Movies Ridley Scott hops on Martin Scorcese's superhero hate train

[SuperSpreader]

 

@GeneticBlueprint

[GeneticBlueprint]

10 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Pretty sure he meant me, you and a few others. It's cool.

 

He's entitled to his opinion about these movies, it's just ironic when he's been accused of the SAME EXACT THING. and the nasty way he did it makes him sound like a cranky old granpa...

 

@SimpleG already posted Pauline Kael's review of Alien at the time of release, Here's Roger Ebert's review of Blade Runner

 

Blade Runner movie review & film summary (1982) | Roger Ebert

WWW.ROGEREBERT.COM

---

The strangest thing about the future is that this is now the future we once foretold. Twenty years ago, we thought of "now" as "the year 1982," and we wondered what life would be like. Little could we...

 

Ebert LITERALLY calls out Scott for doing what he accuses the Superhero filmmakers of doing

 

 

I mean that's essentially what Scott is saying about the genre he despises and I think both takes are wrong. I think just as Ebert was to high minded for Blade Runner and Kael was too high minded for Alien, Scott is too high minded for these films. The difference with him is that some of his rancor may be rooted in straight up bitterness because he may feel like the industry and audience has passed him by. I mean, Gladiator 2? Really? Have you guys ever heard his pitch for Gladiator 2 involving Maximus becoming basically Kratos from God of War and ping ponging through history??? Again I love Scott (was a bigger fan of his brother Tony tbh) but at least Scorcese has more of a leg to stand on in calling out these films because he's almost never done a popcorn flick unlike Scott. Again, my two cents.

 

and believe me, most of my friends HATE the current superhero trend. I'm not too sure I know too many people in the industry who genuinely like them because they can't get their projects made especially for the big screen.

 

Scott is saying that these movies have bad scripts in addition to boring visuals and worlds. I think he said something like copy and paste. And he's right.

 

Maybe in 40 years people will talk about the deeper meanings and symbolisms of Thor The Dark World and BvS like people talk about Blade Runner today and all the haters like Scott will be proven wrong. I wouldn't take that bet, though.

[skillzdadirecta]

11 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

 

Scott is saying that these movies have bad scripts in addition to boring visuals and worlds. I think he said something like copy and paste. And he's right.

 

Maybe in 40 years people will talk about the deeper meanings and symbolisms of Thor The Dark World and BvS like people talk about Blade Runner today and all the haters like Scott will be proven wrong. I wouldn't take that bet, though.

 

Thor The Dark World and Batman vs Superman? No probably not... they probably won't be talking about Prometheus or Alien Covenant either. But it's not fair to judge Scott by just those two films right? Just like it's not fair to judge a whole genre by two of the worse examples of that genre. 

[GeneticBlueprint]

8 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

Thor The Dark World and Batman vs Superman? No probably not... they probably won't be talking about Prometheus or Alien Covenant either. But it's not fair to judge Scott by just those two films right? Just like it's not fair to judge a whole genre by two of the worse examples of that genre. 

 

But they are. That's what I was getting at. They're typically regarded as the worst but they're not that much different than the best.

[skillzdadirecta]

12 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

 

But they are. That's what I was getting at. They're typically regarded as the worst but they're not that much different than the best.

Batman vs Superman isn't much different than The Dark Night? Thor the Dark world isn't much different than Logan? Ok... didn't realize you hated the genre so much. I'll respectfully disagree with you and Sir Ridley and leave it at that 

[GeneticBlueprint]

7 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Batman vs Superman isn't much different than The Dark Night? Thor the Dark world isn't much different than Logan? Ok... didn't realize you hated the genre so much. I'll respectfully disagree with you and Sir Ridley and leave it at that 

 

Touché. But I was more talking about the blob of indistinguishable Marvel tripe. Like I said in my first post, Scott's comments apply to most comic book movies. Not all.

[Moa]

Superhero movies are bad.

[thewhyteboar]

Scorsese was absolutely right. Comic book movies are roller-coaster rides: fun while you're experiencing it, absolutely forgettable once you're done. And there is absolutely a place for movies like that, it just sucks that there doesn't seem to be any oxygen for any other type of movies. 

 

Scott has definitely made a ton of stinkers, and he is so prolific that by now the duds might outweigh the good ones, but at least he is trying. 

[Kal-El814]

4 hours ago, thewhyteboar said:

Scorsese was absolutely right. Comic book movies are roller-coaster rides: fun while you're experiencing it, absolutely forgettable once you're done.

 

This is MOST movies though, and I’d argue that’s kind of the point.

 

4 hours ago, thewhyteboar said:

Scott has definitely made a ton of stinkers, and he is so prolific that by now the duds might outweigh the good ones, but at least he is trying. 

 

Scott is occasionally great, Scorsese’s batting average of interesting movies is damn near unimpeachable. But I object to the notion that comic book movies “aren’t trying” even if they’re predictable at this point. If what they were doing was so easy, the DCU movies wouldn’t be Russian roulette with 5 filled chambers, the percentage of Batman movies that are good would be better, etc. George Lucas couldn’t make 6 Star Wars movies worth a damn, us getting predictably entertaining superhero movies doesn’t happen because people “aren’t trying.”

[heydude93]

Scott's clearly goofing around and having some fun on his press day . Nothing he said in those excerpts is anything worth getting mad over, though I get why it might be considered provocative 

[Bloodporne]

I have the completely illogical opinion that a Scorsese or Scott has earned the right to say whatever stupid shit they want to say about cinema. I can dislike those opinions all day long but at the end of the day, the motherfucker still made Alien and Blade Runner so...pop off queen? 

[Kal-El814]

19 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

I have the completely illogical opinion that a Scorsese or Scott has earned the right to say whatever stupid shit they want to say about cinema. I can dislike those opinions all day long but at the end of the day, the motherfucker still made Alien and Blade Runner so...pop off queen? 

 

Of course this is true.

 

I mean if I REALLY wanted to have a beef with people like Scott or Scorsese coming in hot about how today’s popular scripts are bad, I would say that they have both been the beneficiaries of being straight, white male auteurs who peaked at a time when straight, white men of their generation were the most vocal and influential critics, and I don’t think the extent to which their (and many people in similar positions) reputations have benefitted from this is ever going to be truly appreciated.

 

This is not to say that they are not great, or that their output is not quality, but you know… not everyone gets to make the 7th Alien movie, have it absolutely blow, then get a $140M check to cast Christian Bale as Moses and Joel Edgerton as motherfucking Ramesses II. So I dunno, maybe count your blessings, Ridley?

[heydude93]

9 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Of course this is true.

 

I mean if I REALLY wanted to have a beef with people like Scott or Scorsese coming in hot about how today’s popular scripts are bad, I would say that they have both been the beneficiaries of being straight, white male auteurs who peaked at a time when straight, white men of their generation were the most vocal and influential critics, and I don’t think the extent to which their (and many people in similar positions) reputations have benefitted from this is ever going to be truly appreciated.

 

This is not to say that they are not great, or that their output is not quality, but you know… not everyone gets to make the 7th Alien movie, have it absolutely blow, then get a $140M check to cast Christian Bale as Moses and Joel Edgerton as motherfucking Ramesses II. So I dunno, maybe count your blessings, Ridley?

 

Based, though to be completely fair to Scorsese, he started peaking at a time when there was still lots of normalized discrimination towards Italians.

 

As for Ridley, I genuinely wonder how much he cares about being a serious director anymore lol.  Watching movies like Exodus and Prometheus just breaks your mind to think about what fuels him to choose some of the movies he ends up directing. Not that there arent some enjoyable ones too, but it's like he intentionally wants a hit and miss filmography or something lol

[Guest]

I guess for me I don’t mind seeing a movie that fails when it tries something interesting or difficult, but I am growing tired of movies that feel like they were made on an assembly line, one after the other. 
 

They are competently made films, top to bottom, but they no longer command my attention generally. And uninteresting scripts are a major part of that. The Marvel machine in particular is tough. Fiege has done something really incredible and should be applauded, but without a pretty major shift in process I think I’m personally done with Marvel.

[skillzdadirecta]

1 hour ago, heydude93 said:

 

Based, though to be completely fair to Scorsese, he started peaking at a time when there was still lots of normalized discrimination towards Italians.

 

As for Ridley, I genuinely wonder how much he cares about being a serious director anymore lol.  Watching movies like Exodus and Prometheus just breaks your mind to think about what fuels him to choose some of the movies he ends up directing. Not that there arent some enjoyable ones too, but it's like he intentionally wants a hit and miss filmography or something lol

I think Ridley just works the system and knows how to do it. He'll do a big budget, epic popcorn film but then do something "risky" like The Last Duel. Like Ebert said in that Blade Runner review I posted, Ridley seems really interested in creating worlds and this is a pretty common theme throughout his career.

 

2 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

I have the completely illogical opinion that a Scorsese or Scott has earned the right to say whatever stupid shit they want to say about cinema. I can dislike those opinions all day long but at the end of the day, the motherfucker still made Alien and Blade Runner so...pop off queen? 

He's entitled to say what he wants but again, I just pointed out how HE HIMSELF was accused of the same thing when he was younger with BOTH of the films you mentioned. Blade Runner was a complete commercial flop and found an audience on cable and home video. Alien was dismissed as a gory horror film by "serious" critics. Now both films are considered classics. That's the irony I'm pointing out and I think it's valid to do so.

 

2 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

I would say that they have both been the beneficiaries of being straight, white male auteurs who peaked at a time when straight, white men of their generation were the most vocal and influential critics, and I don’t think the extent to which their (and many people in similar positions) reputations have benefitted from this is ever going to be truly appreciated.

 

[Bloodporne]

9 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

He's entitled to say what he wants but again, I just pointed out how HE HIMSELF was accused of the same thing when he was younger with BOTH of the films you mentioned. Blade Runner was a complete commercial flop and found an audience on cable and home video. Alien was dismissed as a gory horror film by "serious" critics. Now both films are considered classics. That's the irony I'm pointing out and I think it's valid to do so.

I actually fully agree with that! I know their critical reception at the time so I fully see the irony, that's why I said I illogically think this really and pointed out that they do say "stupid shit". I didn't mean my post as a retort to anyone else's at all, just that I have this weird thing where if something is classic to me, go to town being a bitch later on, I couldn't care less. 

[skillzdadirecta]

8 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

I actually fully agree with that! I know their critical reception at the time so I fully see the irony, that's why I said I illogically think this really and pointed out that they do say "stupid shit". I didn't mean my post as a retort to anyone else's at all, just that I have this weird thing where if something is classic to me, go to town being a bitch later on, I couldn't care less. 

I hear you... I just used to hear a lot of the same old man shit from my uncles growing up and I vowed to never become them 

[Bloodporne]

3 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I hear you... I just used to hear a lot of the same old man shit from my uncles growing up and I vowed to never become them 

I thought I wouldn't either but I'm like 80% at Old Man Yelling At Clouds level

[skillzdadirecta]

1 minute ago, Bloodporne said:

I thought I wouldn't either but I'm like 80% at Old Man Yelling At Clouds level

It takes effort man 

[Bacon]

I don't like Blade Runner, but without Blade Runner 2049 wouldn't exist so I am thankful for it. 

 

When I say I don't like Blade Runner it is just the story, or maybe the way the story is told. Everything else is amazing about it. It still looks visually great all these years later. 

[Kal-El814]

27 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

I guess for me I don’t mind seeing a movie that fails when it tries something interesting or difficult, but I am growing tired of movies that feel like they were made on an assembly line, one after the other. 
 

They are competently made films, top to bottom, but they no longer command my attention generally. And uninteresting scripts are a major part of that. The Marvel machine in particular is tough. Fiege has done something really incredible and should be applauded, but without a pretty major shift in process I think I’m personally done with Marvel.

 

For me personally, I like interesting failures if they’re something I already have access to. I don’t mind killing that time with a streaming app, but I’d be pissed if I went to a theater and paid to see it specifically. I appreciate that with an MCU movie I’ll get what I perceive to be my money’s worth even if it’s rare that they’re surprising. It’s not JUST MCU movies I feel this way about of course, just using them as an example here.

 

And of course I can understand someone else’s calculus being completely different, I’d never assume this particular way of thinking about it is “correct.”

 

I do think that MCU movies take more than their fair share of shit when it comes to what they do. We’re at the umpteenth Fast & the Furious movie, and I maintain that you know what you’re getting 99% of the time you walk into a theater and there’s movie starring The Rock or Stallone or Cruise or if it’s a Pixar movie, etc. Do we know the specifics? No, but the vibes are similar and that’s part of the appeal.

[Bloodporne]

26 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

It takes effort man 

Ew.

[skillzdadirecta]

17 minutes ago, Bacon said:

I don't like Blade Runner, but without Blade Runner 2049 wouldn't exist so I am thankful for it. 

 

When I say I don't like Blade Runner it is just the story, or maybe the way the story is told. Everything else is amazing about it. It still looks visually great all these years later. 

You and Roger Ebert are in agreement. You should read his review... he felt the same way. Which version did you see? There's a bajillion of them 

[skillzdadirecta]

27 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

For me personally, I like interesting failures if they’re something I already have access to. I don’t mind killing that time with a streaming app, but I’d be pissed if I went to a theater and paid to see it specifically. I appreciate that with an MCU movie I’ll get what I perceive to be my money’s worth even if it’s rare that they’re surprising. It’s not JUST MCU movies I feel this way about of course, just using them as an example here.

 

And of course I can understand someone else’s calculus being completely different, I’d never assume this particular way of thinking about it is “correct.”

 

I do think that MCU movies take more than their fair share of shit when it comes to what they do. We’re at the umpteenth Fast & the Furious movie, and I maintain that you know what you’re getting 99% of the time you walk into a theater and there’s movie starring The Rock or Stallone or Cruise or if it’s a Pixar movie, etc. Do we know the specifics? No, but the vibes are similar and that’s part of the appeal.

Exatcly right on all points and The Marvel movies get their fair share of shit because they're the big kids on the block. I love challenging artsy films more than I think folks give me credit for here and when I lived in New York, I used to LIVE in the arthouse theaters there. Now I'm older and I'd rather watch an interesting small film on my 65 inch OLED at home than go to a theater, ESPECIALLY during Covid. I used to have a theater in walking distance from my house but that closed down. There's another a couple of miles away that shows smaller, arthouse films but again, COVID. 

 

Also in my experience in recent years, a lot of film directors have forgotten how to tell tight, well paced films that don't meander or don't feel like something was left on the cutting room floor. Long form storytelling is DOMINATED by television right now where you have the space to build characters and tell a longer story. I jsut started binging Invasion on Apple TV... That series takes SIX episodes doing character building and creating tension before you even fully SEE an Alien in it. Modern films today are stuck in a storytelling quandary between attempting to do too much (something Eternals suffers from) or doing too little (Something I would argue Nomadland is guilty of) It's no mistake that some of the best films coming out right now are from overseas; almost every film that people are recommending to me that is more serious and dramatic is a foriegn film.

 

And great points about The Fast and Furious films and movies from Stallone, Cruise and The Rock. I've heard both Stallone and Cruise bitch about superhero movies too but at least Cruise will risk his fool life for a movie 

 

Ultimately I think everyone just needs to chill and watch what they want. There's WAAAAY too many films out there for people to be bitching about one genre being more popular than another. If you think superhero movies are shit, absolutely NO ONE is forcing you to watch them. No one. And there's plenty of other options out there.

[Bloodporne]

26 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

You and Roger Ebert are in agreement. You should read his review... he felt the same way. Which version did you see? There's a bajillion of them 

I haven't read it in a long time so maybe those criticisms still stood but he did end up re-reviewing Blade Runner and giving it 4 stars in a pretty rare move. 

[Bacon]

35 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Which version did you see?

No voice over, bullshit dream shit that is literally wrong and Ridley Scott should be put through immense pain for putting such a garbage idea into the movie after the fact. 

[skillzdadirecta]

11 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

I haven't read it in a long time so maybe those criticisms still stood but he did end up re-reviewing Blade Runner and giving it 4 stars in a pretty rare move. 

Did he rereview a different cut?

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Ultimately I think everyone just needs to chill and watch what they want. There's WAAAAY too many films out there for people to be bitching about one genre being more popular than another. If you think superhero movies are shit, absolutely NO ONE is forcing you to watch them. No one. And there's plenty of other options out there.

I think the complaint is mostly due to the fact that production dollars are a limited resource, and the movie studios moving a larger percentage of their annual production budgets to a particular category of film does mean less for other types of films at that budget level. But it is simply business, and the market continues to dictate that the big studious put out these types of films in quantities we would have been shocked by even 10 years ago.

 

Still, the point stands that we aren’t generally at a deficit of content. There has never been more stuff to watch and I’m sure everybody can find things they will enjoy.

[Bloodporne]

23 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Did he rereview a different cut?

Yup here it is. A good read too like his reviews tended to be in general

 

Final Cut review

[skillzdadirecta]

1 minute ago, Bloodporne said:

Yup here it is. A good read too like his reviews tended to be in general

 

Final Cut review

That makes sense because that's almost a different movie 

[Bloodporne]

Just now, skillzdadirecta said:

That makes sense because that's almost a different movie 

I've never actually seen the narrated version which I keep reading sucks big time.

[skillzdadirecta]

4 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

I've never actually seen the narrated version which I keep reading sucks big time.

You never need to see it. For a long time it was the ONLY version I saw.

[Keyser_Soze]

6 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

I've never actually seen the narrated version which I keep reading sucks big time.

 

For lulz

 

 

[Bloodporne]

1 hour ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

For lulz

 

 

Oh wow...now I get it. This sounds like one of those scenes from Naked Gun where Frank Drebin does a film noir speech.

[Keyser_Soze]

I think they showed the OG version on TV one time and I watched part of it for shits. Harrison Ford says the N word IIRC 🤔