Television ‘Daredevil’ Hits Reset Button as Marvel Overhauls Its TV Business (The Hollywood Reporter)

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

‘Daredevil’ Hits Reset Button as Marvel Overhauls Its TV Business

WWW.HOLLYWOODREPORTER.COM

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Launched during the pandemic with a playbook to shoot $150 million-plus seasons with no pilots, the Disney unit is undergoing growing pains and seeing the logic of "traditional TV culture."

 

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It didn’t take long to see the problem after Marvel Studios’ Daredevil: Born Again paused production in mid-June during the writers strike. Fewer than half of the series’ 18 episodes had been shot, but it was enough for Marvel executives, including chief Kevin Feige, to review the footage and come away with a clear-eyed assessment: The show wasn’t working.

 

So, in late September, Marvel quietly let go of head writers Chris Ord and Matt Corman and also released the directors for the remainder of the season as part of a significant creative reboot of the series, The Hollywood Reporter has learned. The studio is now on the hunt for new writers and directors for the project, which stars Charlie Cox as Matt Murdock, a blind lawyer turned superhero.

 

 

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Through it all, the company eschewed the traditional TV-making model. It didn’t commission pilots but instead shot entire $150 million-plus seasons of TV on the fly. It didn’t hire showrunners, but instead depended on film executives to run its series. And as Marvel does for its movies, it relied on postproduction and reshoots to fix what wasn’t working.

 

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But sources say that Corman and Ord crafted a legal procedural that did not resemble the Netflix version, known for its action and violence. Cox didn’t even show up in costume until the fourth episode. Marvel, after greenlighting the concept, found itself needing to rethink the original intention of the show.

 

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As it moves forward, Marvel is making concrete changes in how it makes TV. It now has plans to hire showrunners. Gao’s postproduction work on She-Hulk helped Marvel see that it would be helpful for its shows to have a creative throughline from start to finish.

 

“It’s a term we’ve not only grown comfortable with but also learned to embrace,” says Winderbaum of showrunners and Marvel TV’s intention to hire them.

 

The studio also plans on having full-time TV execs, rather than having executives straddle both television and film.

 

“We need executives that are dedicated to this medium, that are going to focus on streaming, focus on television,” says Winderbaum, “because they are two different forms.” 

 

It also is revamping its development process. Showrunners will write pilots and show bibles. The days of Marvel shooting an entire series, from She-Hulk to Secret Invasion, then looking at what’s working and what’s not, are done.

 

 

[Kal-El814]

I don't think I'm in a position to reliably tell when something ends up in production hell or fixed in post. In fact, I'd wager that most people don't notice or care as long as the vibes are good. Both Rogue One and Endgame seem very obviously cobbled together in some spots but in general people don't seen to mind.

 

Regardless I think it's really tough to do anything differently when you're dealing with well established practices and standards, especially so when you want the outcome to basically be the same. At the end of the day any of these MCU shows is basically a season of prestige TV even if it's a cog in a larger machine, the notion that you can change the ingredients and tools involved in making the sausage but still end up with sausage at the end is borderline magical thinking. It's a weird testament to Disney's clout that they could do it at all even if that's not necessarily a good thing.

[Brick]

These things never had showrunners!? That's wild to think about. Maybe that's part of why so many of these things have felt merely "OK". 

[Greatoneshere]

2 minutes ago, Brick said:

These things never had showrunners!? That's wild to think about. Maybe that's part of why so many of these things have felt merely "OK". 

 

If the reporting is accurate, some of this shit is absolutely bonkers. " It didn’t hire showrunners, but instead depended on film executives to run its series." Wut. Also the description of the version that Disney was making sounds lame as fuck. People want the Netflix version, season 4, or as close to it as Disney+ will allow, and they were just making some legal procedural that didn't resemble the Netflix version at all? Like, why bother then? I'm not against Daredevil focusing on the legal side of things but to do it to a degree that it doesn't resemble the Netflix show is wild to me when that's the entire intention here.

 

"It now has plans to hire showrunners. Gao’s postproduction work on She-Hulk helped Marvel see that it would be helpful for its shows to have a creative throughline from start to finish . . . The studio also plans on having full-time TV execs, rather than having executives straddle both television and film. It also is revamping its development process. Showrunners will write pilots and show bibles. The days of Marvel shooting an entire series, from She-Hulk to Secret Invasion, then looking at what’s working and what’s not, are done."

 

So basically what many other studios already knew? It's like they just went to "how to make a successful TV show 101" at a undergraduate business school. 

 

[Chairslinger]

3 minutes ago, Brick said:

These things never had showrunners!? That's wild to think about. Maybe that's part of why so many of these things have felt merely "OK". 

 

Wanda and Hawkeye were really good, and then Falcon and the Winter Soldier was good but also felt a bit like checking a box to get the shield on Sam. All of the shows since have been pretty bland to me. Secret Invasion really drove it home to me that not only are these shows just alright, somewhere along the way the shorter seasons went from making each episode feel special to being like.....oh, it's like a regular show only you get half or even a quarter of the episodes...fun!

 

The thing that really hit me with Secret Invasion was that I had just finished a rewatch of Agents of Shield. While there have been some real gems with the short show prestige stuff from streaming channels.....if you want a stark contrast to the other side of the coin of how we have reinvented television for the worst go watch AoS and then SI and appreciate that it is basically just a season of AoS.....with one fourth of the content.....and you have to pay for it....

[legend]

Um yeah, who the fuck thought anyone was watching Daredevil for its riveting legal stories? Him being a lawyer provides context for the character and a duality of working both within the law and outside it. That's about it.

[Keyser_Soze]

Half the shows I watch involve lawyers in some way. Yes they are disgusting but it could work. I don't have faith Disney could, but it could work!

[Jason]

23 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

If the reporting is accurate, some of this shit is absolutely bonkers. " It didn’t hire showrunners, but instead depended on film executives to run its series." Wut. Also the description of the version that Disney was making sounds lame as fuck. People want the Netflix version, season 4, or as close to it as Disney+ will allow, and they were just making some legal procedural that didn't resemble the Netflix version at all? Like, why bother then? I'm not against Daredevil focusing on the legal side of things but to do it to a degree that it doesn't resemble the Netflix show is wild to me when that's the entire intention here.

 

"It now has plans to hire showrunners. Gao’s postproduction work on She-Hulk helped Marvel see that it would be helpful for its shows to have a creative throughline from start to finish . . . The studio also plans on having full-time TV execs, rather than having executives straddle both television and film. It also is revamping its development process. Showrunners will write pilots and show bibles. The days of Marvel shooting an entire series, from She-Hulk to Secret Invasion, then looking at what’s working and what’s not, are done."

 

So basically what many other studios already knew? It's like they just went to "how to make a successful TV show 101" at a undergraduate business school. 

 

 

I wonder if completely ignoring TV basics was an over-correction from getting rid of that guy who used to be in charge of the TV shows on ABC and Netflix who had the mutual hatred with Feige.

 

[Jason]

18 minutes ago, Chairslinger said:

Wanda and Hawkeye were really good, and then Falcon and the Winter Soldier was good but also felt a bit like checking a box to get the shield on Sam. All of the shows since have been pretty bland to me. Secret Invasion really drove it home to me that not only are these shows just alright, somewhere along the way the shorter seasons went from making each episode feel special to being like.....oh, it's like a regular show only you get half or even a quarter of the episodes...fun!

 

The thing that really hit me with Secret Invasion was that I had just finished a rewatch of Agents of Shield. While there have been some real gems with the short show prestige stuff from streaming channels.....if you want a stark contrast to the other side of the coin of how we have reinvented television for the worst go watch AoS and then SI and appreciate that it is basically just a season of AoS.....with one fourth of the content.....and you have to pay for it....

 

Falcon and the Winter Soldier mostly felt like it just got butchered by the last minute removal of a lot of the "we think this is too close to the pandemic people are currently living through" content without reshoots to replace any of that cut content, which made the show feel pretty adrift beyond teeing up Sam.

[Massdriver]

They didn't have showrunners!? 

[Greatoneshere]

44 minutes ago, Chairslinger said:

Wanda and Hawkeye were really good, and then Falcon and the Winter Soldier was good but also felt a bit like checking a box to get the shield on Sam. All of the shows since have been pretty bland to me. Secret Invasion really drove it home to me that not only are these shows just alright, somewhere along the way the shorter seasons went from making each episode feel special to being like.....oh, it's like a regular show only you get half or even a quarter of the episodes...fun!

 

The thing that really hit me with Secret Invasion was that I had just finished a rewatch of Agents of Shield. While there have been some real gems with the short show prestige stuff from streaming channels.....if you want a stark contrast to the other side of the coin of how we have reinvented television for the worst go watch AoS and then SI and appreciate that it is basically just a season of AoS.....with one fourth of the content.....and you have to pay for it....

 

This is how I would rank them (since the ABC/Netflix stuff ended): 

 

Good MCU TV: WandaVision, Loki (season 1), What If (season 1), Moon Knight

 

Solid if unremarkable MCU TV: Hawkeye, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk: Attorney at Law

 

Bad MCU TV: Secret Invasion

 

I know a lot of people were fans of Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk but the problem for me with those two shows is that they were too slight to be memorable. And I should be clear I liked and enjoyed them. They were well done for "smaller" or more "civilian" level superheroes but most of both shows have not lingered in my mind since I saw them whereas certain things from WandaVision (like three episodes of just emulating old sitcom eras), Loki (just all of it), What If (great stories with great animation with wild scenarios) and Moon Knight (all the Egyptian stuff, multiple personality stuff, making the sky change, etc.) have stayed with me since, making them more memorable. Hawkeye and The Falcon and the Winter Soldier start strong and have good moments but each ultimately just sort of ends and fades out, something made much worse in Secret Invasion, which started strong for an episode or two and quickly devolved into nonsense.

 

Of upcoming shows, Loki season 2 has started strong so far but we're only one episode into the season. I'm looking forward to What If season 2, I think that should be good. As for Echo, I'll watch it but they're going to have to somehow get me invested in a random supporting character from Hawkeye. I like the representation but we'll see. Same goes for Agatha: Darkhold Diaries, which has gone through three name changes, never a good sign. I liked WandaVision, but that's because we were invested in Vision-Scarlet Witch from the films. Having a show about the villain from WandaVision is again, something I'll watch but they'll have to work to get me invested because I didn't really care about Agatha getting a show to begin with, like Echo, sort of random (a gateway into the more magick-y MCU stuff I imagine they want to set up). Ironheart was the absolute worst part of Black Panther: Wakanda Forever so I have little hope a show focusing on her will be good, more annoying child genius stuff I imagine, we'll see. And of course I was excited for Daredevil: Born Again until this news. Still looking forward to it but cautiously so now.

 

26 minutes ago, Jason said:

I wonder if completely ignoring TV basics was an over-correction from getting rid of that guy who used to be in charge of the TV shows on ABC and Netflix who had the mutual hatred with Feige.

 

That definitely played a part in it I think but I can't then understand the thinking behind saying "we relied on film executives instead of showrunners" but then they say they never had full-time TV execs, instead using the same ones, making them straddle executive producing both MCU films and MCU TV shows. Like, there's over-correcting and then creating an ouroboros where no one's actually in charge.

[Kal-El814]

49 minutes ago, legend said:

Um yeah, who the fuck thought anyone was watching Daredevil for its riveting legal stories? Him being a lawyer provides context for the character and a duality of working both within the law and outside it. That's about it.

 

I mean you could do that. But you'd have to... actually do that. There's probably juice to get from the squeeze of a lawyer who wants to do the right thing, but also beats the shit out of people at night, but who can also tell when people are lying, but it's probably not ethical to use a superpower like that in court, who's Catholic so believes in the sacrament of confession granting god's forgiveness, but who wants to punish criminals, so how does he deal with the intersection of those things...etc. This was made more stark in whatever season Punisher was in where they moved him to trial in 48 hours or something dumb.

 

34 minutes ago, Jason said:

Falcon and the Winter Soldier mostly felt like it just got butchered by the last minute removal of a lot of the "we think this is too close to the pandemic people are currently living through" content without reshoots to replace any of that cut content, which made the show feel pretty adrift beyond teeing up Sam.

 

For me, F&TWS just felt like it had too much stuff on its Christmas List. Experimenting on black soldiers to make the Super Soldier Serum, setting up Thunderbolts, dealing with Zemo, dealing with Cap's legacy, dealing with Bucky's stuff, Zemo and Wakanda, and that's before you add the ostensible antagonist of the show and sprinkle Covid dust all over it. That show should have been distilled a couple more times before it was bottled.

 

[skillzdadirecta]

1 hour ago, legend said:

Um yeah, who the fuck thought anyone was watching Daredevil for its riveting legal stories? Him being a lawyer provides context for the character and a duality of working both within the law and outside it. That's about it.

So a buddy of mine met to be a writer on this show about a year ago and told me this was the direction they were heading in and I told him that it sounded fucking stupid. He passed on the job eventually... good for him. Marvel, especially on the TV side, may be due for an entire reboot.

[Jason]

46 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

So a buddy of mine met to be a writer on this show about a year ago and told me this was the direction they were heading in and I told him that it sounded fucking stupid. He passed on the job eventually... good for him. Marvel, especially on the TV side, may be due for an entire reboot.

 

Iron Fist: Infinite Crisis?

[legend]

2 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

I mean you could do that. But you'd have to... actually do that. There's probably juice to get from the squeeze of a lawyer who wants to do the right thing, but also beats the shit out of people at night, but who can also tell when people are lying, but it's probably not ethical to use a superpower like that in court, who's Catholic so believes in the sacrament of confession granting god's forgiveness, but who wants to punish criminals, so how does he deal with the intersection of those things...etc. This was made more stark in whatever season Punisher was in where they moved him to trial in 48 hours or something dumb.

 

 

Oh to be clear, I meant that duality of the character is good and what it's used for. The actual legal stories themselves are not the part that's interesting though and it seems counterproductive to try and make that the focus and interesting.

[thewhyteboar]

I haven’t watched any so I can’t opine, I’m just shocked they didn’t have showrunners? 

[silentbob]

 

Good I love Charlie Cox. He went as Bluey for the the NYC ComicCon and even did the panel in this getup.