PC Are isometric cRPGS' resurgence already dying?

[Massdriver]

From Obsidian, we now have Tyranny and Pillars 2 that seem to be underperforming. Shadowrun Hong Kong only sold a little over 200k copies, compared to 500k for Dragonfall on Steam. 

 

Tyranny came in below expectations: https://www.pcgamesn.com/tyranny/tyranny-sales-paradox-obsidian

 

And now with Pillars 2 Deadfire only selling 200k copies on Steam since release, I'm starting to think that the nostalgia is over. Divinity OS 2 is the exception with 1.6 million Steam copies sold, but its style is slightly different. 

 

Any thoughts?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

The new Pathfinder CRPG will be a good test of this notion.

 

In the case of Shadowrun, I think it's possible that HBS went to the well "one time too many" in releasing three Shadowrun games within the space of a few years.

[Mr.Vic20]

Great games will usually sell well, and Divinity 2 was a great game. Tyranny was not a great game. PoE II, much as I enjoyed it, was no Divinity 2! 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

In regard to Pillars of Eternity, I understand that one of the "complaints" was that it was almost TOO reverential to the Infinity Engine games of the past, and perhaps that contributed to its sequel's underperformance.

[RedSoxFan9]

They are long games and it’s hard to justify buying the sequel when you haven’t finished the first.

[Massdriver]

16 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

Great games will usually sell well, and Divinity 2 was a great game. Tyranny was not a great game. PoE II, much as I enjoyed it, was no Divinity 2! 

I'm just about done with GTA5 (overrated in my view) and plan on firing up Tyranny next. I heard the first act is pretty good, but it falls off in act 2.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

3 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

I'm just about done with GTA5 (overrated in my view) and plan on firing up Tyranny next. I heard the first act is pretty good, but it falls off in act 2.

@Mr.Vic20 can provide more info, but my understanding is that Tyranny just comes to an abrupt, screeching end.

[Mr.Vic20]

Yup, Tyranny cliff hangs in a way that clearly indicates it was either a full game made incompletely or a finished game that was intentionally cut in half. Either way, its an unsatisfying experience, despite having some truly engaging game play elements you won't find elsewhere!  

[Brian]

Great RPS article about it

 

To me this is similar to JRPG throwbacks that we have been seeing more of lately, where the Devs either fail or refuse to modernize and innovate. 

 

In the beginning, it was enough to release a traditional CRPG and have it sell well because there was a void in the marketplace. It also helped that plenty of players, who never played those games, were interested in trying them out. Once the void was overfilled, you have not seen much innovation outside of D:OS series. 

 

Like the RPS articles mentioned, these games are really long, have extreme amounts of text/lore, and the player experiences long periods of gameplay droughts in a static world.  At times, it feels like you are reading an encyclopedia instead of playing a game. By the time I am done, I am burned out and can’t look at another CRPG for at least a year. 

 

CRPGs aren’t dead, but the current version of them isn’t sustainable. The article gives me hope that Devs recognizes the need for change. 

[Massdriver]

11 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

Great RPS article about it

 

To me this is similar to JRPG throwbacks that we have been seeing more of lately, where the Devs either fail or refuse to modernize and innovate. 

 

In the beginning, it was enough to release a traditional CRPG and have it sell well because there was a void in the marketplace. It also helped that plenty of players, who never played those games, were interested in trying them out. Once the void was overfilled, you have not seen much innovation outside of D:OS series. 

 

Like the RPS articles mentioned, these games are really long, have extreme amounts of text/lore, and the player experiences long periods of gameplay droughts in a static world.  At times, it feels like you are reading an encyclopedia instead of playing a game. By the time I am done, I am burned out and can’t look at another CRPG for at least a year. 

 

CRPGs aren’t dead, but the current version of them isn’t sustainable. The article gives me hope that Devs recognizes the need for change. 

I enjoyed Pillars, but I do like the idea of more concise blocks of text. It seems the developers are going that direction. I agree with you that there needs to be more innovation. It's good to know that there is a lot of effort going into crpgs going forward.

[Bacon]

So, I played Divinity: OS and I liked the gameplay a lot, but BOY I couldn't get into the story and part of the issue was the dual MCs. I don't like that. I avoid books that don't focus on 1 character. I know that may not make sense with Divinity because of how the two characters are handled, but I still really don't like it. I bought pillars and spent 2 hours on the tutorial with different classes and races, and I hated the gameplay and the story was weak, at least at the start. I played Starcraft 2 once and I hated that, and Pillars felt like a smaller scale version of that.

 

That is the one thing I like about the bigger AAA RPG titles. A primary focus on the MC and the story is usually right in your face. Even if it isn't a good story it is at least entertaining from the start. I am the kind of person who really needs something to hook them. The Watcher/Warden(whatever) thing was boring to me. 

[Paperclyp]

I could see a lot of people like me who are really into the idea of these, but after buying a few and (unfortunately) not having the time to commit, eventually stop buying them unless they’re dirt cheap. 

[Keyser_Soze]

1 hour ago, Bacon said:

So, I played Divinity: OS and I liked the gameplay a lot, but BOY I couldn't get into the story and part of the issue was the dual MCs. I don't like that. I avoid books that don't focus on 1 character. I know that may not make sense with Divinity because of how the two characters are handled,

 

It's like two characters are the same person, so yes it doesn't make any sense for you to not like it.

[legend]

That sucks that Pillars 2 is doing so poorly. There are absolutely valid complaints about it, but it also had some great stuff in it and I really like the visual style they've built.

 

I think DOS2's amazing success means there is still a solid interesting the games, but it may mean that they need to diversify more as DOS2 did. 

 

FWIW, Dragonfall was simply better than Hong Kong, even though I did like Hong Kong a lot.

 

RE: Tyranny, yeah it just kind of stops. There are even additional GUI elements pointing to a continuation of the story. I was fully expecting a big expansion for the continuation, but it never came. Not sure if they scrapped it because it did poorly or if they never actually planned on finishing it in an expansion. Otherwise it's pretty great with a refreshing take on matters.

[Bacon]

50 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

It's like two characters are the same person, so yes it doesn't make any sense for you to not like it.

I know, but I don't like it. 

[crispy4000]

They've got to find a way to make these games more appealing to console audiences, IMO.  Porting more them would be a start.
 

19 hours ago, SFLUFAN said:

The new Pathfinder CRPG will be a good test of this notion.

 

In the case of Shadowrun, I think it's possible that HBS went to the well "one time too many" in releasing three Shadowrun games within the space of a few years.

 

Shadowrun games have all been dirt cheap as well.  A huge portion of their sales must have come from Humble Bundles.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, crispy4000 said:

They've got to find a way to make these games more appealing to console audiences, IMO.  Porting more them would be a start.

Practically all of them are ported to the consoles

 

It's just that the overwhelming majority of the console audience has zero interest in them.

[crispy4000]

11 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

Practically all of them are ported to the consoles

 

It's just that the overwhelming majority of the console audience has zero interest in them.

 

Tyranny and the Shadowrun trilogy haven't been.

... Wasn't Dragon Age: Origins a big hit on consoles for EA last gen?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Just now, crispy4000 said:

 

Tyranny and the Shadowrun triology haven't been.

... Wasn't Dragon Age: Origins a big hit on consoles for EA last gen?

Tyranny and Shadowrun haven't, but Divinity: Original Sin/Pillars of Eternity/Wasteland 2/Torment: Tides of Numenera were ported to consoles where they faded into obscurity. 

 

I have no idea how Dragon Age: Origins did on the consoles, but I think we can surmise based on how completely different Dragon Age II and Dragon Age: Inquisition were that EA felt it needed to radically change to suit that market.

[RedSoxFan9]

I like that some of these games are being ported to the switch. 

[Massdriver]

Pillars 2 is 20% off right now on Steam. I'm semi tempted, but I got a huge backlog so I will probably pass at the moment.

[VisualDeadlock]

Pillars of Eternity 2 first DLC story has been released, Beasts of Winter, for those interested.

 

As mentioned, Pathfinder Kingmaker is coming as is Sword Omen Legacy.  I'm looking forward to both.  I believe they are both being released this August (Pathfinder may be in Sept, I would have to check again).

[Bacon]

I played DA:O on 360. I loved it. One of my favorite games that I played on the 360. It was only made 10x better when I got my first gaming PC.

10 hours ago, SFLUFAN said:

I have no idea how Dragon Age: Origins did on the consoles, but I think we can surmise based on how completely different Dragon Age II and Dragon Age: Inquisition were that EA felt it needed to radically change to suit that market.

I also played the other DA games on console. They were fucking trash. 

 

[TheLeon]

I bought a bunch of these games when this resurgence started, then I realized I don't actually enjoy them. I keep trying them, but none of them click with me. 

[Keyser_Soze]

2 hours ago, TheLeon said:

I bought a bunch of these games when this resurgence started, then I realized I don't actually enjoy them. I keep trying them, but none of them click with me. 

 

Try them with a friend. I started a new game of DOSEE with a friend and found the combat more enjoyable.

Also, I learned my lesson from the first time I played and went mage  

[TheLeon]

58 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Try them with a friend. I started a new game of DOSEE with a friend and found the combat more enjoyable.

Also, I learned my lesson from the first time I played and went mage  

Thank you for assuming I have a friend that I could play a 60+ hour RPG with. 

[Keyser_Soze]

Play it with @legend and it will be closer to 30 hours  

 

Id suggest myself but like I’m already going through it right now and stuff... 

[legend]

9 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

Play it with @legend and it will be closer to 30 hours  

 

Id suggest myself but like I’m already going through it right now and stuff... 

 

 No, I'm afraid not. Game is fucking tough. Many of the battles, even "mundane" ones, need to be independently thought through. This is not a game where you learn one or two strategies and just repeat it on each encounter. I had previously started a second playthrough with my wife, but having already played it with my friend did *not* make it a breeze to go through, because one play through is not nearly enough to remember how to play each battle. This goes doubly if you change your character designs.

[Keyser_Soze]

It’s easy if you go mage and Ranger, maybe even two mages. Magic is op.

[Dexterryu]

As someone that played several of the games in the OP but only one sequel (Divinity 2). The reason being is that while I enjoy the worlds, exploration, and gameplay of PoE and Shadowrun, I hate the mostly text based dialogue and story and tend to get tired/bored because of it.

 

IMHO, just because the format and gameplay are a little more retro/throwback it doesn't mean you have to exclude modern conveniences like voice acting.

[legend]

16 minutes ago, Dexterryu said:

As someone that played several of the games in the OP but only one sequel (Divinity 2). The reason being is that while I enjoy the worlds, exploration, and gameplay of PoE and Shadowrun, I hate the mostly text based dialogue and story and tend to get tired/bored because of it.

 

IMHO, just because the format and gameplay are a little more retro/throwback it doesn't mean you have to exclude modern conveniences like voice acting.

 

FWIW, PoE2 is fully voiced except for the "story book" elements (and some of them are voiced too)

[Keyser_Soze]

DOSEE is fully voiced too (unfortunately)

[legend]

36 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

DOSEE is fully voiced too (unfortunately)

 

I suddenly have an urge to buy some cheese.

[XxEvil AshxX]

On 8/2/2018 at 10:49 AM, SFLUFAN said:

Tyranny and Shadowrun haven't, but Divinity: Original Sin/Pillars of Eternity/Wasteland 2/Torment: Tides of Numenera were ported to consoles where they faded into obscurity. 

 

I have no idea how Dragon Age: Origins did on the consoles, but I think we can surmise based on how completely different Dragon Age II and Dragon Age: Inquisition were that EA felt it needed to radically change to suit that market.

 

Dragon Age on consoles wasn't much different than the other two on console, except for the fact that you could pause the combat to issue commands. It did not have the top down CRPG camera view like the PC version.

[Dexterryu]

On 8/3/2018 at 3:37 PM, legend said:

 

FWIW, PoE2 is fully voiced except for the "story book" elements (and some of them are voiced too)

Thanks for the heads up. I'll look into it knowing that.