AbsolutSurgen Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said: I agree that Control had more/better balance, but it's also trying to be a different game than Alan Wake II. Alan Wake II is a sequel to Alan Wake, a game that didn't have a ton of combat, was pretty easy/straightforward when it did, etc. (as you know, having just played it with the flare nukes). Combat is not really what these games are about, so wanting/expecting more of it in a sequel strikes me as strange. This is a psychological survival horror game. This is a sequel to Alan Wake after all. Alan Wake II is everything Alan Wake was but more done better. I'm not sure why people are complaining about Alan Wake II winning some GOTY awards. BG3 has won by far the most according to SFLUFAN's thread, with Zelda coming in second and Alan Wake II a distant third in terms of winning #1. But if you can't see why it is winning awards at all or at least getting placed on lists, I can't help you. Maybe it's the great graphics, music, storytelling, intrigue, uniqueness, etc. A lot to like with Alan Wake II and all anyone can focus on is it's relative lack of combat when that was never Alan Wake to begin with. And a game winning awards for things besides combat/gameplay is nothing controversial. The game is an experience, and that's why it's winning awards. Whether you like that experience or not seems to be the determining factor. As someone who JUST played through Alan Wake Remastered and Alan Wake American Nightmare over the past several weeks. -- IMHO, Alan Wake 2 has a lot less combat than the earlier 2 games. American Nightmare had a LOT more variety in enemy types than the first game -- and a lot more variety in weapon type. I spent most of American Nightmare running around with an Uzi and an Assault rifle as my two guns. I think, your point on why AW2 was winning GOTY is bang on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 11 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: As someone who JUST played through Alan Wake Remastered and Alan Wake American Nightmare over the past several weeks. -- IMHO, Alan Wake 2 has a lot less combat than the earlier 2 games. American Nightmare had a LOT more variety in enemy types than the first game -- and a lot more variety in weapon type. I spent most of American Nightmare running around with an Uzi and an Assault rifle as my two guns. I think, your point on why AW2 was winning GOTY is bang on. Oh it’s not a question, Alan Wake, and especially American Nightmare (it even has an arcade mode!) has way more combat than AW2. AW2 designs itself more around few but difficult encounters. In AW1 a lot of the combat is kinda samey and there’s probably too much but it would be too short otherwise. Having less encounters in AW2 worked for me on the horror level where I was more scared throughout because I didn’t get as desensitized by constant combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 59 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: As someone who JUST played through Alan Wake Remastered and Alan Wake American Nightmare over the past several weeks. -- IMHO, Alan Wake 2 has a lot less combat than the earlier 2 games. American Nightmare had a LOT more variety in enemy types than the first game -- and a lot more variety in weapon type. I spent most of American Nightmare running around with an Uzi and an Assault rifle as my two guns. I think, your point on why AW2 was winning GOTY is bang on. It definitely had more combat, but it was incredibly tedious (as you said, too much). Alan Wake II is a more curated experience, which I appreciated compared to running into routine/generic enemies ad nauseum that Alan Wake 1 did. American Nightmare did have a lot more guns, etc. but it didn't feel very Alan Wake-y. I think I liked this more cautious, pseudo-Silent Hill approach more. Those games' combat also felt very simple/floaty, I appreciated the weightier, punchier combat here. But I originally mentioned the difficulty only because you mentioned the enemies are slow and bullet sponges - on hard they aren't slow (some are still) as most can eventually teleport right in front of you. I'm not saying the game becomes hard but the enemies (especially the dogs) didn't feel slow or spongey to me. As to the other two things you mentioned, I agree with you, combat was too little as opposed to too much and weapon variety was low but I felt neither was really needed for the experience. This isn't RE4, would the tone of the game work with us carrying an Uzi around? I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 15 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: It definitely had more combat, but it was incredibly tedious (as you said, too much). Alan Wake II is a more curated experience, which I appreciated compared to running into routine/generic enemies ad nauseum that Alan Wake 1 did. American Nightmare did have a lot more guns, etc. but it didn't feel very Alan Wake-y. I think I liked this more cautious, pseudo-Silent Hill approach more. Those games' combat also felt very simple/floaty, I appreciated the weightier, punchier combat here. But I originally mentioned the difficulty because you mentioned the enemies are slow and bullet sponges - on hard they aren't slow (some are still) as most can eventually teleport right in front of you. I'm not saying the game becomes hard but the enemies (especially the dogs) didn't feel slow or spongey to me. As to the other two things you mentioned, I agree with you, combat was too little as opposed to too much and weapon variety was low but I felt neither was really needed for the experience. This isn't RE4, would the tone of the game work with us carrying an Uzi around? I dunno. I think your preferences for combat are just different than mine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best3444 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 The other thing I'd like to comment on is the visuals. On PS5 ia looks good but not amazing. PC peeps have a huge advantage here and can call it a visual masterpiece. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 7 minutes ago, best3444 said: The other thing I'd like to comment on is the visuals. On PS5 ia looks good but not amazing. PC peeps have a huge advantage here and can call it a visual masterpiece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 I saw the credits roll on Alan Wake 2 tonight. It simultaneously had some aspects that were among the best games I had ever played, and others that were... disappointing. This game has the best soundtrack of any game I have ever played. Period. So many great individual songs. The storytelling is among the best I've experienced. Tons of memorable characters. Tons of memorable moments. This is A++++. The game part... Not as stellar. It gets bogged down in game systems that are just not fun. For example, one of the playable characters, Saga Anderson, has a "Case Board" which involves you putting polaroid pictures on a board to solve cases and move the story forward. It feels new early on, but they never build on it. There is no skill involved. You click the polaroid picture, put it where it belongs and [usually] get a story beat. In fact, there is one chapter late in the game where you do this OVER and OVER for about 20 minutes -- just terrible gameplay design. The combat is similarly disappointing. You move slowly, have limited ammo, and take FOREVER to reload. Early in the game, this is no big deal. However, some of the later encounters involve waves of enemies -- and I had numerous times, I was backing away waiting for my weapons to slowly reload so I could take 2 shots, and reload again. Remedy knows how to make good combat -- Quantum Break and Control had good combat -- even AW: American Nightmare had MUCH more satisfying combat than this. In the end -- my god, the memorable moments in this game are just so god damn good. It's hard not to say that everyone should play it, just for the experience. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 From what I've read and seen, it genuinely appears that the game could've benefitted significantly by removing the combat entirely and used those resources to enhance its puzzle/mystery aspects. Especially for a developer like Remedy whose prowess in creating truly engaging combat gameplay peaked over 20 years ago with Max Payne 2 and has been on a (more or less) downward trajectory ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 9 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: From what I've read and seen, it genuinely appears that the game could've benefitted significantly by removing the combat entirely and used those resources to enhance its puzzle/mystery aspects. Especially for a developer like Remedy whose prowess in creating truly engaging combat gameplay peaked over 20 years ago with Max Payne 2 and has been on a (more or less) downward trajectory ever since. I haven't played the Max Payne games. I really do think that Remedy's combat has been improving over there last few games. Control > Quantum Break > Alan Wake American Nightmare > Alan Wake I think AW2 needs combat. IMHO, if they had gone more in the direction of AW:AN -- where it is much faster paced and more frequent, it would have been a better game. I didn't find the puzzles better than the combat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 3 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: I haven't played the Max Payne games. I really do think that Remedy's combat has been improving over there last few games. Control > Quantum Break > Alan Wake American Nightmare > Alan Wake I think AW2 needs combat. IMHO, if they had gone more in the direction of AW:AN -- where it is much faster paced and more frequent, it would have been a better game. I didn't find the puzzles better than the combat. The combat was such a non factor in this game that you could literally "beat" a lot of encounters simply by running past them. That's what I did for MOST of the combat in this game except for parts where the game forces you to fight. I didn't even bother with the any puzzles I didn't have to solve. There were parts of this game I liked, but its highs didn't resonate with me nearly as much as they did for you. Again, I've played and loved ALL of Remedy's games but this one was a huge miss for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Just now, skillzdadirecta said: The combat was such a non factor in this game that you could literally "beat" a lot of encounters simply by running past them. That's what I did for MOST of the combat in this game except for parts where the game forces you to fight. I didn't even bother with the any puzzles I didn't have to solve. There were parts of this game I liked, but its highs didn't resonate with me nearly as much as they did for you. Again, I've played and loved ALL of Remedy's games but this one was a huge miss for me. You're right about the combat -- much of it could be skipped (some of it couldn't). I'll be honest, this level is potentially the highpoint of my gaming life: Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Got the plat for it and absolutely loved it, amazing how the series is truly a video game Twin Peaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Remedy Entertainment Plc: Remedy announces sales information for Alan Wake 2 - Remedy Investors INVESTORS.REMEDYGAMES.COM Remedy Entertainment Plc Stock Exchange Release February 16, 2024 […] Quote Today, Remedy Entertainment Plc (“Remedy”) announces that Alan Wake 2 has sold 1 million units by the end of December 2023, and 1.3 million units as of the beginning of February 2024. Alan Wake 2 is Remedy’s fastest selling game so far. By comparison, Alan Wake 2 sold over 50% more copies and over three times more digital copies in its first two months than Control did in its first four months. Since its release in 2019, Control has sold over 4 million units, generating net revenue (shareable revenue between Remedy and a publishing partner, excluding taxes and platform fees) of approximately EUR 100 million. A great game can generate excellent long tail sales, and we expect this to be the case with Alan Wake 2 as well. We will continue promoting and supporting Alan Wake 2 and are creating two paid DLCs that will expand the story. We are also releasing updates and carrying out other activities to support the game and its community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxEvil AshxX Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Imagine what it could have done if it wasn't stuck on the Epic Games store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 Quote While Alan Wake 2's initial sales have been strong, those sales don't amount to a profit for Remedy yet. Providing comment in the release, Remedy's CEO Tero Virtala said the game has "already recouped a significant part of the development and marketing expenses", meaning Alan Wake 2 isn't in the black yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best3444 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Well I gave them my hard earned money for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 10 minutes ago, best3444 said: Well I gave them my hard earned money for nothing. I bought it on an Epic Sale for half price. I don't mine blowing that amount on a game I don't love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Being a sizeable jump from Control is a good sign for them. They deserve all the success in the world. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best3444 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 6 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: I bought it on an Epic Sale for half price. I don't mine blowing that amount on a game I don't love. Good. I still really like Remedy and I'm looking forward to Control 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 "Not profitable yet?" How much did this thing cost to make?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 10 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said: "Not profitable yet?" How much did this thing cost to make?! Quote In late 2023, Finnish outlet Helsingin Sanomat reported that Alan Wake 2's budget was in the ballpark of $75 million, of which some $21.5 million was earmarked for marketing, citing analyst estimates. 1.3 million sold units ostensibly generated around $60 million in revenue, once storefront cuts are accounted for. The fact that this figure still isn't enough to recoup the costs of Alan Wake 2underlines how AAA game development has gotten significantly more expensive in recent times. Remedy's past disclosures suggested that Epic Games Publishing would be taking 100% of the game's revenue until Alan Wake 2 breaks even, and 50% afterward. Alan Wake 2 Is Remedy’s Fastest-Selling Game, Hasn’t Recouped Development Costs GAMERANT.COM Remedy finally breaks silence on Alan Wake 2 sales, revealing an impressive figure that still wasn't enough to recoup the game's development costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 How in the hell did this "game" cost 75 million?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best3444 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 I wonder if they released physical copies sales would be higher? I honestly don't know because a lot just do digital today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 7 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said: How in the hell did this "game" cost 75 million?! Finland is an extremely high cost-of-living country so I'd imagine that developer salaries/benefits significantly contributed to that amount. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 The production values of Alan Wake 2 were really high. I can see how they saved money (by using some of the locations over and over) -- but this is a proper AAA game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Luckily Remedy didn’t have to pay for development so they should be good while they wait for it to cross the threshold while working on MP1/2 and Control 2! Happy to hear it’s off to a good start for them historically - especially considering everything it had against it (digital only and no Steam release, high pc requirements that locked out 1000 series cards, etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said: The production values of Alan Wake 2 were really high. I can see how they saved money (by using some of the locations over and over) -- but this is a proper AAA game. EXPERIENCE FFTFY 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 We can all debate about how much we like the gameplay/combat of AW2 (I think I have talked enough about it in this thread). But whether we liked it or not, it very much is a game. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Hey I'm just trying to give them credit for what they were attempting... clearly they were more concerned with the presentation, storytelling and atmosphere than the actual gameplay. Remedy has shown in the past that they can do compelling gameplay when they want to. That clearly wasn't the primary concern here I think it comes down to whether or not you actually enjoyed that experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 I’ll just say I consider things like Kings Quest 5, Myst, The Witness, Detroit, Gone Home, Under a Killing Moon, Sewer Shark, 7th Quest, Gabriel Knight, all to be games so I think my idea of what a game is doesn’t match some of you, unless it’s just jokes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Given that there were others, like @Greatoneshere, who really did enjoy the gameplay. I really think its unfair to say that Remedy didn't spend time on the gameplay. I think they did. It just didn't resonate strongly with some of us. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 2 minutes ago, stepee said: I’ll just say I consider things like Kings Quest 5, Myst, The Witness, Detroit, Gone Home, Under a Killing Moon, Sewer Shark, 7th Quest, Gabriel Knight, all to be games so I think my idea of what a game is doesn’t match some of you, unless it’s just jokes. A Memoir Blue was a game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Just now, Keyser_Soze said: A Memoir Blue was a game. Hotel Dusk is a (FANTASTIC) game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remarkableriots Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 6 minutes ago, stepee said: Hotel Dusk is a (FANTASTIC) game. I'm looking forward to Motel Simulator where you get to Create, Renovate & grow your own business! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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