Congressional bipartisan public hearing on UFOs and aliens begins tomorrow

[Kamusha]

It's weird that there is official footage from the Pentagon of a UFO and is not being considered in this discourse. Like, it's good to be skeptical, but when you're ignoring possible evidence it's very clear you actively don't want to believe, or unable to comprehend what reality would mean if it were true.

[TUFKAK]

Just now, Kamusha said:

It's weird that there is official footage from the Pentagon of a UFO and is not being considered in this discourse. Like, it's good to be skeptical, but when you're ignoring possible evidence it's very clear you actively don't want to believe, or unable to comprehend what reality would mean if it were true.

Let’s keep in mind what the U means in UFO.

[Kamusha]

17 hours ago, thewhyteboar said:

Funny how UFO sightings have gone way down ever since everyone starting carrying a camera in their pockets. Huh. 

 

This is a false premise. The amount of sightings have increased in recent years.

 

UFO sightings are up, but no proof of aliens yet, Pentagon official says - POLITICO

WWW.POLITICO.COM

---

The Defense Department is now investigating 650 cases of unknown aerial incursions.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, Kamusha said:

It's weird that there is official footage from the Pentagon of a UFO and is not being considered in this discourse. Like, it's good to be skeptical, but when you're ignoring possible evidence it's very clear you actively don't want to believe, or unable to comprehend what reality would mean if it were true.

 

Oh - we're very much considering the gun-cam footage from the DoD.

 

We just don't think that it's particularly good evidence of an UAP of non-terrestrial origin.

[TUFKAK]

That article was bollocks, didn’t provide context or a relevant time frame about this “increase” it eludes to other than its up since august. Well boy howdy I’m sold.

[Kamusha]

2 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

Let’s keep in mind what the U means in UFO.

 

It's more in response to those dismissing the testimony of those who've reported these sightings. It is clear that the Pentagon is taking this seriously and there is something out there we can't full comprehend. Could be terrestrial or could not. But at this point we have to accept something is happening.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

3 minutes ago, Kamusha said:

It is clear that the Pentagon is taking this seriously...

 

Speaking as someone who works with the DoD and possesses a sufficiently high enough security clearance, I can all-but-assure you that the extent to which the DoD is taking this "seriously" is limited to doing the absolute bare minimum required by statute and/or regulation 

[best3444]

3 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

 

The chances of things (in my opinion, backed by science):

• single-celled life in many places all over the universe: 100%
• multi-cellular life in many places all over the universe: near-100%
• advanced life (think even insects) all over the universe: near-100%
• sapient life (similar to humans) all over the universe: >50% (but near-100% that it exists sporadically over time and space)
• sapient life being able to defeat the inverse-square law and communicate meaningfully (at least one two-way communication) with other stars: <10%
• sapient life being able to defeat time and travel sub-light to other stars: <5% (maybe some near the galactic cores, where stars are easier to get to...though conditions are less hospitable for life)
• sapient life being able to defeat physics and travel fast-than-light to other stars: near-0% (I would say 0%, but I grant the incredibly infinitesimal chance that our understanding of physics is completely wrong, and FTL is possible)

 

So while I do believe that there are likely thousands of "advanced" civilizations (similar to us) even in our own galaxy, I think the chance of any of them ever actually even communicating are close to 0. I'm sure it's happened somewhere at some time. And I'm sure that signals are heard more often, but never again.

 

I think it's entirely possible that no life from different star systems have ever visited each other, simply due to how strong the laws of physics are in preventing it. Most people simply can't grasp how impossible it is to even approach 1% the speed of light. To move an existing space capsule to 99%+ the speed of light, you'd need to burn something like Jupiter to get the energy (and also to slow back down). I think it's pretty likely that probes have been sent all over the place at sub-FTL to send back data.

 

Fantastic post. I agree with everything you said. 

[TUFKAK]

2 minutes ago, Kamusha said:

 

It's more in response to those dismissing the testimony of those who've reported these sightings. It is clear that the Pentagon is taking this seriously and there is something out there we can't full comprehend. Could be terrestrial or could not. But at this point we have to accept something is happening.

 

I’ll need way more than a “trust me bro” to take these claims seriously. 

 

 

 

[Kamusha]

I said my opinion. I just don't wanna participate in discussion if people are gonna assume I don't know what UFO stands for.

[legend]

Aliens capable of visiting earth today exist and are half-assed doing it in secrecy.

OR

The pilot didn't understand what they saw.

 

 

 

[LazyPiranha]

24 minutes ago, Kamusha said:

I said my opinion. I just don't wanna participate in discussion if people are gonna assume I don't know what UFO stands for.

I’m not being dismissive of other people’s opinions over minor semantics, I just think that UFO beliefs require the same scattershot mentality as most other conspiracy beliefs.  If you amass a bunch of data points, and assume all of them are of merit, then you believe you have a mountain of evidence, but once you consider the information as a whole, the entire thing falls apart.  
 

That’s why, generally speaking, the number of UFO sightings is more or less meaningless, and conversely makes them even less likely to aliens.  You want to tell me an unbelievably improbable thing has happened once, and I’ll go along with it, but dozens to hundreds of times?  No.  If you meet a person for the very first time and they tell you than they got struck by lightning and survived, you’ll probably just assume it’s true.  A small number of people get hit by lightning and some percent of those people live, so why not.  The same person says that they’ve been struck by lightning twice, and maybe you start to have doubts.  The same person says they’ve been struck by lightning once a month since junior high, and you’re going to assume it’s nonsense until you get some damn good proof otherwise.

 

The odds of any life or technology from another planet getting to earth are unbelievably bad.  Worse odds that you can conceive of.  Numbers don’t exist that an average person can even conceive of.  It would be like pickpocketing 52 total strangers and getting a single playing card from each of them that gets you an entire deck of cards in perfect new deck order, and they’re all from the exact same deck somehow, but somehow less probable than that.  I could maybe entertain briefly the idea that at one point in the billions of years of history of the earth that something sent intentionally from another distant planet came close or even touched the surface, but the idea that it’s happening dozens of times since I was born?  Not a chance in hell.  

[Kal-El814]

I believe people when they say they saw or experienced something. They probably did.

 

Any attempt to conclude what that might have been absent data, testing, independent verification, repeat results, etc., should not be taken seriously. Especially when those conclusions include things like aliens.

[ShreddieMercury]

Very understandable to be highly skeptical, but the lack of interest and complete dismissal in this thread for something that's by all appearances absolutely fascinating is so wild to me.  We have verifiably intelligent and by all accounts trustworthy government officials TALKING ABOUT UFO EVIDENCE PUBLICLY.  How is this not interesting and exciting?

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

It’s not interesting because UFO doesn’t mean alien, just unidentified 

[Kal-El814]

9 minutes ago, ShreddieMercury said:

Very understandable to be highly skeptical, but the lack of interest and complete dismissal in this thread for something that's by all appearances absolutely fascinating is so wild to me.  We have verifiably intelligent and by all accounts trustworthy government officials TALKING ABOUT UFO EVIDENCE PUBLICLY.  How is this not interesting and exciting?

 

The only way that what we're seeing is "interesting" is by seasoning the steak with a whole lotta baseless speculation.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

2 hours ago, ShreddieMercury said:

Very understandable to be highly skeptical, but the lack of interest and complete dismissal in this thread for something that's by all appearances absolutely fascinating is so wild to me.  We have verifiably intelligent and by all accounts trustworthy government officials TALKING ABOUT UFO EVIDENCE PUBLICLY.  How is this not interesting and exciting?

 

Apart from the pair of aviators who saw "something", the third witness (David Grusch) testified that he never directly saw any actual evidence of the non-terrestrial material that the DoD is allegedly concealing and that all the information he was relaying to the committee was provided by an unnamed party.

 

This amounts to little more than hearsay and is inadmissable as evidence in a court of law, but not in a congressional hearing.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Also, I work with DARPA so my standards of what constitutes "interesting" and "exciting" are probably just a bit skewed

[Kal-El814]

8 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Apart from the pair of aviators who saw "something", the third witness (David Grusch) testified that he never directly saw any actual evidence of the non-terrestrial material that the DoD is allegedly concealing and that all the information he was relaying to the committee was provided by an unnamed party.

 

This is called hearsay and is inadmissable as evidence in a court of law, but not in a congressional hearing.

 

Also maybe it's the entirety of my adult life being spent in / adjacent to clinical research trials, but... if every drug worked the way it MIGHT work and had the effects that SOME SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE reported, we'd be able to melt tumors with injections, we'd be able to manage our allergies with sublingual drops, depression would be easily managed, etc.

[TUFKAK]

The reason I’m utterly non plussed by this X-Files cosplay is it’s a waste of time. We have real world issues facing us and we’re wasting money on this trash. Good thing the seas aren’t boiling and Crimean war version 2 is settled so we can discuss this.

 

This entire event is based on two things, trust me bro and I don’t know therefore aliens. It deserves as much critical thought as when I hear about demonic possession. non at all.

Come to my er, I have a frequent flyer who comes in talking about sea-monsters who attack him in the presido. He saw it therefore I have to consider as possibly real by the metrics in this thread. Call a congressional inquiry because someone saw something!

 

we’re a silly country.

 

[Uaarkson]

5 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

The reason I’m utterly non plussed by this X-Files cosplay is it’s a waste of time. We have real world issues facing us and we’re wasting money on this trash. Good thing the seas aren’t boiling and Crimean war version 2 is settled so we can discuss this.

 

This entire event is based on two things, trust me bro and I don’t know therefore aliens. It deserves as much critical thought as when I hear about demonic possession. non at all.

Come to my er, I have a frequent flyer who comes in talking about sea-monsters who attack him in the presido. He saw it therefore I have to consider as possibly real by the metrics in this thread.

 

You don’t think it’s at least a little bit interesting that government officials are talking about objects whose capabilities exceed that of any presently known technology?

[TUFKAK]

Just now, Uaarkson said:

You don’t think it’s at least a little bit interesting that government officials are talking about objects whose capabilities exceed that of any presently known technology?

A congressperson talked about space lasers so not exactly a high bar.

 

If there’s a terrestrial threat I expect the DOD will have a viable solution for it because the only thing we as a nation do well is develop weapon systems.

[Kal-El814]

48 minutes ago, Uaarkson said:

You don’t think it’s at least a little bit interesting that government officials are talking about objects whose capabilities exceed that of any presently known technology?

 

That's not really what's happening here.

 

[Uaarkson]

17 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

That's not really what's happening here.

 

Objects flying at supersonic speeds with no thermal propulsion trail? Objects starting and stopping on a dime or making perfect 90 degree turns? Disappearing into the water? Flying out of view and then showing back up on radar 60 miles away? I’m not saying any of this actually happened or that it wasn’t some kind of sensor malfunction, but it is at least interesting.

[legend]

8 minutes ago, Uaarkson said:

Objects flying at supersonic speeds with no thermal propulsion trail? Objects starting and stopping on a dime or making perfect 90 degree turns? Disappearing into the water? Flying out of view and then showing back up on radar 60 miles away? I’m not saying any of this actually happened or that it wasn’t some kind of sensor malfunction, but it is at least interesting.

 

You're conflating interpretations with observations.

[Massdriver]

I mostly agree with the skeptics here, but I think there is another, slightly more probable type of alien object that hasn’t  been previously mentioned. It seems it is built in to some of your assertions that the alien object would have to break FTL travel. That’s not the case. An alien craft visiting earth would likely be a probe, probably one that has intelligent algorithms to fuel itself and self replicate. There would likely be no biological presence on board and such an object could  have been traveling for millions, possibly billions of years. Whoever built it could be dead. Sometimes we also forget how old the universe is, not just its size. 
 

This scenario seems more likely to me because we don’t have to assume FTL travel and we don’t have to assume little green people are making the long trip here. 
 

I don’t know what these pilots are seeing. They’re probably mistaken, but I’ll keep an open mind. I’ll need some real evidence for me to believe though. 
 

I didn’t watch the testimony, so maybe they did provide evidence. :P
 

 

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, legend said:

You're conflating interpretations with observations.

 

No you're an interpretation. 

 

 

[legend]

FWIW, I actively wish this were true. But the history of garbage "evidence" for these claims and my awareness of peoples general cognitive failings makes me disinclined to think this time they'll have something meaningful  

[TUFKAK]

We have peaked as a nation.

 

some people saw something they didn’t know and some people heard things others said.

 

Assemble Congress bitches we’re going on a deep dive looking for aliens!

 

tf 

 

I take it back, I want to hear about Hunters laptop again.

[Uaarkson]

17 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

We have peaked as a nation.

 

some people saw something they didn’t know and some people heard things others said.

 

Assemble Congress bitches we’re going on a deep dive looking for aliens!

 

tf 

 

I take it back, I want to hear about Hunters laptop again.

You’re a bummer dude!

[TUFKAK]

1 minute ago, Uaarkson said:

You’re a bummer dude!

 

25 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

 

 

 

 

[Kal-El814]

33 minutes ago, Uaarkson said:

Objects flying at supersonic speeds with no thermal propulsion trail? Objects starting and stopping on a dime or making perfect 90 degree turns? Disappearing into the water? Flying out of view and then showing back up on radar 60 miles away? I’m not saying any of this actually happened or that it wasn’t some kind of sensor malfunction, but it is at least interesting.

 

I believe that people believe they saw these things. That doesn't mean that's what they actually saw. "I saw something I can't explain." Cool, that may be interesting broadly and I absolutely believe that it's interesting to them. "I saw something that defies every every law of physics." Nope. I'm out.

 

Or...

 

25 minutes ago, legend said:

You're conflating interpretations with observations.

 

This.

[silentbob]

All I know is that it wasn’t just me and my mom who saw that things flying/floating on an odd angle in the sky that day. We still talk about it when discussions like these come up 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

34 minutes ago, legend said:

FWIW, I actively wish this were true.

 

Absolutely! 

 

I have no doubt that every single one of us who have expressed our skepticism of these particular events do genuinely wish that they did represent engagement with non-terrestrial intelligence.  Confirmation of such an event would more than likely have effects on practically every fundamental aspect of human existence -- science, philosophy, theology, art, etc. -- in ways that are unpredictable, exciting, and terrifying in equal measures.

 

But this isn't it, at least not yet.  I'm firmly convinced that our first engagement with a non-terrestrial intelligence won't be a near-miss with an F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, but it will be the detection of a faint, barely discernible electromagnetic pulse from somewhere in the cold darkness of the cosmos.

[Jason]

39 minutes ago, Uaarkson said:

You’re Obama dude!