Television Dave Chappelle gets cancelled into four more Netflix specials

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

I also don't find Mitch Hedberg particularly "funny".

 

Intelligent, witty, and insightful?  Unquestionably!

 

But actually funny?  Not really -- and that's to his credit!

 

[best3444]

31 minutes ago, Chris- said:

lmao I assure you he has not

 

I must be confusing him with somebody else. 

[Kamusha]

Just out of the top my head other comedians who aren't mean-spirited:

 

Steven Wright - huge influence on Hedberg

Brian Regan

Jim Gaffigan

John Mulaney

Pete Holmes

Mike Birbiglia

 

I personally try to avoid being mean in the jokes that I write but I can be a bit self-deprecating.

 

[SaysWho?]

Just now, Komusha said:

Just out of the top my head other comedians who aren't mean-spirited:

 

Steven Wright - huge influence on Hedberg

Brian Regan

Jim Gaffigan

John Mulaney

Pete Holmes

Mike Birbiglia

 

I personally try to avoid being mean in the jokes that I write but I can be a bit self-deprecating.

 

 

Dmitri Martin as well, who reminded m of Hedberg.

 

"If I saw an amputee being hanged, I'd start calling out letters."

[Kamusha]

10 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

I also don't find Mitch Hedberg particularly "funny".

 

Intelligent, witty, and insightful?  Unquestionably!

 

But actually funny?  Not really -- and that's to his credit!

 

 

He was a talented joke writer but he wasn't that great of a performer, objectively speaking. He enormous stage fright and basically had no presence on stage. It was even common for him to tell all his jokes with his back to the audience.

[SaysWho?]

2 minutes ago, Komusha said:

 

He was a talented joke writer but he wasn't that great of a performer, objectively speaking. He enormous stage fright and basically had no presence on stage. It was even common for him to tell all his jokes with his back to the audience.

 

But that WAS what was so enjoyable about his presentation. 

[best3444]

Was he around for a long time?

[Keyser_Soze]

4 hours ago, best3444 said:

Was he around for a long time?

 

He died at the age of 37 in 2005. So maybe like 9 or 10 years (professionally speaking)

[Kamusha]

10 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

But that WAS what was so enjoyable about his presentation. 

It would be one thing if he played into a socially awkward persona on stage the way some other naturally awkward comics do, but when I watch it it’s obviously not an act. It’s just a nervous person having a hard time being on stage. As someone who has had to conquer social anxiety to become more comfortable on stage, I just find it hard to watch. I think it speaks to the strength of his material that he made it as far as he did without a polished stage presence.

[Kamusha]

On 2/21/2022 at 12:42 AM, Iculus said:

the entire point of the rant that landed him here was a defense of a trans woman who was bullied to the point that she killed herself. she was bullied by fucking trans people. she opened for him. he loved her, and lost a close friend. I don't agree with the way that he handled the situation. people lash out when they are angry. 

You should look into this more because Chapelle totally lied about how close the two of them were. And yet presents to have a good understanding as to why why she killed herself despite them not being very close. He didn’t show up to her funeral and avoided contacting friends and family for months and months. He basically exaggerated their friendship so that he could use her as an excuse to make trans jokes. “But how can I be transphobic if I have trans friends?” Heads up, if he’s willing misgendering her on stage after her death then he’s a shitty friend.

 

This is what I despise about Dave Chapelle. His material on stage bothers me less than the fact that he’s exploiting a trans comic’s death for his own benefit. I’ll link to the Facebook post that the comic’s good friend and roommate made about Chapelle.

 

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[Iculus]

41 minutes ago, Komusha said:

You should look into this more because Chapelle totally lied about how close the two of them were. And yet presents to have a good understanding as to why why she killed herself despite them not being very close. He didn’t show up to her funeral and avoided contacting friends and family for months and months. He basically exaggerated their friendship so that he could use her as an excuse to make trans jokes. “But how can I be transphobic if I have trans friends?” Heads up, if he’s willing misgendering her on stage after her death then he’s a shitty friend.

 

This is what I despise about Dave Chapelle. His material on stage bothers me less than the fact that he’s exploiting a trans comic’s death for his own benefit. I’ll link to the Facebook post that the comic’s good friend and roommate made about Chapelle.

 

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I will

[SaysWho?]

7 hours ago, Komusha said:

It would be one thing if he played into a socially awkward persona on stage the way some other naturally awkward comics do, but when I watch it it’s obviously not an act. It’s just a nervous person having a hard time being on stage. As someone who has had to conquer social anxiety to become more comfortable on stage, I just find it hard to watch. I think it speaks to the strength of his material that he made it as far as he did without a polished stage presence.

 

The nervousness was funny though. It's his personality, and it shines through. It also leads to some hysterical moments when a joke bombs. 

 

"Tomatoes are a universal sign that you don't like something. When I'm at Subway, I ask the person to put tomatoes on my sub because I don't like the way they're making it. All right! I don't know what that meant there. That was ad libbed. I take it back."

[Guest]

I agree, Mitch certainly used his anxious stage presence as part of his performance. It for me is all part of the package!

[Kamusha]

You may like how he performed, but no comic with a decent amount of experience is gonna say he had a great stage presence. Passable? Maybe, but I wouldn't call it great. If you have excellent stage presence you can get away with subpar material. I've seen some comics kill with barely any jokes. Hedberg's approach is obviously material-focused. Would his act work without his material? I don't think it would.

 

This isn't a criticism, it's just an observation from a comic. I definitely have a lot of respect and he was an early influence of mine.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Komusha said:

You may like how he performed, but no comic with a decent amount of experience is gonna say he had a great stage presence. Passable? Maybe, but I wouldn't call it great. If you have excellent stage presence you can get away with subpar material. I've seen some comics kill with barely any jokes. Hedberg's approach is obviously material-focused. Would his act work without his material? I don't think it would.

 

This isn't a criticism, it's just an observation from a comic. I definitely have a lot of respect and he was an early influence of mine.

I don’t think his material works without his anxious vibe. Part of why he was so funny was the sort of stream of consciousness feeling of his sets, and him fidgeting around, often not looking out to the crowd, it all fits together. I would go so far as to say his material would be worse with a more polished and self assured stage presence. There is something really endearing about Mitch’s performances, and the awkward timing of his jokes heightened the laughs for me.

[SaysWho?]

16 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

I don’t think his material works without his anxious vibe. Part of why he was so funny was the sort of stream of consciousness feeling of his sets, and him fidgeting around, often not looking out to the crowd, it all fits together. I would go so far as to say his material would be worse with a more polished and self assured stage presence. There is something really endearing about Mitch’s performances, and the awkward timing of his jokes heightened the laughs for me.

I agree with this because we’ve all heard people tell his jokes. We all suck in comparison.

[Iculus]

14 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

I don’t think his material works without his anxious vibe. Part of why he was so funny was the sort of stream of consciousness feeling of his sets, and him fidgeting around, often not looking out to the crowd, it all fits together. I would go so far as to say his material would be worse with a more polished and self assured stage presence. There is something really endearing about Mitch’s performances, and the awkward timing of his jokes heightened the laughs for me.

I think I agree with this. If Seinfeld did a Mitch set I'm not sure if it would even be funny. Seinfeld's uptalk really fucking drives me crazy though, so it could just be personal bias.

[SaysWho?]

Like obviously you can feel a Carlin or Lewis Black presence in a grand way. They command the stage. Black has theater experience on top of everything.

 

But imo Hedberg’s nervousness and tone, sounding like he was reading off paper, sounds funny in a way that’s hard to replicate. He just is funny with the lack of polish.

[Guest]

It really is hard to explain exactly what works about Mitch for those of us who love him. He feels like he is constantly teetering on the brink of bombing and it makes me nervous too 😂

[Kamusha]

It’s okay if you think his schtick works. But what I said is that a comic who is unable to face the audience when he performs is technically a bad performer, and yet this is somehow a controversial take? I’m seriously scratching my head right now. It’s not like I said he’s unfunny, because he is. Just made the most basic of observation.
 

Maybe it’s because I’m coming from this as a performer and not as fan so I have different things I’m looking out for. I think it’s okay to make note of the shortcomings of comics I like. There are comics who I love who are good with their material but are bad with crowd work, and vice versa. But I won’t list them because I don’t want to anger any fans lol

[Kamusha]

3 hours ago, Iculus said:

I think I agree with this. If Seinfeld did a Mitch set I'm not sure if it would even be funny. Seinfeld's uptalk really fucking drives me crazy though, so it could just be personal bias.

Todd Glass does a good impression of Rodney Dangerfield telling Hedberg jokes. It’s always interesting me how that material would sound coming from someone else with a distinctive voice.

 

 

[Kamusha]

3 hours ago, sblfilms said:

It really is hard to explain exactly what works about Mitch for those of us who love him. He feels like he is constantly teetering on the brink of bombing and it makes me nervous too 😂

Considering he had such anxiety that he would self medicate to the point of overdosing, maybe this is an aspect of his act I have a harder time finding entertainment in as I grow older. Maybe it hits too close to home, I dunno. It’s just too real for me to watch. I like listening to him though.

[Iculus]

3 minutes ago, Komusha said:

Todd Glass does a good impression of Rodney Dangerfield telling Hedberg jokes. It’s always interesting me how that material would sound coming from someone else with a distinctive voice.

 

it doesn't work the same for me... his Dangerfield is also terrible in this clip. 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Komusha said:

It’s okay if you think his schtick works. But what I said is that a comic who is unable to face the audience when he performs is technically a bad performer, and yet this is somehow a controversial take? I’m seriously scratching my head right now. It’s not like I said he’s unfunny, because he is. Just made the most basic of observation.

I’m saying I don’t care if he is *technically* good or whatever you are looking at from the perspective of a performer yourself, I’m saying that his stage presence is part of what makes his comedy work. His jokes are intrinsically tied to how he presents himself on stage! 
 

Nobody is disagreeing that he is an awkward performer  

[Iculus]

how do people feel about Andrew Schultz? all of his super wild shit is interacting with audiences. 

[Kamusha]

2 hours ago, sblfilms said:

I’m saying I don’t care if he is *technically* good or whatever you are looking at from the perspective of a performer yourself, I’m saying that his stage presence is part of what makes his comedy work. His jokes are intrinsically tied to how he presents himself on stage! 
 

Nobody is disagreeing that he is an awkward performer  

Okay, I see where you’re coming from. I do agree that his material is tied to him as a performer. It’s very much written in his own voice, which isn’t an easy thing to do for a comedy writer.

[SaysWho?]

12 hours ago, Komusha said:

Okay, I see where you’re coming from. I do agree that his material is tied to him as a performer. It’s very much written in his own voice, which isn’t an easy thing to do for a comedy writer.

 

That's why I mentioned Carlin and Black; for me, they have a grand presence on the stage, especially since Black comes from a theater background, so I get the idea of stage presence and a performer who uses the space. But Mitch jokes are great and are best told by Mitch or written down so I can hear it in his voice and looking down demeanor because that's when it's funniest to me.  Give that stuff to Deon Cole and I don't know if it'll work the same even though Cole's hysterical.

 

Maybe a good comparison for my tastes: Seinfeld is a great sit-com, but you can definitely tell Jason Alexander is one of the strongest actors. Jerry is fucking funny because he's just naturally funny. He apparently can't act, but if he's himself, that's a good "act" in itself. However, ask me who the strongest actors are, and I'd say the other three. But Jerry's specific personality works so well as a foil to the others, so his comedy works because he works and it's part of the charm of the show.

[SaysWho?]

Oh shit, that's a good one: sblfilms, if you want someone not mean, do Deon Cole. Just found out about him last year when my gf and I watched his 2016 special, and he was so damned good. Guy used to write for Conan for a few years, as well.

[SaysWho?]

Also, true story: I used to work with a guy named Tucker who has a twin brother named Todd. So you can bet they've seen this:

 

 

[number305]

18 hours ago, Komusha said:

It’s okay if you think his schtick works. But what I said is that a comic who is unable to face the audience when he performs is technically a bad performer, and yet this is somehow a controversial take? I’m seriously scratching my head right now. It’s not like I said he’s unfunny, because he is. Just made the most basic of observation.
 

Maybe it’s because I’m coming from this as a performer and not as fan so I have different things I’m looking out for. I think it’s okay to make note of the shortcomings of comics I like. There are comics who I love who are good with their material but are bad with crowd work, and vice versa. But I won’t list them because I don’t want to anger any fans lol

 

I think that there are definite times where breaking all the rules works for certain individuals and can even propel them to higher greatness.  As an example you would think spelling and sentence structure would be important for a author - but Cormac McCarthy has turned that around in many of his novels.  Hedberg is great because he breaks the rules.  It would not be a good template for others to try to follow because he was a genius.  

[Fizzzzle]

I decided to dabble in stand up a few years ago and eventually made a five minute act. I couldn't do it now, it was basically a bucket list thing I wanted to do, and I worked closely with comics I knew to refine it for literally months to get it down. The first time I performed it I kind of bombed. The anxiety was crazy. I got the nerves out of the way, though, and I fucking killed it the second time I performed it. It was basically a long running story about a time I almost got into a fight with a homeless person over a lighter with other jokes sprinkled throughout. And then I was like "yeah I'm good" and never did comedy again.

 

The experience gave me a lot of respect for comics. I can't even imagine the work that goes into a 30 minute set, let alone an hour or longer. @Komusha

[Kamusha]

On 2/24/2022 at 5:30 PM, Fizzzzle said:

I decided to dabble in stand up a few years ago and eventually made a five minute act. I couldn't do it now, it was basically a bucket list thing I wanted to do, and I worked closely with comics I knew to refine it for literally months to get it down. The first time I performed it I kind of bombed. The anxiety was crazy. I got the nerves out of the way, though, and I fucking killed it the second time I performed it. It was basically a long running story about a time I almost got into a fight with a homeless person over a lighter with other jokes sprinkled throughout. And then I was like "yeah I'm good" and never did comedy again.

 

The experience gave me a lot of respect for comics. I can't even imagine the work that goes into a 30 minute set, let alone an hour or longer. @Komusha

 

Thank you for this post, it's truly much harder than it looks. Before I set a single foot on a stage I couldn't have comprehended just how much work goes into standup. Good comics make it look so easy and natural, but there is nothing natural at all about getting in front of an audience of strangers and trying to make them laugh. I think there are some funny people who assume standup isn't that hard just because they can make their friends laugh, but it so, so different.

 

Writing material is hard too. Even crafting a tight five (five minutes of a comedian's best material, distilled in a quick five minutes with no laugh and 6-8 good laughs per minute) takes years before it is something you even want to send out to clubs and promoters. Honestly I have a lot of respect for professional even comics I don't personally find funny just because I know how much hard it takes to get to that point. Comedy may be subjective, but the work that goes into it is completely measurable and you can always tell who has put in the hard work to get to that point.

[Jason]

 

[Kamusha]

On 2/24/2022 at 8:08 AM, SaysWho? said:

 

That's why I mentioned Carlin and Black; for me, they have a grand presence on the stage, especially since Black comes from a theater background, so I get the idea of stage presence and a performer who uses the space. But Mitch jokes are great and are best told by Mitch or written down so I can hear it in his voice and looking down demeanor because that's when it's funniest to me.  Give that stuff to Deon Cole and I don't know if it'll work the same even though Cole's hysterical.

 

Maybe a good comparison for my tastes: Seinfeld is a great sit-com, but you can definitely tell Jason Alexander is one of the strongest actors. Jerry is fucking funny because he's just naturally funny. He apparently can't act, but if he's himself, that's a good "act" in itself. However, ask me who the strongest actors are, and I'd say the other three. But Jerry's specific personality works so well as a foil to the others, so his comedy works because he works and it's part of the charm of the show.

 

I meant to respond to this but I kept forgetting. I should clarify and say that stage presence doesn't necessarily mean theatrics. You can be understated and still control the stage. Obviously not a good person, but Bill Cosby was really good at this back in the day. Dude could perform an entire set from sitting on a stool and could have the audience hanging on his every word.

 

But I would like to revise what I said earlier. It is unfair to say Hedberg was a bad performer, but rather that his presentation was surprisingly unpolished for someone at his level. Or it came across as unpolished. Never mean to use that as a negative, just think it really speaks to how strong his material was that he was able to make it work for him. I mean dude has been dead nearly two decades and people still quote his jokes. That's power.

[Kamusha]

Also, not to bum anyone out, but if George Carlin was still alive today he would totally be one of the more outspoken voices against cancel culture. His You are All Diseased special has... not aged well.