Nintendo Bayonetta 3 (10/28/2022) - reviews from OpenCritic posted

[Ghost_MH]

11 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

Indirectly, with a weird Engrish Tweet and 0 receipts.

 

The only thing that's weird about this whole situation is that there's no way Jennifer Hale doesn't command a higher salary than Hellena Taylor. Taylor was perfect as Bayonetta and I really would have preferred they keep her around, no matter how much she wanted. She's absolutely worth it. Jennifer Hale, however, is as close to a household name as career voice actresses get.

[Xbob42]

1 minute ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

The only thing that's weird about this whole situation is that there's no way Jennifer Hale doesn't command a higher salary than Hellena Taylor. Taylor was perfect as Bayonetta and I really would have preferred they keep her around, no matter how much she wanted. She's absolutely worth it. Jennifer Hale, however, is as close to a household name as career voice actresses get.

Of course Hale's more expensive. If what Hellena is saying is true, then they lowballed her. If they lowballed her, it's because someone wanted to pressure her out so they could get more star power.

For the main character.

Of the third game in a longrunning franchise.

 

Because sure why the fuck not.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

19 hours ago, stepee said:

yeah I really need to play Bayo 2 at some point so I can play this lol

Saaaaaame.

[Ghost_MH]

1 minute ago, Xbob42 said:

Of course Hale's more expensive. If what Hellena is saying is true, then they lowballed her. If they lowballed her, it's because someone wanted to pressure her out so they could get more star power.

For the main character.

Of the third game in a longrunning franchise.

 

Because sure why the fuck not.

 

I don't see why she'd lie about this, but it also makes no sense to replace her great work and spend more money on someone that is literally emulating Taylor's previous performances. Hale does a great job keeping Bayonetta's voice somewhat close.

 

The only way this situation makes sense is if there was a union dispute and Bayonetta 3 wound up being a not union job, but I could swear Hale is pretty strongly pro-union...at least on the Hollywood side. I do know actor unions don't have nearly as much pull on the videogame side of things, though.

 

However, if there was some sort of union dispute, it would behoove Taylor to just say as much.

 

This whole situation is weird.

[Xbob42]

Yeah it's fuckin' weird. We're missing some part of the puzzle. Or maybe multiple parts. It's also possible that it's a piece Hellena doesn't even know about.

[Ghost_MH]

I just checked and they are both union, so it's definitely not a union issue.

 

We're really missing some info here.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

On 10/15/2022 at 3:14 PM, Ghost_MH said:

I just checked and they are both union, so it's definitely not a union issue.

 

We're really missing some info here.

 

I'm leaning towards the notion that her role as the "original" Bayonetta has only a small part in the game and therefore the compensation amount was scaled accordingly.  It would appear that the "original" Bayonetta isn't around for the vast majority of the game and therefore "new" Bayonetta played by Hale has the larger role.

[skillzdadirecta]

15 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 It would appear that the "original" Bayonetta isn't around for the vast majority of the game and therefore "new" Bayonetta played by Hale has the larger role.

Is THAT what it is? She's not the star anymore???

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

3 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Is THAT what it is? She's not the star anymore???

 

That's my current working assumption.

 

What does work against my assumption is that the Japanese vocal performer did not change.

[skillzdadirecta]

2 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

 

What does work against my assumption is that the Japanese vocal performer did not change.

[Ghost_MH]

1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

I'm leaning towards the notion that her role as the "original" Bayonetta has only a small role in the game and therefore the compensation amount was scaled accordingly.  It would appear that the "original" Bayonetta isn't around for the vast majority of the game and therefore "new" Bayonetta played by Hale has the larger role.

 

The Japanese VA being the same doesn't mean much in this case since Atsuko Tanaka, Bayonetta's Japanese VA, is prolific. She's a serious industry vet. She's been Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell since the 1995 movie, she's Lara Croft, she's Chun Li, she's the tree-faced evil spirit Hanami in Jujutsu Kaisen. She's got a good amount of range. Nothing against Hellena Taylor, because I absolutely love her in the role, but I don't know if she's done any voice acting outside of Bayonetta over the last decade.

 

Your theory could make sense if the "original" Bayonetta isn't there for most of the game and they didn't have confidence in her taking on two "different" roles the same way you'd trust someone like Atsuko Tanaka or Jennifer Hale to. In that case, they'd be looking to pay her plus another voice actress, where you could just get the same work out of just one of the more veteran actresses.

[Paperclyp]

The director's Twitter account has been deleted lol. 

[Keyser_Soze]

18 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

The Japanese VA being the same doesn't mean much in this case since Atsuko Tanaka, Bayonetta's Japanese VA, is prolific. She's a serious industry vet. She's been Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell since the 1995 movie, she's Lara Croft, she's Chun Li, she's the tree-faced evil spirit Hanami in Jujutsu Kaisen. She's got a good amount of range. Nothing against Hellena Taylor, because I absolutely love her in the role, but I don't know if she's done any voice acting outside of Bayonetta over the last decade.

 

Your theory could make sense if the "original" Bayonetta isn't there for most of the game and they didn't have confidence in her taking on two "different" roles the same way you'd trust someone like Atsuko Tanaka or Jennifer Hale to. In that case, they'd be looking to pay her plus another voice actress, where you could just get the same work out of just one of the more veteran actresses.

 

@Greatoneshere is that you?

[Greatoneshere]

10 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

@Greatoneshere is that you?

 

Haha no but @Ghost_MH knows his anime (and moar!) super well no question, we've been talking anime on the IGN Anime boards since I signed on to the IGN boards in April 2001 so we are not the same person.  

[Keyser_Soze]

3 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Haha no but @Ghost_MH knows his anime (and moar!) super well no question, we've been talking anime on the IGN Anime boards since I signed on to the IGN boards in April 2001 so we are not the same person.  

 

Oh yeah well I hung out with him on the DVDCB so we are also not the same person!

[Ghost_MH]

53 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Haha no but @Ghost_MH knows his anime (and moar!) super well no question, we've been talking anime on the IGN Anime boards since I signed on to the IGN boards in April 2001 so we are not the same person.  

 

48 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Oh yeah well I hung out with him on the DVDCB so we are also not the same person!

 

Hahaha, if it makes you both feel better a part of me being around both those boards was because I reviewed anime for IGN DVD back in those day.

[Greatoneshere]

2 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

Hahaha, if it makes you both feel better a part of me being around both those boards was because I reviewed anime for IGN DVD back in those day.

 

I remember those - I didn't visit the IGG DVDCB much but the IGN DVD main discussion board I was on a lot but not until 2004 or so.

[Brian]

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Jason Schreier/Bloomberg just posted an article with some more information:

 

 

 

The presence of documentary evidence pretty much makes all the difference in this affair.

[crispy4000]

If those documents are legitimate, and she broke NDAs, I wonder if Platinum/Nintendo have some sort of legal argument about damages from this whole fiasco.

 

Yikes.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Just now, crispy4000 said:

If those documents are legitimate, and she broke NDAs, I wonder if Platinum/Nintendo have some of legal argument about damages from this whole fiasco.

 

Yikes.

 

I would imagine that they would have some degree of legal recourse, but that juice just ain't worth the squeeze to pursue it.

[Keyser_Soze]

44 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

I would imagine that they would have some degree of legal recourse, but that juice just ain't worth the squeeze to pursue it.

 

It's Nintendo, they will punish her as hard as they can.

[Brian]

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

VGC has also corroborated Jason's reporting:

 

Sources dispute Bayonetta voice actor’s claims over pay offer | VGC

WWW.VIDEOGAMESCHRONICLE.COM

---

The former star behind the Platinum action series ignited a debate over fair pay this weekend…

 

Quote

 

According to people with knowledge of the situation, as well as documentation reviewed by both Bloomberg and VGC, Platinum intended to rehire Taylor last summer.

 

It’s claimed that Platinum sought to hire Taylor for “at least” five sessions (VGC’s sources suggested it could have been as few as four), with each paying $3,000 to $4,000 for four hours in the studio.

 

This would have brought Taylor’s total fee to $15,000, Bloomberg reports, as VGC can corroborate via our own sources. One person with knowledge of the deal claimed to VGC this represented a significant increase on Taylor’s fee for the second game.

 

According to Bloomberg, the voice actor responded by asking for a six-figure sum as well as residuals on the game – a claim Taylor strongly denies. VGC sources echoed the residuals claim, but did not mention a requested sum.

 

In private messages exchanged with VGC, Taylor called the suggestion that she was offered more than $4,000 “categorically untrue”. She also labelled claims by sources that she could’ve earned $15,000 “an absolute lie, and a complete joke”.

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

19 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

It's Nintendo, they will punish her as hard as they can.

 

I really do genuinely doubt that.

 

Nintendo probably "winked and nodded" the leak to Bloomberg in the expectation that it would put the story to rest, never to be heard from again.

[Paperclyp]

Wow, I am legit surprised. She frankly either didn't understand the offer (which I find unlikely), or she straight up lied. Assuming the latter, I kinda lost a little empathy for her. I have no idea what voice acting rates are, you can easily convince me that you're under paid even if you provide an accurate picture of what you were offered. Lying and requesting a boycott though? I dunno, doesn't sit quite right with me. 

[Brick]

1 hour ago, Paperclyp said:

Wow, I am legit surprised. She frankly either didn't understand the offer (which I find unlikely), or she straight up lied. Assuming the latter, I kinda lost a little empathy for her. I have no idea what voice acting rates are, you can easily convince me that you're under paid even if you provide an accurate picture of what you were offered. Lying and requesting a boycott though? I dunno, doesn't sit quite right with me. 

 

I remember hearing years ago when voice actor's were raising awareness that they're not getting any residuals, and better pay that they can make about 800 dollars a day, which is pretty good money, except that since it's it's not a super stable occupation, it's all contract work, like any acting gig, they're not working every day so they're not going home with $200 000 at the end of the year, (800 x 250 working days in a year) unless of course they're big sought-after talents. Some actors might only get a single gig in a month, and $800 in a month is not enough to live on. Looks like her only voice acting gig recently has been Bayonetta in Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS, and that was 8 years ago now. Ultimate reused the lines from the Wii U/3DS games, and she wouldn't have gotten payment/royalties/residuals for that. Obviously she might have been getting other work in theatre or elsewhere that isn't listed on IMDb, but still it sounds like she's struggling.

 

Since $800 per day at five days (sessions) would equal $4000 I wonder if that is what she thought she was being offered if she indeed mistakenly made an error, when really they meant $4000 per day, and it would be five days of recording. Even still her agent would probably clear that up with her.

[Kal-El814]

2 hours ago, Paperclyp said:

Wow, I am legit surprised. She frankly either didn't understand the offer (which I find unlikely), or she straight up lied.

 

Or the publisher is being dishonest about what they offered.

[Paperclyp]

1 minute ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Or the publisher is being dishonest about what they offered.

Possibly, but their claim has been corroborated by multiple independent sources at this point. It seems unlikely they're the ones being dishonest to me. 

[crispy4000]

8 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Or the publisher is being dishonest about what they offered.

 

Two editorial outlets corroborated the receipts.  It's far more likely that she stretched the truth about that final voice 'cameo' 4k.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

13 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Or the publisher is being dishonest about what they offered.

 

Bloomberg and VGC claim that they have documentation and I would imagine that involves communications between PG and Taylor that includes their original offer ($15K to $20K for 4 to 5 sessions), her rejection and counter offer (the "six figures" plus residuals), their rejection of her counter offer, and their final offer of $4K for 1 session for the cameo role.

[Kal-El814]

5 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

Possibly, but their claim has been corroborated by multiple independent sources at this point. It seems unlikely they're the ones being dishonest to me. 

 

3 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Two editorial outlets corroborated the receipts.  It's far more likely that she stretched the truth about that final 'cameo' 4k.

 

Just now, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Bloomberg and VGC claim that they have documentation and I would imagine that involves communications between PG and Taylor that includes their original offer ($15K to $20K for 4 to 5 sessions), her rejection and counter offer, their rejection and final offer of $4K for 1 session for the cameo role.

 

I think a publisher BSing an offer and presenting it to gaming journalists is at least as likely as a voice actor getting offered short shrift for their work, given that the Bloomberg article suggests that $4K would be in line with other offers for gigs on bigger titles.

 

She has very little reason to be dishonest, Platinum does.

 

I don't have a dog in this fight, I simply find the company line less believable.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

8 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

 

 

I think a publisher BSing an offer and presenting it to gaming journalists is at least as likely as a voice actor getting offered short shrift for their work, given that the Bloomberg article suggests that $4K would be in line with other offers for gigs on bigger titles.

 

She has very little reason to be dishonest, Platinum does.

 

I don't have a dog in this fight, I simply find the company line less believable.

 

I would like to think that someone like Schreier would have some kind of "bullshit detector" go off if he was handed some all-too-convenient documentation.  Thus, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt here.

[Kal-El814]

19 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

I would like to think that someone like Schreier would have some kind of "bullshit detector" go off if he was handed some all-too-convenient documentation.  Thus, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt here.

That’s completely reasonable! I’d also expect a contractor to know what they’re getting offered for their work / the terms of the agreement they reviewed.
 

I doubt we’ll ever “know” definitively. 

[Ghost_MH]

10 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

That’s completely reasonable! I’d also expect a contractor to know what they’re getting offered for their work / the terms of the agreement they reviewed.
 

I doubt we’ll ever “know” definitively. 

 

It's probably also worth noting that whatever she was offered should be acceptable for the union since it seems the English dub was a union job. I'm not sure how you'd get away with unacceptably low balling a union actress on a union gig.