Guest Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 To literally illustrate the very small lag between cases and hospitalizations in the pre-vaccine waves, and the muted hospitalization relative to current increases in cases in the UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 18 minutes ago, sblfilms said: Hospitalizations happen very quickly in relation to increases in cases. Doubling is irrelevant! Nominal numbers are what matters. When the baseline has dropped so low even small nominal changes result in large percentage increases. But tell me what is worse, going from 5,000 to 10,000 cases a day, or going from 150,000 to 200,000 cases a day? Doubling hospitalizations is a bigger deal than doubling cases, though. If NJ went from 200 cases to 400 cases, nobody would really care. But if our hospitalizations went from 300 to 600, it would be a far bigger deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 29 minutes ago, sblfilms said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 8 minutes ago, Jason said: Bud, I disagree with him here too, but there’s no need to be obnoxious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 23 minutes ago, Joe said: Doubling hospitalizations is a bigger deal than doubling cases, though. If NJ went from 200 cases to 400 cases, nobody would really care. But if our hospitalizations went from 300 to 600, it would be a far bigger deal. Hospitalizations are obviously more important…which is the point of the charts in the above tweet. There used to be a pretty tight relative relationship between case growth and hospitalization growth, but in the era of vaccines they decoupling from one another, while hospitalization and death remain pretty tightly linked. There seems to be a weird desire to downplay how incredible these vaccines are. They are working amazingly well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzzzle Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 On 7/1/2021 at 3:39 PM, heydude93 said: I remember a comedian (I think it was Tom Segura) saying last year how he was worried a similar thing would happen to comedians. For a while, the big venues only go to the S-tier performers, so the A-tier performers get relegated to smaller venues, which then pushes out the B-tier performers, who go to even smaller venues, and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 The UK seems to be going with a strategy of personal responsibility -- "if you don't get vaccinated, it's your problem". Despite skyrocketing cases, they're planning on removing ALL restrictions over the next few weeks. I don't have a fundamental issue with that concept for Canada -- except -- how do I get my 5 and 11-year olds vaccinated? Oh wait, I can't. [I am more concerned about the risk of other symptoms and "long-haul" non-life threatening issues, rather than hospitalization.] We need vaccine passports to keep the anti-vaxxers away from the people who can't be vaccinated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 18 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: The UK seems to be going with a strategy of personal responsibility -- "if you don't get vaccinated, it's your problem". Despite skyrocketing cases, they're planning on removing ALL restrictions over the next few weeks. I don't have a fundamental issue with that concept for Canada -- except -- how do I get my 5 and 11-year olds vaccinated? Oh wait, I can't. [I am more concerned about the risk of other symptoms and "long-haul" non-life threatening issues, rather than hospitalization.] We need vaccine passports to keep the anti-vaxxers away from the people who can't be vaccinated. Absolutely. I think that, with cases now being so low in Canada, and with vaccinations so high, it would be a perfect time to try and achieve COVID zero, and enforce vaccine passports for entry. I do agree that the total disregard for kids is not great. True, their risk is very low, but it's not non-existent, and we know it's incredibly contagious. Personally my hope would be that schools would continue masking in the fall until the Pfizer <12 approval comes in, but I it's not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 Just now, CitizenVectron said: Absolutely. I think that, with cases now being so low in Canada, and with vaccinations so high, it would be a perfect time to try and achieve COVID zero, and enforce vaccine passports for entry. I do agree that the total disregard for kids is not great. True, their risk is very low, but it's not non-existent, and we know it's incredibly contagious. Personally my hope would be that schools would continue masking in the fall until the Pfizer <12 approval comes in, but I it's not going to happen. I don't believe that zero Covid is achievable. And, I believe that if we were to remove all restrictions in Ontario, we would begin to see the spike the UK is having in cases. In my area, masks were only one of the interventions that were used in schools -- and probably not the most effective. Hearing about what my kid's school day was like during last winter was very disheartening. The distancing. The lack of exercise. The lack of human interaction. It was devastating. My preference is for a universal vaccine passport, and businesses can make the decision on whether to require their customers to provide proof of vaccination (or proof they are ineligible). That way I can make an informed decision on which restaurants/stores/etc. to give my business to. We prevent children who haven't been vaccinated from polio/measles/mumps/etc. from attending school -- and I have no issue with doing the same with adults who choose not to get vaccinated from getting on public transit, going to arenas, sitting in restaurants, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 31 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: I don't believe that zero Covid is achievable. And, I believe that if we were to remove all restrictions in Ontario, we would begin to see the spike the UK is having in cases. In my area, masks were only one of the interventions that were used in schools -- and probably not the most effective. Hearing about what my kid's school day was like during last winter was very disheartening. The distancing. The lack of exercise. The lack of human interaction. It was devastating. My preference is for a universal vaccine passport, and businesses can make the decision on whether to require their customers to provide proof of vaccination (or proof they are ineligible). That way I can make an informed decision on which restaurants/stores/etc. to give my business to. We prevent children who haven't been vaccinated from polio/measles/mumps/etc. from attending school -- and I have no issue with doing the same with adults who choose not to get vaccinated from getting on public transit, going to arenas, sitting in restaurants, etc. There's this great local yoga place in my city that managed to survive the pandemic through the federal subsidies (as well as moving some classes to online streaming, etc). They just announced yesterday that they've checked provincial laws, and they have decided to demand proof of full vaccination for all customers moving forward. They will still offer online streamed classes to unvaccinated. Well...there has been a giant "backlash" online from the vocal anti-vax community, calling the yoga place fascist, accusing them of "segregation," etc. Overall the public seems to be in support of the measure, and in fact my wife and her friend just bought summer passes for unlimited classes to support them. I hope more businesses do this. Get vaxxed or get fucked (those who are eligible, of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 It is good for society to create incentives, including some amount of pain points, to encourage vaccination but I’m not sure the “get fucked” attitude is a winner though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, sblfilms said: It is good for society to create incentives, including some amount of pain points, to encourage vaccination but I’m not sure the “get fucked” attitude is a winner though In this case, "get fucked" is being denied service to a private business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 OK so for sure I can't seem to reschedule online because I didn't provide my e-mail when first registering for my first dose, so I phoned 311 to reschedule that way....I've been waiting for 51 minutes now...This jazz rock song they have playing is going to haunt my dreams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Delta Variant Not Driving Hospitalization Surge in England, Data Shows - The New York Times WWW.NYTIMES.COM Although the number of coronavirus infections has risen sharply in recent weeks, hospitalization rates remain low. These vaccines, man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 Yup, "dying to own the libs" states are already seeing big surges, and the deaths will unfortunately follow: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 11 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: Yup, "dying to own the libs" states are already seeing big surges, and the deaths will unfortunately follow: Nevada is a “dying to own the libs” state? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 8 minutes ago, Joe said: Nevada is a “dying to own the libs” state? An unfortunate state caught in the crossfire. I was referring to the states with lowest vaccination rates (which are seeing increasing case counts), but some medium-vaccinated states are also seeing increases (but hopefully won't see as severe deaths). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 It's really strange that people think the vaccine hesitancy is about "owning the libs" when it's actually about people being lied to. They deserve pity, not scorn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, sblfilms said: It's really strange that people think the vaccine hesitancy is about "owning the libs" when it's actually about people being lied to. They deserve pity, not scorn. I agree! It comes from hate, but that hate is stoked by other, evil people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 From my experience, I don't think it is hate for most people. The people I talk to on a regular basis (I initiate vaccine conversations on a nearly daily basis in person) that they are actually afraid of this stuff. They don't trust it because of things they have heard, and so they are willing to take chances with the virus since they fall into a low(er) risk category. I believe it is important to understand why people are doing the things they are doing if you actually want to see behaviors changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 Sorry I should have clarified—the "own the libs" position manifests as hate derived from manipulation. The vaccine hesitancy does not (well, it probably does for some, but certainly not all)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 ok... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 Taking our 14 year old this week to get dosed with some of that Pfizer juice. Based on the data I've been seeing, seems like healthy kids likely only need one dose for some very robust protection, so that is pretty neat. Our 11 year old turns 12 in September, so he'll be next on the list for a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 Israel sees drop in Pfizer vaccine protection against infections WWW.REUTERS.COM Israel reported on Monday a decrease in the effectiveness of the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine in preventing infections and symptomatic illness but said it remained highly effective in preventing serious illness. Quote Israel reported on Monday a decrease in the effectiveness of the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine in preventing infections and symptomatic illness but said it remained highly effective in preventing serious illness. The decline coincided with the spread of the Delta variant and the end of social distancing restrictions in Israel. Vaccine effectiveness in preventing both infection and symptomatic disease fell to 64% since June 6, the Health Ministry said. At the same time the vaccine was 93% effective in preventing hospitalizations and serious illness from the coronavirus. Fine by me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Israel sees drop in Pfizer vaccine protection against infections WWW.REUTERS.COM Israel reported on Monday a decrease in the effectiveness of the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine in preventing infections and symptomatic illness but said it remained highly effective in preventing serious illness. Fine by me! I really, really hate the way the media has/is reporting the stats on the pandemic. Like, people-should-go-to-jail mad. The phrase "the vaccine is 93% effective in preventing hospitalization and severe illness" seems like it means "if you get it, there is a 7% chance you will be hospitalized." What it actually means is "if you get it, you have a 93% lower chance of being hospitalized than someone without the vaccine." So if a regular person has a 5% chance (making that up), then you have a 0.35% chance. The same is true of the "efficacy" number at preventing contraction—if the number is 64%, then you have a 64% lower chance of catching it, you don't have a 36% chance of catching it (or 64% chance of not catching it). The amount of confusion and mistrust this sort of reporting is causing all over the internet and world is horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 6, 2021 Author Share Posted July 6, 2021 Vaccine hesitancy is most highly correlated with lack of formal education -- more than any other factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 6, 2021 Author Share Posted July 6, 2021 2 hours ago, sblfilms said: Taking our 14 year old this week to get dosed with some of that Pfizer juice. Based on the data I've been seeing, seems like healthy kids likely only need one dose for some very robust protection, so that is pretty neat. Our 11 year old turns 12 in September, so he'll be next on the list for a shot. My 13-year old already has the shot -- now trying to get him hooked up with his second (they opened up booking for his age group this week). My 11-year old can't get his until October... My 5-year old will likely not get hers until close to Xmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 @silentbob how long did it take for you to get the e-mail to reschedule, because I'm still waiting on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentbob Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 @BrickMine was pretty much instant. When it opened up to me on the Monday, I got on the site around 9:30am. I was directed to Halton site, no code and entered my health card number and asked me to select my new appointment date. Clicked on the closest one I could get (tomorrow) and 1:15 time, site confirmed and email confirmation received about 5 minutes after that. Check your spam just in case but mine showed up in my regular emails. I was sent a reminder of tomorrow’s appointment via email on Sat or Sun as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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