~*Official Prime Minister Liz Truss Thread of Anglo-Saxon Embarrassment*~

[Jason]

21 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said:

Or he can hold on long enough to suspend Parliament and let No Deal happen.

 

11 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

Which is probably the most likely outcome.

 

Suspending Parliament is...what, Congressional recess? 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

Suspending Parliament is...what, Congressional recess? 

Proroguing parliament: what does it mean and can Boris do it?

[marioandsonic]

1 hour ago, SFLUFAN said:

This is the composition of the UK parliament at this moment:

 

I assume the Conservative party is the one in favor of Brexit, but they cant agree on how to actually go through with it?

[Jason]

 

[CitizenVectron]

If there is another election then Johnson will somehow get an even larger majority (Con+Brexit) because the UK is really dumb.

[JosephManderley]

There are rumors of up to a dozen pro-EU Conservative MPs about to resign from the party when Parliament returns in September.  Some are likely to sit as Independent MPs, but others may switch to the Liberal Democrats.  Jo Swinson, the Lib Dem leader has said she has spoken to around 6 Tories about them joining.  A single defector wipes out Bojo’s tiny majority.

 

Dr. Philip Lee could be the first of them.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-defection-lib-dems-brexit-boris-johnson-majority-phillip-lee-a9030576.html

 

https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/02/tory-mp-threatens-quit-wipe-boris-johnsons-majority-10505532/

 

 

[marioandsonic]

So there's no parliament until September? 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

8 minutes ago, marioandsonic said:

So there's no parliament until September? 

Correct - they're on summer recess.

[JosephManderley]

6 minutes ago, marioandsonic said:

So there's no parliament until September? 

Yep, we begged the EU for an extension until end of October, to sort ourselves out.   We are using the time wisely, Parliament is on summer break until the start of September, briefly returning, before closing again for 2 weeks for Party Conferences...   You couldn’t make this shit up, it is crazy!

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

3 hours ago, JosephManderley said:

There are rumors of up to a dozen pro-EU Conservative MPs about to resign from the party when Parliament returns in September.  Some are likely to sit as Independent MPs, but others may switch to the Liberal Democrats.  Jo Swinson, the Lib Dem leader has said she has spoken to around 6 Tories about them joining.  A single defector wipes out Bojo’s tiny majority.

 

Dr. Philip Lee could be the first of them.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-defection-lib-dems-brexit-boris-johnson-majority-phillip-lee-a9030576.html

 

https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/02/tory-mp-threatens-quit-wipe-boris-johnsons-majority-10505532/

It wouldn't surprise me if the Tories from Scotland don't side with the "rebels" either.

 

BoJo could well be on his way to having the shortest tenure of any UK PM.

[CitizenVectron]

10 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

It wouldn't surprise me if the Tories from Scotland don't side with the "rebels" either.

 

BoJo could well be on his way to having the shortest tenure of any UK PM.

 

OR, they defect but don't vote against him on a confidence motion, keeping the UK in an even WEIRDER limbo.

[Jwheel86]

19 hours ago, marioandsonic said:

I assume the Conservative party is the one in favor of Brexit, but they cant agree on how to actually go through with it?

Basically a third of Conservative MPs are Remainers and a third of Labour MPs are Leavers, so it's complicated. Lib Dems are the only 'major' party that are fully for a second vote while Labour's position isn't really clear. The Conservatives also have a hard Brexit faction that are totally down for No Deal, while other Conservative MPs want a Deal. 

[Jwheel86]

6 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

OR, they defect but don't vote against him on a confidence motion, keeping the UK in an even WEIRDER limbo.

 

Because Corbyn.

[JosephManderley]

8 hours ago, SFLUFAN said:

It wouldn't surprise me if the Tories from Scotland don't side with the "rebels" either.

 

BoJo could well be on his way to having the shortest tenure of any UK PM.

I really struggle to see a way of BoJo getting through this mess and coming out the other side as  PM.

 

He has a ‘Working Majority’ of 1, thanks to 10 votes from the DUP.  His party is split into 3 factions.  Firstly, ardent Brexiters who will go ballistic if we don’t leave on Oct 31st.  Secondly, Remainers / Soft Brexiters who will seek to bring him down rather than  allow us to crash out on Oct 31st.  The remainder are somewhere in the middle, being pressured from both sides, and who frankly just want the whole mess to disappear.

 

So could he get a deal through Parliament?  Almost certainly no.

 

The DUP will not vote for the current ‘deal’ on offer (The one May repeatedly failed to get accepted) as they refuse anything that sees Northern Ireland treated differently from the rest of the UK, and the current deal keeps Northern Ireland in a Customs Union with the EU to avoid a ‘Hard border’, between The North and the Republic.  BoJo needs to get this clause (known as the Backstop) removed to stand any hope of getting the deal through.  The EU refuse to drop it, as according to the Good Friday Agreement, a treaty that has brought decades of relative peace to Northern Ireland, there can be no Hard Border on the island of Ireland.  The delicious irony of the situation?  The Backstop was originally suggested by the British Government! 

 

The only hope for Boris is a snap election to try and get a majority of 30+ so that he can get No Deal through Parliament.

 

The problem is, that if he campaigns on a No Deal Brexit, whilst he may gain a few seats in Leave voting areas of the East and North of England, he will completely alienate voters (and his own party leadership) in Scotland and Wales.  The Conservatives would also risk losing a large number of seats they currently hold in the South, where people voted to remain, to the Liberal Democrats.  Some polling experts even put Uxbridge, BoJo’s own seat, at risk under these circumstances!

 

So then he campaigns on delaying Brexit, to get a better deal?  He has staked his political career on the UK leaving on Oct 31st.  ‘We are leaving on Oct 31st, do or die!’, in his words... Not sure how he backtracks from that and maintains any credibility to be honest?   But assuming he did, the Hardcore Brexiter wing of his party would scream Betrayal, and enough Conservative voters would Switch to the Brexit party, robbing him of any chance of a majority.  Because of Britain’s ‘First Past the Post’ electoral system, the Brexit Party would be unlikely even in these circumstances, to gain enough seats to prop BoJo up in a coalition with a majority big enough to get the job done.

 

So in summary...  Boris is fucked, The UK is fucked,  I have no idea how we get out of this mess.

 

All you Americans have to do, is vote out Trump, and things would soon go back to pretty much normal.  I can’t see how the UK will ever be the same again.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

6 hours ago, JosephManderley said:

All you Americans have to do, is vote out Trump, and things would soon go back to pretty much normal

I mean not really

[Jwheel86]

6 hours ago, JosephManderley said:

I really struggle to see a way of BoJo getting through this mess and coming out the other side as  PM.

 

He has a ‘Working Majority’ of 1, thanks to 10 votes from the DUP.  His party is split into 3 factions.  Firstly, ardent Brexiters who will go ballistic if we don’t leave on Oct 31st.  Secondly, Remainers / Soft Brexiters who will seek to bring him down rather than  allow us to crash out on Oct 31st.  The remainder are somewhere in the middle, being pressured from both sides, and who frankly just want the whole mess to disappear.

 

So could he get a deal through Parliament?  Almost certainly no.

 

The DUP will not vote for the current ‘deal’ on offer (The one May repeatedly failed to get accepted) as they refuse anything that sees Northern Ireland treated differently from the rest of the UK, and the current deal keeps Northern Ireland in a Customs Union with the EU to avoid a ‘Hard border’, between The North and the Republic.  BoJo needs to get this clause (known as the Backstop) removed to stand any hope of getting the deal through.  The EU refuse to drop it, as according to the Good Friday Agreement, a treaty that has brought decades of relative peace to Northern Ireland, there can be no Hard Border on the island of Ireland.  The delicious irony of the situation?  The Backstop was originally suggested by the British Government! 

 

The only hope for Boris is a snap election to try and get a majority of 30+ so that he can get No Deal through Parliament.

 

The problem is, that if he campaigns on a No Deal Brexit, whilst he may gain a few seats in Leave voting areas of the East and North of England, he will completely alienate voters (and his own party leadership) in Scotland and Wales.  The Conservatives would also risk losing a large number of seats they currently hold in the South, where people voted to remain, to the Liberal Democrats.  Some polling experts even put Uxbridge, BoJo’s own seat, at risk under these circumstances!

 

So then he campaigns on delaying Brexit, to get a better deal?  He has staked his political career on the UK leaving on Oct 31st.  ‘We are leaving on Oct 31st, do or die!’, in his words... Not sure how he backtracks from that and maintains any credibility to be honest?   But assuming he did, the Hardcore Brexiter wing of his party would scream Betrayal, and enough Conservative voters would Switch to the Brexit party, robbing him of any chance of a majority.  Because of Britain’s ‘First Past the Post’ electoral system, the Brexit Party would be unlikely even in these circumstances, to gain enough seats to prop BoJo up in a coalition with a majority big enough to get the job done.

 

So in summary...  Boris is fucked, The UK is fucked,  I have no idea how we get out of this mess.

 

All you Americans have to do, is vote out Trump, and things would soon go back to pretty much normal.  I can’t see how the UK will ever be the same again.

 

Labour is fucked too since if in a General Election if they call for a People's Vote they'd lose seats too, if they don't they won't be taken seriously. The only hope is if they can go full Remain, sacrifice the Leave seats, and hope Lib Dems pick up enough Remain Conservative seats to form a Coalition with Labour. 

[JosephManderley]

2 hours ago, Jwheel86 said:

 

Labour is fucked too since if in a General Election if they call for a People's Vote they'd lose seats too, if they don't they won't be taken seriously. The only hope is if they can go full Remain, sacrifice the Leave seats, and hope Lib Dems pick up enough Remain Conservative seats to form a Coalition with Labour. 

I think Corbyn and his inner circle want Brexit to happen and the Tories to be seen as owning it.  Then when the economy tanks they think they will win power with a fat majority.  Problem with that is that the country will be pretty much bankrupt, and there will be no money for Corbyn’s well-meaning reforms.  Labour would inherit a corpse.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

43 minutes ago, JosephManderley said:

I think Corbyn and his inner circle want Brexit to happen and the Tories to be seen as owning it.  Then when the economy tanks they think they will win power with a fat majority.  Problem with that is that the country will be pretty much bankrupt, and there will be no money for Corbyn’s well-meaning reforms.  Labour would inherit a corpse.

This was the ultimate irony:  May was a Remainer who was in charge of a party of (largely) Leavers while Corbyn is a Leaver who is in charge of a party of (largely) Remainers.

 

To this day, I'm fairly certain that Corbyn voted Leave.  He's a fairly "old school Lefty" who views the EU as a "neoliberal" institution which serves as a tool for the interests of capital rather than those of labor.  After seeing what the EU did to Greece, it's hard to disagree with that notion.

[JosephManderley]

The main message of the Leave campaign was ‘Taking back control’, of our laws, and of our borders.

 

Thing is, an isolated Britain has very little clout in any trade negotiations, and we are already seeing signs that we will have less ‘control’ after Brexit than before...

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/india-in-no-rush-to-sign-a-post-brexit-trade-deal-with-britain-2018-4?IR=T  India pushing for easier immigration to the UK in return for trade deal.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/us-says-no-free-trade-deal-with-uk-unless-digital-tax-scrapped-report-11776240. The USA trying to force the UK to drop a new digital tax... or no trade deal.

 

The World knows a post-Brexit Britain will be weak and desperate, and we are going to get our pants pulled down in any deals we make as a result.

 

Taking back control?  Riiiiight.

 

 

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Boris Johnson has no intention of renegotiating Brexit deal, EU told

Quote

Boris Johnson has no intention of renegotiating the withdrawal agreement and a no-deal Brexit is his “central scenario”, European diplomats have been told, amid hardening evidence in Westminster that the government is expecting to crash out of the EU.

 

That's quite alright, Boris - the EU doesn't have that intention either.

[marioandsonic]

HARD BREXIT TIME

[CitizenVectron]

9 hours ago, marioandsonic said:

HARD BREXIT TIME

 

More likely that his government falls.

[marioandsonic]

3 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

More likely that his government falls.

So he and his party will get voted out, and the new party in charge will halt Brexit?  Or will Brexit happen no matter what at this point?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

13 minutes ago, marioandsonic said:

So he and his party will get voted out, and the new party in charge will halt Brexit?  Or will Brexit happen no matter what at this point?

Realistically, it's happening no matter what - the question is whether it will be  no-deal hard Brexit or a delayed one with a deal.

[Greatoneshere]

2 hours ago, SFLUFAN said:

Realistically, it's happening no matter what - the question is whether it will be  no-deal hard Brexit or a delayed one with a deal.

 

I think there's every possibility the entire thing gets reversed, but I don't think it's likely. But it's possible.

[JosephManderley]

Looks like there is a plan being hatched to set up a cross party ‘unity government’ opposed to no deal. This government would delay Brexit and promptly call a general election.  

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/remainer-mps-plot-national-unity-government-report-2019-8?IR=T

 

https://www.ft.com/content/00e75fb4-b793-11e9-8a88-aa6628ac896c

 

 

 

 

[Chairslinger]

17 hours ago, marioandsonic said:

HARD BREXIT TIME

 

 

I am so hard(Brexit) right now....

 

 

 

30 minutes ago, JosephManderley said:

Looks like there is a plan being hatched to set up a cross party ‘unity government’ opposed to no deal. This government would delay Brexit and promptly call a general election.  

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/remainer-mps-plot-national-unity-government-report-2019-8?IR=T

 

https://www.ft.com/content/00e75fb4-b793-11e9-8a88-aa6628ac896c

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

"In terms of a strict reading of the legislation, Boris is not required to resign. It is completely silent on all of this," she said. "The onus is on the incumbent prime minister — they get to choose whether they resign. If they do not it is hard for a new government to be formed without dragging the Queen into politics.

 

 

So that seems weird. As someone who doesn't know British parliamentary procedure very well Boris refusing to step down strikes me as very....

 

[CitizenVectron]

51 minutes ago, Chairslinger said:

 

 

I am so hard(Brexit) right now....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So that seems weird. As someone who doesn't know British parliamentary procedure very well Boris refusing to step down strikes me as very....

 

 

 

That's a bunch of bullshit, really. All they need to do is defeat Johnson in a confidence vote and then go to the Queen and say "instead of calling a general election, please give us the chance to form government, as we believe we have the confidence of the House." If they can convince her, then they can appoint a new PM (whomever the new "unity" party/government selects as leader) and then they govern.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Nicola Sturgeon warns Boris Johnson not to block independence vote

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/05/sturgeon-warns-boris-johnson-not-to-block-independence-vote?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Recession fears grow as UK economy shrinks on back of Brexit chaos

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/aug/09/uk-economy-contracts-on-back-of-brexit-uncertainty?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

[CitizenVectron]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/queen-our-politicians-cant-govern-twjmp657f

 

Queen believes the current political class is unable to govern.

 

Quote

The Queen has privately expressed her disappointment in the current political class and its “inability to govern”, The Sunday Times can reveal.

 

There is an obvious solution: Retake control of government, reconstitute the British Empire, and as your first act retake control of Hong Kong.

[mclumber1]

27 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/queen-our-politicians-cant-govern-twjmp657f

 

Queen believes the current political class is unable to govern.

 

 

There is an obvious solution: Retake control of government, reconstitute the British Empire, and as your first act retake control of Hong Kong.

 

The sun will no longer set on the British Empire!

[Zaku3]

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/queen-our-politicians-cant-govern-twjmp657f

 

Queen believes the current political class is unable to govern.

 

 

There is an obvious solution: Retake control of government, reconstitute the British Empire, and as your first act retake control of Hong Kong.

 

Ill take the job of PM if I get to reform the Empire. Going to use the best words, reinforce the Royal Navy with the biggest ships, just all around winning.

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, Zaku3 said:

 

Ill take the job of PM if I get to reform the Empire. Going to use the best words, reinforce the Royal Navy with the biggest ships, just all around winning.

 

#MEGA

[Anathema-]

Imagine fucking up your job so badly the Queen has to get involved. Christ Almighty.