Nintendo According to Leaks: Xenoblade Chronicles DE dynamic resolution revealed: Handheld = 378p/540p Docked= 504p/720p

[Bacon]

[crispy4000]

Sounds roughly the same as Xenoblade 2.  But turning down that aggressive sharpness filter is a welcome inclusion.  Hopefully DF comes out with a report that resolution drops are rare.

 

It’s sad that some people might pass on this game for the first time just because of this.  We really need that Switch revision.  It’s strange that Monolith did crazy things with X on Wii U and the first game on Wii, but seems to have stumbled relatively with Switch hardware.

 

I’m still waiting to play Torna, holding out hope.

[AbsolutSurgen]

[gamer.tv]

All this talk of Xenoblade Chronicles has me sorely tempted to re-download the game to my Wii U, but then I remember how horrific I found the side quest markers and that I'm stuck on a boss battle where I'm too weak to beat it and to lost to work out how to get better.

[Zaku3]

38 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

Sounds roughly the same as Xenoblade 2.  But turning down that aggressive sharpness filter is a welcome inclusion.  Hopefully DF comes out with a report that resolution drops are rare.

 

It’s sad that some people might pass on this game for the first time just because of this.  We really need that Switch revision.  It’s strange that Monolith did crazy things with X on Wii U and the first game on Wii, but seems to have stumbled relatively with Switch hardware.

 

I’m still waiting to play Torna, holding out hope.

Docked only. 

[Brian]

As a handheld only Switch user, this is extremely disappointing especially since I already preordered by using my last voucher.  I had to quit XC2 because I couldn’t handle the resolution changes as I played. It gave me a headache. I hope it isn’t that bad. 

[EternallDarkness]

disappointing to hear, but I have no doubt I'll end up buying it for the third time 

[Xbob42]

I went through this game and X before XC2 came out and I still gotta say: Dunno what the hell all the hype was about. The combat system was lame, the side quests were abysmal, and the main story was pretty interesting but nothing mind blowing. It felt like you were playing a weird prototype for a middling MMO. I'm still trying to figure out how any piece of that puzzle resulted in it being a lot of peoples' "favorite RPG of all time." Was it just because the Wii had so few good RPGs? It all felt like such a stark and dramatic step back from Xenogears or even Xenosaga.

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, Zaku3 said:

Docked only. 

That’s mostly how I played Xenoblade 2. Sharpening filter was more tolerable there.

[crispy4000]

41 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

I went through this game and X before XC2 came out and I still gotta say: Dunno what the hell all the hype was about. The combat system was lame, the side quests were abysmal, and the main story was pretty interesting but nothing mind blowing. It felt like you were playing a weird prototype for a middling MMO. I'm still trying to figure out how any piece of that puzzle resulted in it being a lot of peoples' "favorite RPG of all time." Was it just because the Wii had so few good RPGs? It all felt like such a stark and dramatic step back from Xenogears or even Xenosaga.

We’ve bounced back and forth in this before.  So this isn’t to convince you otherwise.  Mainly for others reading.
 

I’ve always found the gameplay great for the subtle twists (Shulk’s foresight and positional attacks, pretty much anything about the way Melia plays, etc) and some fantastic skill tree development and ability choice.  There’s a few things that later games improved on, especially X2’s (non-QTE) timing elements and button layout.  But they also lack the things that made the original’s combat its own thing.
 

I also liked the story more than any modern JRPG I’ve played.  I remember jumping into FF13 not long after this game and wishing the story was even half as well integrated.  The breadth of Xenoblade actually justifies the plot told.  I haven’t played Xenogears or Saga, but heard that Xenoblade was them scaling back a bit on convolution for the sake of not feeling suffocating, and with this being the end result, I can’t imagine that being the wrong decision.  They were already on the right track with BK Origins too.  To me, Xenoblade’s plot and characters are right up there with the likes of Chrono Trigger, FF7 and such.

 

I do hope they improve the side quest system.  It’s the sorest spot. More markers like Xenoblade 2 wouldn’t make the content that’s there better, but it would cut down on the the tedium a bit for those that don’t outright skip most of the quest log.  (Which is what most people already advise you do)

 

[Xbob42]

11 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

I also liked the story more than any modern JRPG I’ve played.  I remember jumping into FF13 not long after this game and wishing the story was even half as well integrated.

Ok. I get it now.

[crispy4000]

3 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

Ok. I get it now.

They’re polar opposites in some ways.  Just look at the towns.  LOL

 

Doesn’t take away anything from what Xenoblade accomplished, IMO.  It sticks the landing.

[Bacon]

The vistas/world, the music, and the story are the good things. Gameplay is shit. All the Xenoblade game have the worst combat I have ever played in a single player JRPG.

 

 

I really wish the Nopon weren't in the game. Shit like that is always my least favorite things about JPN games. Teddy and  Morgana are other examples. Basically mascot races or characters. The MH cats apply as well. Hate all that type of shit. 

[Chris-]

1 hour ago, Xbob42 said:

I went through this game and X before XC2 came out and I still gotta say: Dunno what the hell all the hype was about. The combat system was lame, the side quests were abysmal, and the main story was pretty interesting but nothing mind blowing. It felt like you were playing a weird prototype for a middling MMO. I'm still trying to figure out how any piece of that puzzle resulted in it being a lot of peoples' "favorite RPG of all time." Was it just because the Wii had so few good RPGs? It all felt like such a stark and dramatic step back from Xenogears or even Xenosaga.

 

*plays through hundreds of hours of content*

 

'Yeah man I dunno'

[CastlevaniaNut18]

2 minutes ago, Chris- said:

 

*plays through hundreds of hours of content*

 

'Yeah man I dunno'

Well, like, that's Xbob.

[Xbob42]

1 hour ago, Chris- said:

 

*plays through hundreds of hours of content*

 

'Yeah man I dunno'

An "argument" as tedious as Xenoblade's combat.

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, Bacon said:

Gameplay is shit. All the Xenoblade game have the worst combat I have ever played in a single player JRPG.

 

Disagree... with the exception of Mech battles in XBX.  They were so slow they ruined the whole fantasy of it for me and led me to quit near the end, because I pretty much had to be in one.

 

Still no where near the worst battle system I’ve encountered though.  Which for me is anything where enemies level with you, or old school FF where you ‘miss’ instead of attacking the next enemy.

 

Regular Xenoblade, I think it’s good.  Like I said earlier Shulk’s foresight and Melia’s abilities led to a lot of memorable and clutch-feeling boss battles for me. 

 

Xenoblade 2?  Also good, just a little too convoluted.  There’s too many things to juggle, but I like the very different ways you can game it with different builds.  Which you pretty much have to resort to with hidden bosses.

 

The more problematic ‘gameplay’ things for me aren’t the battles themselves, but the slightly overblown Materia-like crafting system in the first game, or the ways you acquired and leveled up Blades in the second.

[Bacon]

I mean, it IS the worst combat in I personally have played in a JRPG. I haven't played the any old JRPGs. Oldest I have played is FF7, but I did play the remakes of 3 and 4. At the very least it is the worst I have ever played out of any JRPG since the PS1 era. MMO combat is garbage outside of MMOs. 

[Xbob42]

As an MMO fan, I can confirm that MMO combat is also garbage in MMOs, but you kind of tolerate it, or used to tolerate it, because it was such a different game experience. It's why I think a lot of people tolerate Bethesda's absolutely abysmal combat: Even with better open world games, they're still not quite doing what Bethesda games do, not in the same way.

On the other hand, Xenoblade Chronicles was a very normal JRPG in most ways, so MMO combat just made it feel... lesser, to me. I know X is the black sheep of the 3, and while I've burned memories of most of the combat from that game out of my memory, I do remember overall liking the concept, the setting, and especially the ending a lot more than XC1. XC2 I took my own advice and just stopped playing like 10 hours in because it wasn't doing it for me. The combat seemed better but now the characters were Z-tier anime tropes and a RoboBoobLady, it was pushing anime stupidity levels that at some point I just can't deal with anymore. I think XC1 had the best immediate setting/theme, but as it went on, and was explained more (especially the ending, which I found silly) it lost its mystique and became less wondrous. XCX I felt the opposite, while I liked the concept from the get-go, the more that got explained, the more I liked it. Which brings up another issue: Padding. XCX had a really cool concept, but stretched like 3 hours of story over 40-50 hours of nothing happening, which kind of feels like a theme for these games.

I'm typically a big fan of JRPGs, and especially of exploration, but despite there being secret areas, they never felt rewarding in any of the games, it always just felt like I was crossing off a checklist or something. So one of the biggest selling points of all these games is something I actually didn't care for, and I went from exploring a ton in the first area of XC1, to by the end just mainlining everything because I had been burned so many times by trying to have fun finding secrets. Going back to Bethesda titles, if nothing else, THEY do rewarding exploration pretty damn well, with unique quests, interesting environmental storytelling, unique weapons, etc. XC1 was basically a kind of okay view (It was a Wii game, let's not forget) and some random crafting materials, same as you'd find walking all over the world. I'm fine with a cool view being a reward, but half the time you didn't even get that.

 

To be clear, this isn't me saying no one should play these games; so many claim XC1 to be their favorite RPG of all time that I figure there's a much better chance you'll like it better than I did, but I figured it doesn't hurt to have some less rosy opinions. I can wholeheartedly recommend Xenogears, though! Shame it never got a release outside of the PS1. Same with Xenosaga, although that one has some issues that I think were the starting point for many of my complaints in XC1 and beyond. Especially the padding.

[SaysWho?]

1 minute ago, Xbob42 said:

As an MMO fan, I can confirm that MMO combat is also garbage in MMOs, but you kind of tolerate it, or used to tolerate it, because it was such a different game experience. It's why I think a lot of people tolerate Bethesda's absolutely abysmal combat: Even with better open world games, they're still not quite doing what Bethesda games do, not in the same way.

On the other hand, Xenoblade Chronicles was a very normal JRPG in most ways, so MMO combat just made it feel... lesser, to me. I know X is the black sheep of the 3, and while I've burned memories of most of the combat from that game out of my memory, I do remember overall liking the concept, the setting, and especially the ending a lot more than XC1. XC2 I took my own advice and just stopped playing like 10 hours in because it wasn't doing it for me. The combat seemed better but now the characters were Z-tier anime tropes and a RoboBoobLady, it was pushing anime stupidity levels that at some point I just can't deal with anymore. I think XC1 had the best immediate setting/theme, but as it went on, and was explained more (especially the ending, which I found silly) it lost its mystique and became less wondrous. XCX I felt the opposite, while I liked the concept from the get-go, the more that got explained, the more I liked it. Which brings up another issue: Padding. XCX had a really cool concept, but stretched like 3 hours of story over 40-50 hours of nothing happening, which kind of feels like a theme for these games.

I'm typically a big fan of JRPGs, and especially of exploration, but despite there being secret areas, they never felt rewarding in any of the games, it always just felt like I was crossing off a checklist or something. So one of the biggest selling points of all these games is something I actually didn't care for, and I went from exploring a ton in the first area of XC1, to by the end just mainlining everything because I had been burned so many times by trying to have fun finding secrets. Going back to Bethesda titles, if nothing else, THEY do rewarding exploration pretty damn well, with unique quests, interesting environmental storytelling, unique weapons, etc. XC1 was basically a kind of okay view (It was a Wii game, let's not forget) and some random crafting materials, same as you'd find walking all over the world. I'm fine with a cool view being a reward, but half the time you didn't even get that.

 

As someone who's not played Xenoblade but played FF12 (which at the time, and I guess still, is considered to be the first FF with more MMO-like combat), how similar/different is it to FF12?

[Bacon]

XCX could have been one of the best MMOs I have ever played. Never beat it, but I thought the story, setting, and gameplay, was perfect for an MMO. 

[Xbob42]

2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

As someone who's not played Xenoblade but played FF12 (which at the time, and I guess still, is considered to be the first FF with more MMO-like combat), how similar/different is it to FF12?

Hmm... You can automate a lot of stuff in FF12, so if you automated a lot, it's very different. If you played it manually, it's kind of similar. It's MMO-like in that you kind of just try your best to position yourself to hit the enemy from the side or back, depending on the attack being used, while your character auto-attacks. You wait on cooldowns to use moves. I'm not even a fan of auto-attacks in MMOs, so I wasn't a big fan of it in FF12 or XC1.

4 minutes ago, Bacon said:

XCX could have been one of the best MMOs I have ever played. Never beat it, but I thought the story, setting, and gameplay, was perfect for an MMO. 

Oh man, that would've been a fantastic MMO!

[crispy4000]

You all don’t even mention the foresight mechanic, lol.  It’s as integral to the battle system as it is the plot.

 

We’re railing on X now, right?  Because if that was the topic, I’d be on the same page.  That game was a whole lot of wasted potential, as it doubled down on exactly what you all are complaining about in the first game.  There’s a literal quest board and grindy fetch quest shit is the whole schema for its progression.  They took out the interesting twists on combat for a system oriented around using a colored attack when you saw a colored text bubble.  And mounts.

[Keyser_Soze]

So it's a Wii game and they can't even get it to run at a proper resolution? Better stick to the dolphin version I guess!

[EternallDarkness]

21 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

So it's a Wii game and they can't even get it to run at a proper resolution? Better stick to the dolphin version I guess!

 

hey getting a game from 2 generations ago to run smoothly ain't easy! 

[Keyser_Soze]

19 minutes ago, EternallDarkness said:

 

hey getting a game from 2 generations ago to run smoothly ain't easy! 

 

Yeah, 2K games taught us that!

[Xbob42]

2 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

You all don’t even mention the foresight mechanic, lol.  It’s as integral to the battle system as it is the plot.

 

We’re still railing on Xenoblade 1 here on and not X, right?  Because if that was the topic here, I’d be on the same page.  That game was a whole lot of wasted potential, as it doubled down on exactly what you all are complaining about.  There’s a literal quest board and grindy fetch quest shit is the whole schema for its progression.  They took out the interesting twists on combat for a system oriented around using a colored attack when you saw a colored text bubble.  And mounts.

I barely remember the foresight mechanic and I beat the game not all that long ago. I think it was essentially just a telegraph mechanic, not too far removed from those big red circles warning you to get out of AOEs in MMOs, right? You'd get a flash of a monster doing some big move and then you had to react to it. I... think you could warn your friends, maybe?

[crispy4000]

33 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

I barely remember the foresight mechanic and I beat the game not all that long ago. I think it was essentially just a telegraph mechanic, not too far removed from those big red circles warning you to get out of AOEs in MMOs, right? You'd get a flash of a monster doing some big move and then you had to react to it.

Lots of games have enemies that telegraph attacks.  What XB does different is show you the exact outcome, including status effects and death, that would occur if you don’t act to stop it.   And you get a party bonus if you do change the future before the timer runs out.  So you have to chose whether to go for that or mitigate the damage.
 

It’s like Slay the Spire telling you what the enemy will do next, and if you’ll get hit with statuses.  Then you have to react accordingly the best you can with the hand you have. Sounds like a small change on the surface, but it totally changes the dynamic of how battles play out.  Similar story here.

[Xbob42]

I think it didn't have a big impact on me because it was always really easy to interrupt or change, at least from what I could remember, so it never felt very urgent or different.

[crispy4000]

15 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

I think it didn't have a big impact on me because it was always really easy to interrupt or change, at least from what I could remember, so it never felt very urgent or different.

Depends on how far you go often the beaten path.  Some of those hidden bosses are brutal.  And it’s not uncommon to fight special monsters that are several levels higher than you.

 

If you just try to beeline the game, I suppose it wouldn’t factor in as much.  But it’s also easier get lost or poke around in these games than standard JRPGs.  It fits the design.  And why it’s a little unfortunate the sequels dropped the visions.

[Xbob42]

I didn't go very far off the beaten path after the first few areas, because of what I said above about not finding the exploration rewarding or anything. I found plenty of super powerful monsters, but was never anywhere near strong enough to even stand a chance.

[Chris-]

On 5/25/2020 at 6:38 PM, Xbob42 said:

An "argument" as tedious as Xenoblade's combat.

 

I didn't mean that in the sense of 'hurrrrr you played it so its good', I mean it in the sense of...if you've played 100+ hours of something, you definitely 'know'. Not a whole lot of confusion or lack of clarity after that kind of time investment. That's like reading an 800 page book and saying, 'Maybe it's good? Hard to tell.'

[Xbob42]

15 minutes ago, Chris- said:

 

I didn't mean that in the sense of 'hurrrrr you played it so its good', I mean it in the sense of...if you've played 100+ hours of something, you definitely 'know'. Not a whole lot of confusion or lack of clarity after that kind of time investment. That's like reading an 800 page book and saying, 'Maybe it's good? Hard to tell.'

The part I didn't know was what all the hype was about. Game seemed competent, but to be "favorite RPG of all time" for so many confounds me. Maybe others thought the setting or the ending were way cooler than I did? Or liked the characters more? For me it just seemed like a mostly typical JRPG that followed almost every trope including mascot characters with annoying speech patterns and everything. Not bad, since I play tons of JRPGs like that and while I'd like more originality I'm not complaining about those elements, I just don't see the part that blew everyone away.

[crispy4000]

For me it goes back first to some of the things I loved about Skies of Arcadia.  A strong sense of exploration and adventure, great music, fleshed out towns, challenging bosses, etc.

 

The plot is much better than Skies though.  I thought the overarching concept of the warring titans and the worlds on them is brilliant; it was superbly executed for the hardware too. Characters motivations feel earned, even the dumb token trope ones.  The politics in the game are fun.  The Sands of Time-esque visions are neat.  And the story leaves just enough ambiguous or morally grey at the right times.  It does gets nutty near the end, but like a lot of the best JRPGs, it doesn’t simply slap you with it, but builds towards its twists unpretentiously.  To me, it feels opposite to the ways FF7R goes off the rails.

 

Xenoblade 2 sometimes gets the balance right too.  The problem is that it turns up the obnoxious shit too much and for too long.  The character design reflects it too.  Also the first few hours are just *yawn*.  Still a great game on the whole though.  Just not as vital as the first.

 

[EternallDarkness]

13 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

For me it goes back first to some of the things I loved about Skies of Arcadia.  A strong sense of exploration and adventure, great music, fleshed out towns, challenging bosses, etc.

 

The plot is much better than Skies though.  I thought the overarching concept of the warring titans and the worlds on them is brilliant; it was superbly executed for the hardware too. Characters motivations feel earned, even the dumb token trope ones.  The politics in the game are fun.  The Sands of Time-esque visions are neat.  And the story leaves just enough ambiguous or morally grey at the right times.  It does gets nutty near the end, but like a lot of the best JRPGs, it doesn’t simply slap you with it, but builds towards its twists unpretentiously.  To me, it feels opposite to the ways FF7R goes off the rails.

 

Xenoblade 2 sometimes gets the balance right too.  The problem is that it turns up the obnoxious shit too much and for too long.  The character design reflects it too.  Also the first few hours are just *yawn*.  Still a great game on the whole though.  Just not as vital as the first.

 

 

I'd love a Skies port to the switch...IF they toned down the random encounter rate.