Television Cowboy Bebop (Netflix, November 19), update: aaaaaaaand it's been cancelled

[elbobo]

This is going to be the pettiest compliant but I hate the face of the guy that plays Vicious. 

[skillzdadirecta]

12 hours ago, Rodimus said:

I'm in the middle of the live action series. I a big fan of the original. I am so far really missing Ed. I also noticed that live action less than half the number of episodes as the anime but about twice as long. I'm curious if this is going to be dragged out into a 2nd season.

Oh they definitely plan on doing multiple seasons.

[skillzdadirecta]

13 hours ago, Reputator said:

Haven't watched the show yet, but seriously? 

 

 

Why is this an issue?

[Reputator]

10 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Why is this an issue?

 

Because...could they not get someone that looks REMOTELY like the original character?

[Keyser_Soze]

12 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Why is this an issue?

 

I think the issue is that Gren is not actually a trans character but someone who took an experimental medication and ended up acquiring female features. The live action version seems to want to imply he was always a non-binary character or something.

[Reputator]

1 minute ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

I think the issue is that Gren is not actually a trans character but someone who took an experimental medication and ended up acquiring female features. The live action version seems to want to imply he was always a non-binary character or something.

 

As I recall, Faye couldn't tell anything was strange about them based on appearance until she saw them in the shower. It was then that what happened to them was revealed. It's been several years but I recall that being a significant plot point.

[Jason]

5 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

As I recall, Faye couldn't tell anything was strange about them based on appearance until she saw them in the shower. It was then that what happened to them was revealed. It's been several years but I recall that being a significant plot point.

 

  

11 hours ago, Jason said:

'Cowboy Bebop' actor explains how Gren is reimagined as nonbinary

EW.COM

---

Mason Alexander Park explains how Netflix's live-action 'Cowboy Bebop' reimagines Gren as nonbinary.

 

 

Quote

"I think everybody approached the reimagining of this character as an opportunity to right some blunders that were just a product of their time or a product of misinformation," Park says. "You can see in the anime that Gren's whole character arc is so heavily influenced by The Crying Game, which to today's audiences doesn't necessarily hold up as the most positive or well-handled trans storytelling."

 

[Kal-El814]

They absolutely needed to change the trans panic / chick with dick "reveal" from the original show. Whether or not what they did "works..." I dunno, but I understand why they can't have a character undergo unwilling HRT and have another character react with shock (at best) or something that resembles disgust (at worst).

[Reputator]

1 minute ago, Kal-El814 said:

They absolutely needed to change the trans panic / chick with dick "reveal" from the original show. Whether or not what they did "works..." I dunno, but I understand why they can't have a character undergo unwilling HRT and have another character react with shock (at best) or something that resembles disgust (at worst).

 

I get where you're coming from here. If we value messaging over trueness to the source, yeah I suppose the original story doesn't help social progress. I guess I don't really begrudge Netflix over veering towards modern sensibilities given the world we live in now.

[skillzdadirecta]

16 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

They absolutely needed to change the trans panic / chick with dick "reveal" from the original show. Whether or not what they did "works..." I dunno, but I understand why they can't have a character undergo unwilling HRT and have another character react with shock (at best) or something that resembles disgust (at worst).

Exactly.  I just saw that episode recently... Faye was pretty much disgusted when the reveal happened. When I saw that, I pretty much assumed this is how they would fix it in the live action series.  I'm only 3 episodes in and I haven’t seen more development with Gren, so I don't know how that storyline plays out, bit making the character fully nonbinary is not only timely,  it's the better choice and was an easy one. Such a weird thing to be up in arms over especially for a minor character that was only in one episode of the anime if I recall correctly. 

[Keyser_Soze]

But that's not really an issue, that she's shocked, you're not supposed to know, she doesn't know it's a real emotion not disgust.

But the representation in the live action version, nothing is a mystery, it's like a stereotypical drag queen type look but that's not who the character is.

[skillzdadirecta]

19 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

But that's not really an issue, that she's shocked, you're not supposed to know, she doesn't know it's a real emotion not disgust.

But the representation in the live action version, nothing is a mystery, it's like a stereotypical drag queen type look but that's not who the character is.

I literally just watched the episode last week... she's shocked and disgusted. Rewatch the episode and look at the expression on her face. And Gren was always somewhat androgynous even before the reveal. I haven't watched the live action episode dealing with them yet, but I can't imagine you lose much without that crying game moment. By making Gren a reoccurring character they've already added more depth than the anime had to the character who again,  was only in one episode. Who knew there were so many Gren fans out there that wanted an accurate representation of the character?!

[Jason]

40 minutes ago, Reputator said:

I get where you're coming from here. If we value messaging over trueness to the source, yeah I suppose the original story doesn't help social progress. I guess I don't really begrudge Netflix over veering towards modern sensibilities given the world we live in now.

 

It's not even messaging. Read the article I posted. Being "true" to the original story just wouldn't come across right today no matter how much they beat you over the head with the whole unwilling experiments angle--it's not really possible to be "true" to the source nowadays because as the new actor says it would just come across as a weird Crying Game callback to modern-day audiences.

 

Look at the female miniskirt uniforms in Star Trek TOS. In 1966 it was very clear to contemporary audiences that it was a pretty radical feminist statement to portray professional "military" women as not having to choose between their miniskirts and their careers. Whereas 50 years later we're so far past the mentality of that time period that it just comes across as exploitative of the actresses, and I don't think any amount of fourth wall breaking explanation would change that.

[Jason]

3 hours ago, elbobo said:

This is going to be the pettiest compliant but I hate the face of the guy that plays Vicious. 

[Keyser_Soze]

4 hours ago, elbobo said:

This is going to be the pettiest compliant but I hate the face of the guy that plays Vicious. 

 

 

[Keyser_Soze]

For everyone who said they wanted to see Ed on this show. Yikes

 

 

[silentbob]

Watched the 2nd episode tonight and liked it more then the first. I think a couple things helped me tonight enjoy it more. The strain of weed (green poison), watching it properly on a device that supports 4K viewing and having a set that also includes Dolby Vision. Things didn’t feel as cheap looking, sharpness actually helped that realism and the colour grading greatly improved. The description for Vicious above feels dead on for me. 

[Ghost_MH]

6 hours ago, elbobo said:

This is going to be the pettiest compliant but I hate the face of the guy that plays Vicious. 

 

I still have yet to get the chance to watch any of the live action series, but I do have to ask if he's actually... fleshed out. Like I know people liked him, but I always felt folks liked him for he carried a katana in a sci-fi because that's about as deep as the character ever got.

[Fizzzzle]

I haven't had a chance to watch the show yet, but the clips I've seen have given me strong Terry Gilliam vibes. By default meaning "not for everyone" to say the least.

[skillzdadirecta]

2 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

I still have yet to get the chance to watch any of the live action series, but I do have to ask if he's actually... fleshed out. Like I know people liked him, but I always felt folks liked him for he carried a katana in a sci-fi because that's about as deep as the character ever got.

Don't forget his weird assed bird. He's a little more fleshed out in this so far. I'm only three episodes in but his relationship with Julia is explored more already.

[Kal-El814]

4 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

I still have yet to get the chance to watch any of the live action series, but I do have to ask if he's actually... fleshed out. Like I know people liked him, but I always felt folks liked him for he carried a katana in a sci-fi because that's about as deep as the character ever got.

There’s more to him for sure, I dunno if it’s good. 
 

7 hours ago, Jason said:

 

It's not even messaging. Read the article I posted. Being "true" to the original story just wouldn't come across right today no matter how much they beat you over the head with the whole unwilling experiments angle--it's not really possible to be "true" to the source nowadays because as the new actor says it would just come across as a weird Crying Game callback to modern-day audiences.

 

Look at the female miniskirt uniforms in Star Trek TOS. In 1966 it was very clear to contemporary audiences that it was a pretty radical feminist statement to portray professional "military" women as not having to choose between their miniskirts and their careers. Whereas 50 years later we're so far past the mentality of that time period that it just comes across as exploitative of the actresses, and I don't think any amount of fourth wall breaking explanation would change that.

100% this. 
 

It was also always kind of weird that in a universe where Jet’s insistence on keeping a cybernetic arm is notable to Spike (they cannot routinely afford meat but Jet’s reasoning has nothing to do with money so he could presumably afford an organic replacement), someone with a feminine body having a penis shocks Faye. Not in an “oh you’re trans” way, but in a, “what the fuck” way. 

[elbobo]

6 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

For everyone who said they wanted to see Ed on this show. Yikes

 

 

 

I haven't got this far into the series but this is what I will now use as the absolute gold standard argument against staying as true to the original as possible when crossing mediums.

 

Ed was a very "cartoony" character in the anime and trying to do that in real life is just... well just watch that clip. The actress and wardrobe and everything are dead on and it is the most cringe inducing thing I've seen in a long time.

[Kal-El814]

1 hour ago, elbobo said:

 

I haven't got this far into the series but this is what I will now use as the absolute gold standard argument against staying as true to the original as possible when crossing mediums.

 

Ed was a very "cartoony" character in the anime and trying to do that in real life is just... well just watch that clip. The actress and wardrobe and everything are dead on and it is the most cringe inducing thing I've seen in a long time.

 

Some stuff you just can’t adapt. If you were going to make something like Love Hina into a live show, you couldn’t have Keitaro constantly pratfall into motorboating and groping the girls he lives with. That’s a non trivial part of the anime / manga but IRL it’s an actual crime so you can’t just film what was in print / on screen.

 

Having just rewatched the anime before this and having watched more episodes of the live show, I’m still blown away by how much the dialogue and tone on the live action flip between hitting the same notes and just completely missing them entirely to a huge degree.

[Keyser_Soze]

TIL @Kal-El814 watches Love Hina.

[Kal-El814]

7 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

TIL @Kal-El814 watches Love Hina.

 

I have a soft spot for that and Ranma 1/2 even though everyone is behaving in wildly unacceptable ways all the time.

[Ghost_MH]

1 minute ago, Kal-El814 said:

I have a soft spot for that and Ranma 1/2 even though everyone is behaving in wildly unacceptable ways all the time.

 

Go watch Girlfriend, Girlfriend if you liked Love Hina. Same sort of stupid hijinks, but everyone acknowledges how stupid it is. Also, the author created the series specifically because he thinks it's bullshit that these harem series don't end with an actual harem.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

On 11/21/2021 at 11:09 PM, Jason said:

 

It's not even messaging. Read the article I posted. Being "true" to the original story just wouldn't come across right today no matter how much they beat you over the head with the whole unwilling experiments angle--it's not really possible to be "true" to the source nowadays because as the new actor says it would just come across as a weird Crying Game callback to modern-day audiences.

 

Look at the female miniskirt uniforms in Star Trek TOS. In 1966 it was very clear to contemporary audiences that it was a pretty radical feminist statement to portray professional "military" women as not having to choose between their miniskirts and their careers. Whereas 50 years later we're so far past the mentality of that time period that it just comes across as exploitative of the actresses, and I don't think any amount of fourth wall breaking explanation would change that.

One of the few great things in S1 TNG was seeing men wearing skants. Star Trek online has had Skants available for male and female characters for the longest time. And Star Trek Lower Decks references them, but I don’t remember them showing them.
 

I hope to see skants for all in the Capt Pike show. lol 

[skillzdadirecta]

2 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

One of the few great things in S1 TNG was seeing men wearing skants. Star Trek online has had Skants available for male and female characters for the longest time. And Star Trek Lower Decks references them, but I don’t remember them showing them.
 

I hope to see skants for all in the Capt Pike show. lol 

Skants?

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

52 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Skants?

not sure where the term originated, but yep, that’s the name for that style of uniform. I assume it’s just a hybrid of the words skirt+pants, but why I don’t know. 
 

[skillzdadirecta]

Just finished episode 6 and this one was actually pretty good. I’m digging this show a lot more than I thought I would. 
 

Edit: Episode 7 wasn’t bad either. A different take on 

Spoiler

Faye’s backstory.

 

[silentbob]

I just did the 3rd episode last night and again enjoyed it. I’m not a diehard fan but a fan of the series nonetheless, but I’m finding enough to keep me entertained. Now I’m stuck between continuing this tonight, watch Hawkeye’s first 2 episodes, or get fucking high and binge the entire 2nd half of Masters of the Universe 

[skillzdadirecta]

Just finished the first season and while the anime is still FAR better than this, almost perfect in tone and execution, this wasn't bad and I hope it continues. There are a couple of weird choices and some poor writing but overall this is nowhere near as bad as some of the articles Ive seen would have you believe. I just recently binged the anime in preparation for this so the comparisons are pretty clear in my head. What saves this show is the actors. Spike, Faye and Jet are all well represented and fleshed out beyond what we saw in the anime. Gren is an actual character now and not a plot point. I didn't even mind Ed although I would need to see more as 

Spoiler

She only shows up in the last scene of the last episode.

but they've nailed most of the characters. The villains don't fare as well. Vicious is changed for the worse in my opnion. He's nowhere ear as cool or intimidating as he is in the anime... almost more cartoony here than he is there. Mad Piero was kind of a waste too. 

 

I would suggest folks give this show a chance if they're curious and ignore the internet pile on which is almost ALWAYS wrong... damn social media is a fucking mistake. I'd score the show 7 out of 10 personally.

[skillzdadirecta]

On 11/22/2021 at 1:00 AM, Keyser_Soze said:

For everyone who said they wanted to see Ed on this show. Yikes

 

 

They change Gren, a minor character in the anime, for the better in the show and the internet bitches. They make Ed pretty much true to form from the anime and the internet bitches You can't make this shit up! 

[Fizzzzle]

3 episodes in. I REALLY like it.

[Firewithin]

i have zero knowledge of the anime so nothing to base opinions off of compared to it but im 8 eps in and have enjoyed it. i dig the visual style and Faye is super fun