Movies The Snyder Cut is real...and it's SPECTACULAR!

[Jason]

42 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Probably because he thought it was stupid and didn't "Get it".

 

Still just seems like such a weirdly down in the weeds thing to get so butthurt about. Like, didn't Tom Welling not put on the Superman suit for Smallville in large part over some type of typecasting fear? That seems more like the level you'd expect these things to get up to for the actors to care so much about it.

[skillzdadirecta]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Still just seems like such a weirdly down in the weeds thing to get so butthurt about. Like, didn't Tom Welling not put on the Superman suit for Smallville in large part over some type of typecasting fear? That seems more like the level you'd expect these things to get up to for the actors to care so much about it.

You'd be surprised some of the things that actors and directors damn near go to blows over. Artistic types are equal parts insecure AND egotistical.

[BloodyHell]

1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Whedon is a writer first so I'm SURE he's a stickler for his lines being performed as written. I feel like I may have seen something to that effect somewhere too.

Oh, he definitely is. The Firefly production was notorious for it.

[Brick]

2 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

Wasn’t there also scuttlebutt that Gadot didn’t want to do the scene where The Flash accidentally gropes Wonder Woman, so her stunt double did it?

 

Uh what? 

[Spork3245]

Whedon was given a job that involved saving a giant piece of shit that was like 90% finished and turn it into a slightly smaller piece of shit that has like 4 less flies on it. You’d be pissy and difficult to work with too in that situation.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

 

Still just seems like such a weirdly down in the weeds thing to get so butthurt about. Like, didn't Tom Welling not put on the Superman suit for Smallville in large part over some type of typecasting fear? That seems more like the level you'd expect these things to get up to for the actors to care so much about it.

Context seems important here. Fisher wasn’t bent out of shape over the line, he was upset over how Whedon handled notes from the actors on such issues.

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, Brick said:

 

Uh what? 

 

There's a scene in Justice League where The Flash grabs Wonder Woman and runs super fast but ends up falling on top of her as he saves her. He then awkwardly super fast gets off of her and has a super awkward look on his face as Wonder Woman barely realizes everything that just happened. Groped seems aggressive here, I thought it was a funny little bit of physical comedy but yeah.

[skillzdadirecta]

Kevin Smith says he too heard about Whedon's bad behavior on set.

 

Quote

filmmaker Kevin Smith has revealed on the latest episode of his podcast Fatman Beyond that he's heard of similar allegations from crew members involved in the production. "Remember went I went to the Skywalker set and some people had worked on both Solo and Justice League? The special effects guy said there was a fair amount of trash-talking of Zack's version of the movie on-set by Joss," Smith told his co-host Marc Bernardin. "Again, this is what a special effects guy who worked on both versions of the movie told me. But that he [Whedon] would cut down, dismiss, and be negative about Zack's version, which he had seen and all these people had made together without him and stuff."

 I mean  it's not like Whedon was wrong,  but that is in incredibly bad taste. 

[skillzdadirecta]

Cyborg actor says Joss Whedon is "under investigation"

 

Not sure who exactly would be investigating him but...

 

Quote

Back at the beginning of the month, Cyborg actor Ray Fisher tweeted a video of him speaking at SDCC 2017, where he praised Joss Whedon as a "great guy," with this caption: "I’d like to take a moment to forcefully retract every bit of this statement."The actor then went on to say that Whedon's "on-set treatment of the cast and crew of Justice League was gross, abusive, unprofessional, and completely unacceptable" and that former DC Films co-leads Geoff Johns and Jon Berg "enabled" the behavior.

Now, during Fisher's Justice Con panel, Fisher said, replying to a question about his previous statements, "Obviously I put out some pretty strong words, and some pretty strong comments about Joss Whedon and every single one of those words, and every single one of those comments is true." Fisher then added "there is a process that is being undergone as we speak to get to the heart of everything that I’m talking about."

"The man is probably scared," Fisher said, "and he should be because we are going to get to the heart of everything -- everything -- that went down."

 

[Spork3245]

11 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Cyborg actor says Joss Whedon is "under investigation"

 

Not sure who exactly would be investigating him but...

 

 

I’m confused. What exactly is being investigated? That Whedon is “mean”?

[TwinIon]

From the recent comic con panel:

Quote

 

Snyder insists that the only crossover between his version and the 2017 movie (which he claims to have never seen) are scenes that he previously shot and were repurposed by producers. He made a point to say that none of the reshoot footage would be used in the HBO Max edition.

 

“There will be no chance on Earth that I would use a shot that was made after I left the movie,” Snyder said. “I would rather destroy the movie, I would set it on fire, then use a single frame that I did not photograph. That is a fucking hard fact.”

 

 

I find it very hard to believe that he never watched the 2017 movie. Maybe he didn't see it in theaters, but never having seen it at all, even if just in chunks as it was going through production, would be surprising.

 

His insistence that he only use footage that he shot should make things interesting. It'll make it pretty easy to figure out exactly what were re-shoots.

 

I still think that the most likely outcome of all this is that we end up with two bad versions of the same movie.

[Kal-El814]

4 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

From the recent comic con panel:

 

I find it very hard to believe that he never watched the 2017 movie. Maybe he didn't see it in theaters, but never having seen it at all, even if just in chunks as it was going through production, would be surprising.

 

His insistence that he only use footage that he shot should make things interesting. It'll make it pretty easy to figure out exactly what were re-shoots.

 

I still think that the most likely outcome of all this is that we end up with two bad versions of the same movie.

 

I still really want the Snyder cut to restore Cavill’s mustache in random scenes and include no other changes.

 

Also...

 

6 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

I would rather destroy the movie, I would set it on fire, then use a single frame that I did not photograph. That is a fucking hard fact.

 

Not to be all picky and shit... but wouldn’t there have been a second unit for a movie this big? I refuse to believe there’s a cut of this movie that only Snyder himself photographed.

[TwinIon]

8 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Not to be all picky and shit... but wouldn’t there have been a second unit for a movie this big? I refuse to believe there’s a cut of this movie that only Snyder himself photographed.

I was thinking the same thing. Also, if he hasn't seen the footage, why the hard line? It's pretty normal on a movie like this to require reshoots even on scenes that you tried to capture in the first place. It seems weird to refuse to use any additional takes of scenes that will be included.

 

I'm guessing it's mostly a way to lay claim to this as his, and only his version of the film, which, to be fair, is probably a decent marketing move if nothing else.

[skillzdadirecta]

7 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

I’m confused. What exactly is being investigated? That Whedon is “mean”?

That's my question as well... apparently he was REALLY abusive.

[Brick]

On 7/27/2020 at 4:09 PM, Kal-El814 said:

Not to be all picky and shit... but wouldn’t there have been a second unit for a movie this big? I refuse to believe there’s a cut of this movie that only Snyder himself photographed.

 

I was thinking about this as well, but maybe he's also including anything that his second unit shot. Unless he's one of those directors that doesn't like using a second unit. Christopher Nolan famously doesn't use a second unit. 

[Kal-El814]

1 minute ago, Brick said:

 

I was thinking about this as well, but maybe he's also including anything that his second unit shot. Unless he's one of those directors that doesn't like using a second unit. Christopher Nolan famously doesn't use a second unit. 

 

It had one, according to IMDB.

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, Brick said:

 

I was thinking about this as well, but maybe he's also including anything that his second unit shot. Unless he's one of those directors that doesn't like using a second unit. Christopher Nolan famously doesn't use a second unit. 

 

I think he definitely means anything shot after he left production. Anything done under him, even second unit, I imagine he'll definitely include. He just won't include anything that was done under Whedon, even second unit under Whedon, is what he means I think.

[Brick]

44 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I think he definitely means anything shot after he left production. Anything done under him, even second unit, I imagine he'll definitely include. He just won't include anything that was done under Whedon, even second unit under Whedon, is what he means I think.

 

Pretty much. 

[Spork3245]

I can’t wait for this to release and be an even bigger POS than what was in theaters.

[Brick]

If he's only using footage he shot, and there won't be any reshoots, how exactly is Snyder going to make a finished movie? He left mid-production before principle photography was complete, didn't he? 

[Kal-El814]

4 hours ago, Brick said:

If he's only using footage he shot, and there won't be any reshoots, how exactly is Snyder going to make a finished movie? He left mid-production before principle photography was complete, didn't he? 

 

The movie being 75 minutes long could only improve it.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Brick said:

If he's only using footage he shot, and there won't be any reshoots, how exactly is Snyder going to make a finished movie? He left mid-production before principle photography was complete, didn't he? 

I think he left in the break between principal photography finishing and additional photography being scheduled.

[Greatoneshere]

16 hours ago, Brick said:

If he's only using footage he shot, and there won't be any reshoots, how exactly is Snyder going to make a finished movie? He left mid-production before principle photography was complete, didn't he? 

 

He left after principal photography had finished, just no pick-up shots/reshoots were done yet. His daughter committed suicide in March 2017, he left the production in May 2017, and the movie came out in November 2017. So it wasn't that long between when he left the movie and it came out (just 8 months). And let's be clear, Snyder leaving the production due to his daughter's suicide is just a cover - he was forced out, with that being the excuse, once test screenings were done and WB execs hated it (though they may not have been in the right mind, wanting the opposite of Batman v Superman at the time due to its colossal failure). You don't wait two months after your daughter's suicide to leave production - you'd have left right away. WB had also ultimately mandated a film under two hours, which won't happen here.

 

12 hours ago, sblfilms said:

I think he left in the break between principal photography finishing and additional photography being scheduled.

 

Yeah, this.

[Guest]

Didn’t BVS make like 900 million world wide? It’s crazy how expectations drive perceptions. 

[Joe]

This thread is fascinating. The whole time I'm reading it I'm wondering how anyone could think this won't be a huge piece of shit, and yet, I can't stop reading it!

[skillzdadirecta]

Batman vs Superman was a colossal failure? On what planet?

[Greatoneshere]

57 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Didn’t BVS make like 900 million world wide? It’s crazy how expectations drive perceptions. 

 

16 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Batman vs Superman was a colossal failure? On what planet?

 

I meant, like, in that it was a bad movie, and WB execs tried to right the ship with Justice League in the midst of production. I didn't mean in terms of box office (though I believe WB expected the movie to make more than it even did).

[sexy_shapiro]

It made 870 mill but apparently WB was counting on it making it at least a billion in order to be considered a financial success.

[skillzdadirecta]

53 minutes ago, sexy_shapiro said:

It made 870 mill but apparently WB was counting on it making it at least a billion in order to be considered a financial success.

You have a source for this? No way they were "counting on it making a billion". At the time Billion dollar grosses weren't that common for blockbusters... 

 

Here's an article that breaks down the numbers... which don't lie

 

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At first Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice enjoyed a wonderful opening weekend but then suffered a 69% drop, which is so bad, so terrible in cinema history that this was built up as WB’s own 'Great Depression'. Do you recall the doomsday prophets with things like "the movie needs to make over $800 million or even $1 billion just to break even"? You could find plenty of these claims in the first month and a half of the film’s release. Yet, are they true? Let us forget the critical side of this film and look purely at its economics. Let's look at a few other movies to see in comparison, if Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice is the financial disaster many claim it to be. Finally, let's find out if Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice was a box office flop or made a profit for Warner Bros.

 

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Estimates and pre-sales leading up to the film were huge, where its pre-ticket sales outpaced that of hugely successful films, such as The Dark Knight Rises, The Avengers & Furious 7. According to Fandango at the time, BvS was its top pre-selling superhero film. The film itself made over $27 million on Thursday night preview screens across the United States of its 3,800 theater count. Warner Bros. projected a rather conservative number of $110 million opening compared to other higher numbers and predictions. Estimates for the foreign market opening were around the $200 million range according to some analysts. In the end, Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice would bring us an expected $300–$340 million worldwide opening. No matter how you dice it–the film was ready to serve a huge portion for people, but how did it fare?

 

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This is when the apocalypse begins for most people, when the second weekend drop came. Yes, that horrible 69 percent drop did not look very good, I will admit. This comes from the fact that there are two variables they do not take into consideration, so this needs to be put into context.

One, the film opened on Easter weekend, and on average, holidays can lead to increased ticket sales. Second, they do take into account the Thursday night preview screenings in opening weekends. This is odd, given that Thursday is not part of the weekend–at all! In addition, the old Thursday night midnight screenings are a thing of the past, when now you can see the film as early as seven PM on average. Therefore, the number is inflated, making the second weekend drop harder, even though the next weekend does not count what is considered the first Thursday now. A second weekend drop of 63 percent would be the amount had we not factored in Thursday night.

Now it must be stated there are films with significantly worse second weekend drops. Actually, Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice does not even make the top 100 when it comes to that list. As far as big franchise films go that did worse than Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice, they include from worst to the absolute worst–The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn Part 2, The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn Part 1, The Twilight Saga: New Moon, Alien: Covenant, Hellboy II: The Golden Army, Paranormal Activity 4, Jason Goes to Hell: The Final Friday, Predators, Harry Potter and The Deathly Hallows: Part 2, A Nightmare on Elm Street (2010), Friday the 13th (2009), and I think I will end it there for now.

 

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Near the end of the run Warner Bros. domestic distribution chief Jeff Goldstein said "This is a fantastic result, by any measure." After this statement the film churned out an extra $10 million, by the end of the film’s run it made over $330.3 million domestically ,and over $542.9 million internationally for a worldwide gross of $873.2 million. Hence, it is in the top of the DC echelons of worldwide box office runs. Domestically and worldwide it is the third best-selling Batman film.

 

It was the sixth best-selling video title sold in 2016, selling over 3.5 combined million units for a total revenue of $73.9 million. It was the #1 best-selling DVD for four weeks and the #1 best-selling Blu-ray for three weeks. Now to date the film has made over $78.3 million in revenue, with over $22.3 million of that coming from DVDs and over $56 million of that coming from Blu-Rays.

Believe it or not this beats some MCU video releases such as Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Ant-Man, Doctor Strange, Guardians of The Galaxy Vol. 2,Spider-Man: Homecoming, Thor: Ragnarok, Ant-Man and the Wasp. It loses to Captain America: Civil War by barely a million. This video juggernaut crushes others amongst the competition, such as The Amazing Spider-Man 2 from Sony. Meanwhile, Fox's X-Men: First Class and X-Men: Apocalypse rank under as well. Understandably it does not pull off Avengers or The Dark Knight numbers for home video, but keep in mind some of these videos have been out longer than Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice, and cannot out do it, even with better reviews it would appear.

 

 

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Now sure this all sounds great in theory, but you are wondering if the film truly was a flop like many beckon it to be. The clear answer is a resounding no. Warner Bros. turned a profit of $105.7 million from Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice.

 

This may sound odd given the total worldwide box office gross, and its production budget of $250 million. You must keep in mind, there are other hidden costs like marketing, residuals, interests, over-heads etc. Yes, there are other superhero films, especially those over at the MCU raking in much more in profits. Yet, before you drift off and table this as a minor success, I would argue this means a lot. We have other superhero films like The Amazing Spider-Man 2, X-Men: Days of Future Past making smaller profits, in fact they do not even crack $100 million. The former was such a disappointment that it called for a reboot.

 

Meanwhile, Man of Steel had a production budget only $25 million less than Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice, but in the end turned a profit of $42.7 million for Warner Bros. Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice one-upped Man of Steel completely. This shows the movie is capable of actual growth, over 30 percent growth in fact. Notice Warner Bros. did not immediately call for a reboot, nor kick off its director. Batman Returns did not out-do its 1989 predecessor, so Warner Bros. showed Tim Burton the door. Batman & Robin failed to beat Batman Forever, and well you know the ending of that story. Both cases the sequel made roughly 30 percent less than the predecessor, a complete reversal in the case of Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice. Yes, this $105.7 million is not the $200 million or $300 million that Disney produces, but it is still money in the bank now.

 

 I didn't even LIKE the movie but number are numbers and facts are facts. 

[TwinIon]

BvS wasn't a box office catastrophe, but I think it's fair to call it a failure. It underperformed slightly at the box office, but more than that, it clearly hurt the potential audience for DC movies going forward, which I think is reflected in Justice League's opening weekend. Maybe if JL was a really great movie, the final total would have been better, but think a good chunk of why JL opened $70M below BvS was due to how BvS was received.

[skillzdadirecta]

7 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

BvS wasn't a box office catastrophe, but I think it's fair to call it a failure. It underperformed slightly at the box office, but more than that, it clearly hurt the potential audience for DC movies going forward, which I think is reflected in Justice League's opening weekend. Maybe if JL was a really great movie, the final total would have been better, but think a good chunk of why JL opened $70M below BvS was due to how BvS was received.

How? Wonder Woman and Aquaman were both HITS and they came after Justice League which performed even WORSE than BVS.  By your logic, Justice League should have hurt Wonder Woman and then Aquaman. MAYBE audiences judge these movies individually based on the movies themselves? Is that possible?

 

Edit: Wonder Woman came BEFORE Justice League but AFTER Suicide Squad which is also considered a flop... Aquaman came after Justice League. My point still stands 

 

Edit 2: So you had two movies in between BVS and Justice League... one was considered a flop, the other was considered a hit... but BvS is responsible for Justice League's underperformance?

[sexy_shapiro]

15 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

You have a source for this? No way they were "counting on it making a billion". At the time Billion dollar grosses weren't that common for blockbusters... 

 

Here's an article that breaks down the numbers... which don't lie

 

 

 

 

 

 I didn't even LIKE the movie but number are numbers and facts are facts. 

lol, if they are going off the budgets, then they absolutely do lie. Everyone knows not to trust Hollywood bookkeeping. BvS was supposedly close to half a billion to make.

 

Also, it the movie was a hit, then WB wouldn’t have meddled in Justice League as much as they did. You can argue otherwise, but if they were truly happy with BvS then their actions would have said otherwise.

[TwinIon]

2 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

How? Wonder Woman and Aquaman were both HITS and they came after Justice League which performed even WORSE than BVS.  By your logic, Justice League should have hurt Wonder Woman and then Aquaman. MAYBE audiences judge these movies individually based on the movies themselves? Is that possible?

 

Edit: Wonder Woman came BEFORE Justice League but AFTER Suicide Squad which is also considered a flop... Aquaman came after Justice League. My point still stands 

Maybe I was being overly broad by saying "DC movies" since DC was opening multiple movies that had little to do with each other very quickly. Still,  I think when such a poorly received movie centers around two of the most popular comic book characters of all time, it hurts the BO of the next films featuring those characters, which in a connected universe, is probably bad for those films in general.

 

Still, even with pretty good reviews, Aquaman only opened to $67M. People liked it, buzz grew, people kept going, and it did well. As I said, I wasn't even blaming JL's total BO take on BvS, just it's poor opening.

[skillzdadirecta]

1 minute ago, sexy_shapiro said:

lol, if they are going off the budgets, then they absolutely do lie. Everyone knows not to trust Hollywood bookkeeping. BvS was supposedly close to half a billion to make.

 

Also, it the movie was a hit, then WB wouldn’t have meddled in Justice League as much as they did. You can argue otherwise, but if they were truly happy with BvS then their actions would have said otherwise.

They lie about profits with shady Hollywood accounting... not the budgets. If anything they often INFLATE the budgets in order to maximize their losses and to cheat profit participants out of monies they're owed. The don't UNDER REPORT budgets because that serves them absolutely NO PURPOSE financially. You have that wrong bud.

 

As far as them meddling with Justice League (and also Suicide Squad) The suits wanted to emulate what Marvel was doing and the unexpected hit that Marvel had with Guardians of The Galaxy. They figured that Marvel's movies were doing better because they were "lighter and more comedic" and they tried to force feed that formula into their movies instead of just making good movies. That logic is WHY we're getting a Snyder cut because DC fans feel like the meddling is what made Justice League bad and if Snyder had just been allowed to make his film, it wouldn't have done as bad. I mean why are we even GETTING a Snyder cut then?

 

[skillzdadirecta]

16 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

Maybe I was being overly broad by saying "DC movies" since DC was opening multiple movies that had little to do with each other very quickly. Still,  I think when such a poorly received movie centers around two of the most popular comic book characters of all time, it hurts the BO of the next films featuring those characters, which in a connected universe, is probably bad for those films in general.

 

Still, even with pretty good reviews, Aquaman only opened to $67M. People liked it, buzz grew, people kept going, and it did well. As I said, I wasn't even blaming JL's total BO take on BvS, just it's poor opening.

And BAD reviews and poor word of mouth are what led to Justice League's underperforming opening weekend... Not Batman vs Superman because if that were true, it would have also hurt the two DC movies that came out after it Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman (by your logic because Wonder Woman was also featured in BvS).

 

Suicide Squad's opening weekend Box Office: 133 million (fourth best opening box office of all time for DC super hero movies behind Dark Knight (3) Dark Knight Rises (2) and Batman vs Superman (1)

Wonder Woman's opening weekend Box Office: 103 million (Sixth best opening weekend of all time for DC super hero movies behind Man of Steel (5) and the four mentioned above.

 

So, by your logic, how does Batman vs Superman's "Failure" lead to Justice League's bad opening weekend but not the two movies that came directly after it?

 

Here's a list of the top 15 DC movies by Opening Weekend Box office to date

 

1. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice ($166 million)
2. The Dark Knight Rises ($160.9 million)
3. The Dark Knight ($158.4 million)
4. Suicide Squad ($133.7 million)
5. Man of Steel ($116.6 million)
6. Wonder Woman ($103.3 million)
7. Joker ($96.2 million)
8. Justice League ($93.8 million)
9. Aquaman ($67.9 million)
10. Watchmen ($55.2 million)
11. Birds of Prey ($55 million)
12. Shazam! ($53.5 million)
13. Green Lantern ($53.2 million)
14. The Lego Batman Movie ($53 million)
15. Batman Forever ($52.8 million)