General Gaming The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt - Next-Gen Update (PC/PS5/Xbox Series), update: "Patch 4.01: one step forward, one step back" (Digital Foundry)

[nublood]

I figured it out. Just had to go into the PS store, find the game and download the update from the game info tab. But yea, if you  already have any version of the game, the update is free. No need to purchase the Complete Edition. Sorry Best. lol

 

But NOW I’m noticing a difference. Buttery smooth man. Taking a look off of that balcony at the mountains and everything is a pretty big difference. I did notice my save files didn’t transfer. Hopefully I can get those back…

[Paperclyp]

9 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Yeah I'm pretty sure they tweaked the way he moved not too long after it was initially released. It still plays the same way but is less floaty I guess than when it initally came out? I haven't tried the upgrade yet so maybe they tweaked even more, but I always enjoyed the core combat loop.

 

I think they actually made it more floaty haha. It used to be more tanky and locked in to certain animations. And to me it feels even more so in the remaster - he feels a little too weightless to me but I think there are options to tweak that. 

[best3444]

4 minutes ago, nublood said:

I figured it out. Just had to go into the PS store, find the game and download the update from the game info tab. But yea, if you  already have any version of the game, the update is free. No need to purchase the Complete Edition. Sorry Best. lol

 

But NOW I’m noticing a difference. Buttery smooth man. Taking a look off of that balcony at the mountains and everything is a pretty big difference. I did notice my save files didn’t transfer. Hopefully I can get those back…

 

Yea, it is what it is. I got fucked but I'm not upset really. I'm going to keep playing this tomorrow and see how I feel. 

[stepee]

40 minutes ago, legend said:

 

Oh. Well nevermind then. I thought I heard the console performance was solid, but maybe that was with RT off  

 

Yeah the performance mode is indeed very nice for consoles! The 30fps RT mode instead of also being higher res like a lot of games is actually lower res. Like looks like 1080p or something low. And it feels like it’s either not holding 30fps or there is a frame pacing issue. And you don’t even get the full ray tracing suite in return for that! It’s really not great, I would have just skipped it.

[best3444]

I'm going to go back into this tonight with my expectations a bit lower. The combat REALLY took me by surprise but I'm willing to deal with it because it does so many other things so good. Geralt is great.

[best3444]

I just read this in a new review. The camera might be my issue with combat to some degree.

 

"You can now choose an over-the-shoulder camera view when on foot and riding. While this lets you appreciate the fine texture work on Geralt’s armor, it didn’t feel quite right in combat and removes a lot of spatial awareness. Riding with the close-up view also felt clumsy, so I quickly reverted to the old zoomed-out camera.

Returning to the game after so long (and after spending countless hours spent in Elden Ring) also underlined that The Witcher 3‘s combat isn’t its strongest suit. There’s a slight clumsiness to both attacking and using items and magic, which makes bigger fights feel more chaotic than they should."

 

I will zoom the camera out but I'm not the only one dissaipointed in the overall combat. 

[Paperclyp]

1 hour ago, best3444 said:

I just read this in a new review. The camera might be my issue with combat to some degree.

 

"You can now choose an over-the-shoulder camera view when on foot and riding. While this lets you appreciate the fine texture work on Geralt’s armor, it didn’t feel quite right in combat and removes a lot of spatial awareness. Riding with the close-up view also felt clumsy, so I quickly reverted to the old zoomed-out camera.

Returning to the game after so long (and after spending countless hours spent in Elden Ring) also underlined that The Witcher 3‘s combat isn’t its strongest suit. There’s a slight clumsiness to both attacking and using items and magic, which makes bigger fights feel more chaotic than they should."

 

I will zoom the camera out but I'm not the only one dissaipointed in the overall combat. 

The combat has been a little polarizing since the initial release of the game, as we’ve kind of re-litigated here. Personally I think it’s less interesting than some people will have you believe, even with the planning / strategy aspect, but it’s just fine at the same time. It’s not bad. And again the other stuff the game has going for it so much overshadows any issues you might have with the combat that it’s really a non-issue. 
 

Few games of this ambition have the chops to tell stories like this. 

[best3444]

1 hour ago, Paperclyp said:

The combat has been a little polarizing since the initial release of the game, as we’ve kind of re-litigated here. Personally I think it’s less interesting than some people will have you believe, even with the planning / strategy aspect, but it’s just fine at the same time. It’s not bad. And again the other stuff the game has going for it so much overshadows any issues you might have with the combat that it’s really a non-issue. 
 

Few games of this ambition have the chops to tell stories like this. 

 

Yep. That's why I'm sticking with it.

[Kal-El814]

2 hours ago, Paperclyp said:

The combat has been a little polarizing since the initial release of the game, as we’ve kind of re-litigated here. Personally I think it’s less interesting than some people will have you believe, even with the planning / strategy aspect, but it’s just fine at the same time. It’s not bad. And again the other stuff the game has going for it so much overshadows any issues you might have with the combat that it’s really a non-issue. 
 

Few games of this ambition have the chops to tell stories like this. 

 

Yeah, agreed. Similar to God of War Ragnarok, my main complaint with Wild Hunt is that there’s more stuff and content than there is gameplay, if that makes sense. I’ve picked up 1,000 of the same gambeson with slightly different stats, 2,000 clubs I will never ever use, so much clutter, etc. Ubisoft rightly gets criticized for its open worlds having just so much shit puked onto the map and Wild Hunt does that A LOT.

 

I think the smartest thing Wild Hunt does, and I won’t be spoilery here given that some people ITT seem to have not finished, is not beat you over the head with what choices impact the ending, which choices are, “good,” etc. It makes the stories compelling to chase and finish and makes it more challenging to meta game if you’re going through without following a wiki.

 

I should play it again

[Paperclyp]

26 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Yeah, agreed. Similar to God of War Ragnarok, my main complaint with Wild Hunt is that there’s more stuff and content than there is gameplay, if that makes sense. I’ve picked up 1,000 of the same gambeson with slightly different stats, 2,000 clubs I will never ever use, so much clutter, etc. Ubisoft rightly gets criticized for its open worlds having just so much shit puked onto the map and Wild Hunt does that A LOT.

 

I think the smartest thing Wild Hunt does, and I won’t be spoilery here given that some people ITT seem to have not finished, is not beat you over the head with what choices impact the ending, which choices are, “good,” etc. It makes the stories compelling to chase and finish and makes it more challenging to meta game if you’re going through without following a wiki.

 

I should play it again

That last part is a great point. I am tempted in many games to just look up the binary effect of my choice before I make it, but the witcher is maybe the one game where I role play more than any other - which is weird considering Geralt is an actual character and not your avatar. 

 

Like early on you can try to save this woman with your witcher potion but he’s like it might save her and it might make her feel more pain than you can possibly imagine. And another thing is that the results aren’t instant. It encourages you to come back to the same area later to see what happened. 
 

Love it. 

[skillzdadirecta]

5 hours ago, best3444 said:

I'm going to go back into this tonight with my expectations a bit lower. The combat REALLY took me by surprise but I'm willing to deal with it because it does so many other things so good. Geralt is great.

Is this your first time playing through it? Forgive me if you said it earlier in the topic.

[best3444]

1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Is this your first time playing through it? Forgive me if you said it earlier in the topic.

 

No. I played and beat it once in 2015. I barely remember anything but it's amazing how some dialogue I hear comes back to me. 

[best3444]

I can't get passed how much the game has aged mechanically. Visuals are fine but the gameplay is just not fun for me. I played an other hour this evening and wasn't having fun. The combat is garbage imo. There's no getting around it. Geralt is extremely stiff and it's just not working out for me. Maybe during the summer or something I'll revisit it.

 

I jumped back onto my current save of Ragnarok and it just spoiled me with combat and control. Even Elden Ring I played then and it just feels so much fuckin better than playing the Witcher 3. So I'm continuing my journey in Elden Ring and my second playthrough of Ragnarok. These games are just incredible and ruined gaming for me.  😄 

[best3444]

On 12/15/2022 at 12:53 AM, jaethos said:

Check out these videos for the settings you want to use for Series X and PS5 with an LG OLED. 

 

 

 

I just realized why all these options look different. I own a LG OLED C2 not 1. So this didn’t help me. The options are way different. 

[AlwaysDyingX]

It looks like Fortnite now. Its a shame it doesn't play as well as FN though 

[best3444]

38 minutes ago, BasemntDweller2 said:

Its a shame it doesn't play as well as FN though 

 

lol, true. Gameplay is garbage. Riding the horse is a chore now. It's aged and is pretty damn overrated, too. I honestly don't see how these reviews are so good. Must be nostalgia. I'm not trying to be an ass but I'm just really confused.

[jaethos]

1 hour ago, best3444 said:

 

I just realized why all these options look different. I own a LG OLED C2 not 1. So this didn’t help me. The options are way different. 

The settings may look slightly different, maybe have been moved around, but they are still the same. You can also try this article which specifically talks about the C2.

LG C2 OLED Calibration Settings - RTINGS.com

WWW.RTINGS.COM

 

[best3444]

4 minutes ago, jaethos said:

The settings may look slightly different, maybe have been moved around, but they are still the same. You can also try this article which specifically talks about the C2.

LG C2 OLED Calibration Settings - RTINGS.com

WWW.RTINGS.COM

 

 

Jesus, thanks so much! You're really looking out and I appreciate it.

[best3444]

22 hours ago, jaethos said:

The settings may look slightly different, maybe have been moved around, but they are still the same. You can also try this article which specifically talks about the C2.

LG C2 OLED Calibration Settings - RTINGS.com

WWW.RTINGS.COM

 

 

Lol, I own a LG OLED C9! I'm on YouTube figuring out settings now.

[best3444]

I did absolutely everything. Tried YouTube vids and matched settings that have on my PS5 input etc. The PS5 just looks flat out better. I did make a very small improvement on the visuals on my XSX but it still looks washed out compared to my PS5.

 

[crispy4000]

 

[legend]

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

 

 

Sounds like the biggest issues are:

1. The game is not well optimized for multiple threads, but is heavily CPU bound with ray tracing. In contrast, Cyberpunk which was developed for ray tracing, is much better at using all your cores.

2. DX12 sucks for no good reason, but is also the only way to get RTX.

3. Shader compilation is the bane of the gaming world.

[stepee]

1 hour ago, legend said:

 

Sounds like the biggest issues are:

1. The game is not well optimized for multiple threads, but is heavily CPU bound with ray tracing. In contrast, Cyberpunk which was developed for ray tracing, is much better at using all your cores.

2. DX12 sucks for no good reason, but is also the only way to get RTX.

3. Shader compilation is the bane of the gaming world.

 

While in this case it could have been fixed with better cpu optimization (i’m guessing this would have been a lot more work with it being tacked on to an older game here) it still goes to show how important the cpu is again in the age of ray tracing, after being mostly an afterthought the past decade or so.

 

We’ve seen it from several games this year like Calisto Protocol and Gotham Knights, where even the best cpu out there can’t hold 60fps. The CPU is now the biggest bottleneck for progress with ray tracing.

 

The main takeaway is that better optimization is needed, this had it tacked on to an old Dx11 game and that’s why CDPR probably struggles here, but that isn’t the excuse for some other games. And probably not the best excuse here either but it’s a free update so I get it. It seems to me when viewing something like Spider-man post updates, that you indeed are able to program so the ray tracing functions are not on the same threads as the rest of your game. Developers need to pay attention to optimization now and can no longer rely on the brute force of desktop cpus vs the old jaguar ones from last gen consoles. 
 

As more games come out that DO actually optimize right, the more games like Calisto will get slammed for their poor performance. I think it’s something that has to be thought about early on though. I don’t think it’s something they will bother to fix in that game as they would have to reprogram so much.

 

The bright side right now is that there is magic button (the technical term for dlss3 frame generation) here to save the day. They mention the input latency is the same as native here, and from playing it, it indeed just feels like I’m flying around with a great frame rate with all the bells and whistles on.

 

But as I’ve talked about before, we are in early stages, the demand is going to ramp up, and the 2x cpu bump from dlss fg is just enough for right now. The only option moving forward to not let cpu hold the tech back is to optimize to spread operations around more on the cpu AND combine that with a hopefully standardized FG that is on everything from low to high end.

 

And on top of that, we are all still going to be needing to upgrade our cpus to keep up.

 

edit: As for this game it looks fucking amazing and runs great on a 4090 so fuck y’all got mine suckkkkaz

[legend]

2 hours ago, stepee said:

 

While in this case it could have been fixed with better cpu optimization (i’m guessing this would have been a lot more work with it being tacked on to an older game here) it still goes to show how important the cpu is again in the age of ray tracing, after being mostly an afterthought the past decade or so.

 

We’ve seen it from several games this year like Calisto Protocol and Gotham Knights, where even the best cpu out there can’t hold 60fps. The CPU is now the biggest bottleneck for progress with ray tracing.

 

The main takeaway is that better optimization is needed, this had it tacked on to an old Dx11 game and that’s why CDPR probably struggles here, but that isn’t the excuse for some other games. And probably not the best excuse here either but it’s a free update so I get it. It seems to me when viewing something like Spider-man post updates, that you indeed are able to program so the ray tracing functions are not on the same threads as the rest of your game. Developers need to pay attention to optimization now and can no longer rely on the brute force of desktop cpus vs the old jaguar ones from last gen consoles. 
 

As more games come out that DO actually optimize right, the more games like Calisto will get slammed for their poor performance. I think it’s something that has to be thought about early on though. I don’t think it’s something they will bother to fix in that game as they would have to reprogram so much.

 

The bright side right now is that there is magic button (the technical term for dlss3 frame generation) here to save the day. They mention the input latency is the same as native here, and from playing it, it indeed just feels like I’m flying around with a great frame rate with all the bells and whistles on.

 

But as I’ve talked about before, we are in early stages, the demand is going to ramp up, and the 2x cpu bump from dlss fg is just enough for right now. The only option moving forward to not let cpu hold the tech back is to optimize to spread operations around more on the cpu AND combine that with a hopefully standardized FG that is on everything from low to high end.

 

And on top of that, we are all still going to be needing to upgrade our cpus to keep up.

 

edit: As for this game it looks fucking amazing and runs great on a 4090 so fuck y’all got mine suckkkkaz

 

 

Oh yeah, I can absolutely imagine how it would be hard to tack on good thread utilization for ray tracing. When I built my current computer, I opted for the 3900x because it has very strong multi-threading performance and I knew that would be important for ray tracing that would be increasingly popular.

 

And it seems that was true, but in this case, it's not helping me because the game was not designed to make use of it  

[stepee]

2 minutes ago, legend said:

 

 

Oh yeah, I can absolutely imagine how it would be hard to tack on good thread utilization for ray tracing. When I built my current computer, I opted for the 3900x because it has very strong multi-threading performance and I knew that would be important for ray tracing that would be increasingly popular.

 

And it seems that was true, but in this case, it's not helping me because the game was not designed to make use of it  

 

I think developers got complacent with not needing to optimize to pc cpus at all. I haven’t ran the actual math but my theory is that core for core desktop cpus were so much more powerful than the jaguar cpus, optimization wasn’t needed to just brute force the 30fps console games to 60-144fps because each core was that much more powerful.

 

Then with the increased cpu performance of the new consoles, that is no longer the case and devs are still designing ray tracing in games with the idea of it running at 30fps on console, so they are optimizing RT just enough so that consoles can hit that. Then when it comes to pc, the cpu is utilized the same way but core for core we aren’t far enough away from the consoles to brute force past and double/quadruple the cpu performance. Or something.

[legend]

1 hour ago, stepee said:

 

I think developers got complacent with not needing to optimize to pc cpus at all. I haven’t ran the actual math but my theory is that core for core desktop cpus were so much more powerful than the jaguar cpus, optimization wasn’t needed to just brute force the 30fps console games to 60-144fps because each core was that much more powerful.

 

Then with the increased cpu performance of the new consoles, that is no longer the case and devs are still designing ray tracing in games with the idea of it running at 30fps on console, so they are optimizing RT just enough so that consoles can hit that. Then when it comes to pc, the cpu is utilized the same way but core for core we aren’t far enough away from the consoles to brute force past and double/quadruple the cpu performance. Or something.

 

 

I suspect console games including ray tracing are probably making better use of the CPUs and will translate better to PC as a result. According to that DF video, Spider-man PC had much better CPU utilization, for example. That doesn't mean the same was true on the PS build, but seems plausible and ray tracing would certainly be a forcing function for that.

 

I think the Witcher was just fucked because it was built before ray tracing was a thing to think about, and to your point, games back then didn't care as much about CPU utilization and now we're paying the cost. We'll I am, at least. Maybe people like you with fancy frame generation are fine  

[stepee]

2 minutes ago, legend said:

 

 

I suspect console games including ray tracing are probably making better use of the CPUs and will translate better to PC as a result. According to that DF video, Spider-man PC had much better CPU utilization, for example. That doesn't mean the same was true on the PS build, but seems plausible and ray tracing would certainly be a forcing function for that.

 

I think the Witcher was just fucked because it was built before ray tracing was a thing to think about, and to your point, games back then didn't care as much about CPU utilization and now we're paying the cost. We'll I am, at least. Maybe people like you with fancy frame generation are fine  

 

I think it’ll depend! Spider-man makes sense (and they improved this since launch) because it has a 60fps ray tracing mode on ps5. Calisto and Batman which both have awful cpu utilization with ray tracing only have 30fps RT modes on console. Not that they couldn’t have still programmed the RT to use more threads, but they sure as hell didn’t!

 

[legend]

1 hour ago, stepee said:

 

I think it’ll depend! Spider-man makes sense (and they improved this since launch) because it has a 60fps ray tracing mode on ps5. Calisto and Batman which both have awful cpu utilization with ray tracing only have 30fps RT modes on console. Not that they couldn’t have still programmed the RT to use more threads, but they sure as hell didn’t!

 

 

For some reason I didn't think CP had ray tracing. But given what we heard about crunch, I wouldn't be surprised if it was kind of tacked on despite being "built" for it  

[stepee]

Just now, legend said:

 

For some reason I didn't think CP had ray tracing. But given what we heard about crunch, I wouldn't be surprised if it was kind of tacked on despite being "built" for it  

 

It’s really impressive RT as well, the game looks amazing, it definitely has that going for it.

[Keyser_Soze]

4 hours ago, legend said:

For some reason I didn't think CP had ray tracing. But given what we heard about crunch, I wouldn't be surprised if it was kind of tacked on despite being "built" for it  

 

Kind of as you surmised earlier about Witcher being made for old consoles Callisto Protocol also had last gen versions (that don't have RT) so maybe they built for that and put the shiny things on top for current gen consoles. But s Stepee mentioned Gotham Knights has no excuse since they made it next gen only. I guess if you think about it maybe they built the ground architecture for old consoles but prettied it up (not very much) for current gen.

[crispy4000]

 

[best3444]

14 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

 

Too lazy to watch. What's the consensus?

[crispy4000]

17 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

Too lazy to watch. What's the consensus?

 

RT mode is kind of underwhelming.  PS5 doesn't maintain 30fps well in combat, Series X struggles less, but still in stress points like towns.  Plus input lag is an issue.

 

PS5 has better draw distance in both Performance and RT modes.  It also has the advantage in Performance mode due to better dynamic resolution scaling leading to a more consistent 60fps.  Series X has higher resolution on average but less framerate consistency.

 

New patch is incoming, things could change, and CD said they will update PS5's RT mode.  Game crashes now and again.

[stepee]

2 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

Too lazy to watch. What's the consensus?

 

It has frame rates issues. Apparently a patch coming should hopefully improve it.

 

PS5 has more consistent frame rate in cities in performance mode but worse frame rate everywhere else including combat and an overall lower internal res.

 

In ray tracing mode, ps5 also has a lower frame rate everywhere, regularly 25fps, while XSX mostly holds 30 besides in cities.

 

In both modes ps5 has better foilage/shadow draw distance.

 

PS5 will stutter with frame drops, XSX will screen tear. 

[best3444]

As much as I'm disappointed with this game it looked and ran pretty damn good in the performance mode. 

 

Thanks guys for the summary.