Supreme Court appears likely to allow public funding for religious schools

[Jason]

Such a ruling could affect laws or constitutional provisions in 37 states that currently bar public funding for schools and churches.

[GeneticBlueprint]

My knee-jerk reaction is to be outraged. But, if the schools meet standards that any other school would have to meet to get public funding then I can't get too upset.

[Guest]

The state shouldn’t be able to discriminate against a school based on its religious affiliation. Certainly you could have accreditation standards and such.

[Iculus]

11 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

My knee-jerk reaction is to be outraged. But, if the schools meet standards that any other school would have to meet to get public funding then I can't get too upset.

Sure, but what about non-christian private schools? Are the Christian schools going to stop charging tuition? I'm not super concerned with the religious aspect of this. I'm assuming that if you send your kid there, then you know what your getting into. But this, along with charter schools/school choice is only going to further water down public school funding.

[GeneticBlueprint]

2 minutes ago, Iculus said:

Sure, but what about non-christian private schools? Are the Christian schools going to stop charging tuition? I'm not super concerned with the religious aspect of this. I'm assuming that if you send your kid there, then you know what your getting into. But this, along with charter schools/school choice is only going to further water down public school funding.

 

I'd imagine that non-Christian private schools would be eligible for the same funding. I don't think this case before SCOTUS is saying "Do we give public money to schools?" but rather "Can the state say 'no' based on the school's religious stance when they apply to receive public money?"

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Gross.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

 

I'd imagine that non-Christian private schools would be eligible for the same funding. I don't think this case before SCOTUS is saying "Do we give public money to schools?" but rather "Can the state say 'no' based on the school's religious stance when they apply to receive public money?"

The scholarship program explicitly denied parents the use of the scholarship funds to help attend a religiously affiliated school. They could only use the funds for a secular private school.

[Iculus]

2 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

The scholarship program explicitly denied parents the use of the scholarship funds to help attend a religiously affiliated school. They could only use the funds for a secular private school.

In the article Kavanaugh mentions protestant and Jewish schools, but give me a break. The "they will not replace us" crowd will find a way. 

 

If a school wants public money then it needs to completely remove admission requirements, not charge tuition, and not expell young people for wearing rainbow shirts in birthday pictures. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

The state should not be paying tuition for any private school, full stop

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Why should schools that plainly discriminate get government funding? What fucking world do some of you live in?

[Bacon]

[sexy_shapiro]

The Christian high school I went to would have expelled me if I had come out at that time.

[GeneticBlueprint]

12 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Why should schools that plainly discriminate get government funding? What fucking world do some of you live in?

 

It's not a matter of should. That's not the question this case is asking.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Why should schools that plainly discriminate get government funding? What fucking world do some of you live in?

The requirements had nothing to do with whether or not the schools discriminated in anyway, just whether or not they held a religious affiliation.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Silly me, that makes it all okay.

 

Private schools shouldn't get government funding. That's what it boils down to.

[GeneticBlueprint]

3 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Silly me, that makes it all okay.

 

Private schools shouldn't get government funding. That's what it boils down to.

 

I agree with this. But, again, the case is not about that question. The case is: private schools currently do get public assistance (or their students get scholarships or state assistance etc). Can a state government deny that assistance based on its Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or Atheist stance?

[Iculus]

2 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Silly me, that makes it all okay.

 

Private schools shouldn't get government funding. That's what it boils down to.

Yep. If they want to ditch admission requirements, tuition, and adopt their district's conduct policies then fine. If not, then keep charging your students 11k/year and make up the difference with whatever weirdos donate to specific schools. 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

1 minute ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

 

I agree with this. But, again, the case is not about that question. The case is: private schools currently do get public assistance (or their students get scholarships or state assistance etc). Can a state government deny that assistance based on its Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or Atheist stance?

The whole thing is bonkers. But I'd argue that if a school discriminates, regardless of their affiliation, they shouldn't get public funds, if we're narrowing it down to that. I don't feel comfortable with any religiously affiliated school getting public funds for that matter. You want your kid to learn religion? Take them to church or mosque or synagogue.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Silly me, that makes it all okay.

 

Private schools shouldn't get government funding. That's what it boils down to.

Silly us to have actually read the article and note that your point had nothing to do with the issue at hand 

 

5 minutes ago, Iculus said:

Yep. If they want to ditch admission requirements, tuition, and adopt their district's conduct policies then fine. If not, then keep charging your students 11k/year and make up the difference with whatever weirdos donate to specific schools. 

 

Why take issue with admission requirements? In our local school district, we have public schools that have admission requirements. I don’t know why you think this is a problem.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

I read the article, too, and I stand by what I said. 
 

shit, it’s not like I’m the only one here who said it or something similar. 

[Iculus]

1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

Silly us to have actually read the article and note that your point had nothing to do with the issue at hand 

 

 

Why take issue with admission requirements? In our local school district, we have public schools that have admission requirements. I don’t know why you think this is a problem.

Because I've never heard of such a thing. We have specialized charter schools (art, stem etc.) that require students to maintain a certain GPA, but they don't blanket deny anyone from attending. Also, most of the time religious schools have ridiculous "moral" guidelines. Those are fine if they remain private, but I have zero interest in paying taxes to a school that refuses to take students with 2 moms.

[GeneticBlueprint]

1 minute ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

The whole thing is bonkers. But I'd argue that if a school discriminates, regardless of their affiliation, they shouldn't get public funds, if we're narrowing it down to that. I don't feel comfortable with any religiously affiliated school getting public funds for that matter. You want your kid to learn religion? Take them to church or mosque or synagogue.

 

Definitely. In principle I agree with all of your quote. And I don't think private schools should get public funding (that's the fucking definition). Which would automatically eliminate religious schools.

 

Also, I think it's worth mentioning that just because a school is Christian (or whatever) doesn't mean that it discriminates.

 

2 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Silly us to have actually read the article and note that your point had nothing to do with the issue at hand 

 

 

Why take issue with admission requirements? In our local school district, we have public schools that have admission requirements. I don’t know why you think this is a problem.

 

What kind of admission requirements do you see in your area? I'm not aware of anything like that here, but my kids aren't in school yet.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

I’m not going to make the claim that every single Christian school discriminates, but it does seem to be a common theme with their “conduct codes.”

 

Fuck them. I can’t believe this is the world we’re living in. 

[Anathema-]

I mean, this isn't a federal law we're talking about.  State governments still mostly function. Would it really be that hard to pass a new law that denies public funds to schools that do or don't do X/Y/Z?

[Massdriver]

I like charter schools existing. There are a lot of school districts I'm aware of that have had over 10 years to get their shit together and parents have no options except to send their kids to a private or charter school. However, I don't like the idea of private religious schools getting public money because tax dollars shouldn't be used to push a certain religious viewpoint where we can avoid it.

[Firewithin]

1 hour ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Gross.

Bingo

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

What kind of admission requirements do you see in your area? I'm not aware of anything like that here, but my kids aren't in school yet.

We have a couple of high schools that are part of the school district but have pretty rigorous academic requirements. But it seems @Iculus was talking more about personal conduct/morality pledges/etc.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

9 minutes ago, Anathema- said:

I mean, this isn't a federal law we're talking about.  State governments still mostly function. Would it really be that hard to pass a new law that denies public funds to schools that do or don't do X/Y/Z?

In many states? Yes. Duh. 

[GeneticBlueprint]

5 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

We have a couple of high schools that are part of the school district but have pretty rigorous academic requirements. But it seems @Iculus was talking more about personal conduct/morality pledges/etc.

 

Gotcha. Colleges have academic requirements, but it's still weird for me to think about a high school having them.

[osxmatt]

I read the article a few times, and I'm still trying to understand exactly how the program works, and how money changes hands. From the article:

 

Quote

The case comes from Montana, which established a program in 2015 to provide a tax credit of up to $150 a year for people and businesses that donate to private schools. The organizations that receive the contributions then give financial aid to parents, who decide which private schools their children should attend.

 

 

So I (as an individual or business) decide to donate $150 dollars to a private school. That private school then accumulates the various amounts of donation money, and uses it to provide financial aid to parents whose children attend that school. The original individual or business then claims up to a $150 tax credit at the end of the year, for their donation.

 

Am I understanding it correctly?

[skillzdadirecta]

20 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

 

Gotcha. Colleges have academic requirements, but it's still weird for me to think about a high school having them.

I went to a magnet high school and it definitely had academic requirements.

[Anathema-]

36 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

In many states? Yes. Duh. 

 

Well no not duh, if I agree that it's a weird law and I could accept a fair argument that it's unconstitutional -- if a better, more appropriate, constitutional law can easily take its place -- then I don't understand the gnashing of teeth. SCOUTS could overturn Roe all they want if I knew Congress would immediately turn around and legislatively legalize the practice. 

[GeneticBlueprint]

41 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I went to a magnet high school and it definitely had academic requirements.

What's a magnet HS?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

45 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

What's a magnet HS?

It's a public high school that has a specialized program or programs that acts as a "magnet" for students outside of that particular school district to attend.

[skillzdadirecta]

55 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

What's a magnet HS?

 

18 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

It's a public high school that has a specialized program or programs that acts as a "magnet" for students outside of that particular school district to attend.

 

In my case you had to live in the district (or at least have an address there) but you had to take a test to get into the school and maintain a certain GPA in order to stay there. The idea was that it would take the best and the brightest from the city and prep them for college. Magnet schools have proven to be more successful than charter schools but fell out of favor for some reason. My City had four magnet high schools I believe.