMOCRACY

• Expanding ease of voting with:
  • Expanded "election day" of three days of voting
  • Allowing people to vote at any polling station within their riding
  • Improving/expanding mail-in ballots
  • Quebec to retain same % of seats in House

[AbsolutSurgen]

38 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

I think it's the opposite; reduction in NDP support tends to help the Liberals win a few more seats. Trudeau is arguably the most progressive PM since his father, both in social stance as well as economics, and it hasn't helped the Conservatives. It could be argued that the CPC has also chosen very bad leaders to run against Trudeau (which is true), but if they can't beat him with a centrist conservative after all the stuff Trudeau has been through, then I don't see how the party moving left has hurt them. If anything, the NDP has kept the LPC vote down, as well as the Bloc, obviously.

There are PC governments in Ontario (who is also leading in the polls), New Brunswick, PEI and Nova Scotia.  The only Liberal provincial governments are in Newfoundland and the Yukon.  The riding I live in overwhelmingly voted for both Trudeau and Doug Ford.

 

It demonstrates that there are a rather substantial group of people who are willing to vote for both parties.  Pushing the Liberals further towards the left is likely to make them less attractive to that group, and push some % of them to vote Conservative (particularly if a non-Western centrist wins the party leadership).

[CitizenVectron]

Yep:

 

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

3 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Yep:

 

 

Heads I win; tails you lose

[Jason]

I still want Surgen to show us on the doll where Trued'oh touched him.

[AbsolutSurgen]

13 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

Yep:

 

 

Trudeau is making a play to be supported by the right.  Conservatives are trying to convince swing Conservative/Liberal swing voters that he is moving to the left, and further away from the centre. The optics of the deal make a pretty compelling argument for this.  If you're making a deal with the NDP, it makes intuitive sense that you're moving to the left.

 

For example, the people who voted for Ford and Trudeau in Ontario -- they are unlikely to have a positive view of the federal NDP.

[AbsolutSurgen]

8 hours ago, Jason said:

I still want Surgen to show us on the doll where Trued'oh touched him.

I'm not alone:

 

 

[CitizenVectron]

At the same time...shouldn't politics be about affecting change you believe in? If this deal allows him to form a stable government and affect meaningful, long-lasting positive change for millions of people through dental and pharmacare (along with making the childcare deals permanent), isn't that good? Taking the team-based sport out of it, this is exactly why government should want to win elections. He's smart enough to know that after winning three elections, he might not have another chance, so he's got to make the best of this term.

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

At the same time...shouldn't politics be about affecting change you believe in? If this deal allows him to form a stable government and affect meaningful, long-lasting positive change for millions of people through dental and pharmacare (along with making the childcare deals permanent), isn't that good? Taking the team-based sport out of it, this is exactly why government should want to win elections. He's smart enough to know that after winning three elections, he might not have another chance, so he's got to make the best of this term.

Does this kind of agreement progress his long-term goals?  This is what I doubt.

 

Fundamentally Jagmeet will have to play this as him getting his way.  Trudeau will have to play it as him doing what he was going to anyways, and receiving the NDP's support anyway.  Those kind of partnerships never end well.

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

[CitizenVectron]

48 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

 

 

For sure, the best CPC path to government is basically for them to elect a PC leader. That, or hope that some scandal collapses LPC support in urban Canada (while also increasing NDP support). The CPC really only has two paths to victory:

• Pull voters directly from LPC
• Keep current voters, exploit higher NDP vote (from them pulling from LPC)

Harper did the latter quite well. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

5 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

For sure, the best CPC path to government is basically for them to elect a PC leader. That, or hope that some scandal collapses LPC support in urban Canada (while also increasing NDP support). The CPC really only has two paths to victory:

• Pull voters directly from LPC
• Keep current voters, exploit higher NDP vote (from them pulling from LPC)

Harper did the latter quite well. 

I suggest he did the first well (I don't think I would frame them as LPC voters)-- I don't see NDP support being notably lower now than when Harper was PM.

I think there are a group of swing voters that sometimes vote conservative, and sometimes vote Liberal.  Most of them voted Conservative in 2006/2008/2011, and many of them voted Liberal in 2015/2019/2021.  

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

 

[CitizenVectron]

I mean, she is a conservative. She's a Liberal in the same that Jean Charest is—they both led parties that go by the name but have nothing in common with actual Liberals.

[Jason]

Supersized goldfish are shocking locals in this region of Canada

WWW.EURONEWS.COM

---

Goldfish are thriving in Canada’s stormwater ponds and affecting local ecosystems.

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

Subway station entrance closed in Toronto due to a beaver.  Most Canadian thing ever.

[ThreePi]

I assume beavers in Canada are protected like Bald Eagles in the US.

[AbsolutSurgen]

Just now, ThreePi said:

I assume beavers in Canada are protected like Bald Eagles in the US.

Nope.  They are not endangered.

[ThreePi]

Just now, AbsolutSurgen said:

Nope.  They are not endangered.

 

It's not about being endangered it's about be an uncorruptible symbol of freedom and patriotism for your country.

[chakoo]

I’m more surprised it’s not a trash panda. They’re everywhere in Downtown TO.

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

We elect MPs into the House of Commons.  They form groups (parties), who form other groups (coalitions).

 

There is nothing undemocratic about how those MPs form groups.

[CitizenVectron]

 

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

 

[CitizenVectron]

Absolutely. Not that conservatives will do anything to address the issue, either. It's something no major political party or group is willing to do anything about, as that would involve effectively devaluing millions of homes owned by boomers.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

If Canada is anything like the U.S. then the same issues that are causing housing cost inflation in liberal/progressive areas are also present in right/conservatives areas. 

[CitizenVectron]

2 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

If Canada is anything like the U.S. then the same issues that are causing housing cost inflation in liberal/progressive areas are also present in right/conservatives areas. 

 

They are, only to a lesser extent since conservative areas are generally less desirable, and the largest urban areas are more progressive.

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

Absolutely. Not that conservatives will do anything to address the issue, either. It's something no major political party or group is willing to do anything about, as that would involve effectively devaluing millions of homes owned by boomers.

It's about to become part of the Ontario Provincial election:

 

 

2 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

If Canada is anything like the U.S. then the same issues that are causing housing cost inflation in liberal/progressive areas are also present in right/conservatives areas. 

It's primarily in Toronto and Vancouver...

To give an idea of just how insane houses have become:

 

Bradford is about 1 hour North of Toronto:

Google Maps

WWW.GOOGLE.CA

---

Bradford West Gwillimbury, ON, Canada

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

That’s still rigidly small c conservative land use. 

[CitizenVectron]

It's definitely out of control. My 1964 1,100 sqft bungalow was $372,000, and it would easily go for well over a million in Toronto or Vancouver.

[silentbob]

I’m roughly 45minutes south west of Toronto, and the houses on my street are valued at roughly $435k by the city. Yet for the past couple years I have seen the houses creep up to $800k and then the past couple years (when Covid started) it’s been $1.1 to $1.3m. One of them just being 2 houses to my right and we aren’t that big. Like 3-4 bedroom/1.5-2.5 baths, but we have backyards, great location to highway, go transit, schools and shopping. Be interesting to see how things 1)cool down with Covid restrictions lifting 2)will people move back/closer to the downtown core with no work from home option 3)the housing market crash? (More when and how soon)