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SaysWho?

~*Official Nancy, AOC, and Friends Thread*~

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24 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Hey sometimes I like to poop for a long time.

 

Wage theft is employers stealing from their employees 

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3 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said:

 

Wage theft is employers stealing from their employees 

 

It can go both ways, no? 

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Just now, RedSoxFan9 said:

 

No

 

If I'm an hourly employee and I decide to play with my phone for a half hour while sitting on the toilet, should I get paid to do so?

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3 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

part of the social contract

This does not exist, all social contract ideas fall apart with the most minimal of examination.

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1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

This does not exist, all social contract ideas fall apart with the most minimal of examination.

But why

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Just now, SilentWorld said:

But why

The involuntary nature of the contract alone is enough.

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35 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

The involuntary nature of the contract alone is enough.

 

In what sense is the contract involuntary?

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39 minutes ago, Chris- said:

 

In what sense is the contract involuntary?

 

The argument is that if you are born into it, then it's not voluntary. And it's true! But you have no choice anyway.

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Those who gain most from the system must pay the most into the system. Small d democratic power(in our system, but government generally) is the only check on wealthly/business interests, assuming these interests have not completely subsumed a lever of power for their own will. Who gives a shit about social contracts, when you have social, political, and economic reality. Political theorizing is bunk outside of two things: might makes right; and to govern for the long term, you must have some semblance of support from the bottom up.

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11 hours ago, sblfilms said:

This does not exist, all social contract ideas fall apart with the most minimal of examination.

 

Its use has always seemed to be allegory to me, so I'm not sure remarking that there isn't a literal communicated agreement is a meaningful objection to the intent of the speakers. Of course, I'm always happy to ground out allegory statements to avoid confusion or applying the idea in poor ways. In this case, I think the salient point is game theoretically there are plenty of policies that are in the interest of the population to enforce via punishment of defectors or other means. So when someone says something is "part of the social contract" they just mean its something we should be enforcing as a population for our own betterment.

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This whole thread was fascinating to read, right from the start. Granted, that's about a week and a half I'll never be able to get back in my life, but wow, that was fascinating to read, just to see how so many people just weren't understanding what was happening as they were living.

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5 hours ago, legend said:

 

Its use has always seemed to be allegory to me, so I'm not sure remarking that there isn't a literal communicated agreement is a meaningful objection to the intent of the speakers. Of course, I'm always happy to ground out allegory statements to avoid confusion or applying the idea in poor ways. In this case, I think the salient point is game theoretically there are plenty of policies that are in the interest of the population to enforce via punishment of defectors or other means. So when someone says something is "part of the social contract" they just mean its something we should be enforcing as a population for our own betterment.

 

Maybe people intend it as allegory, but social

 contract theory In academia certainly isn’t treated as such. Or maybe more accurately, it isn’t just allegorical. CV may indeed have been using the term as you describe.

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25 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 

Maybe people intend it as allegory, but social

 contract theory In academia certainly isn’t treated as such. Or maybe more accurately, it isn’t just allegorical. CV may indeed have been using the term as you describe.

 

Fair enough. Of the non-CS academics I've collaborated with, they've been psychologists that typically use game-theoretic groundings for otherwise soft terms. I would have expected economists to be similar given the importance of game theory to that field, but I don't actually interact with that group, so I may be wrong!

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10 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said:

 

This says more about the potential candidates than the gnd because there's not much yet that I know about the gnd other than a good brand

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I suspect she's putting pressure on AOC to figure out what it is, how it works. Money where your mouth is and all that.

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7 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

This says more about the potential candidates than the gnd because there's not much yet that I know about the gnd other than a good brand

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/07/691997301/rep-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-releases-green-new-deal-outline

 

Some of the details are fully off fossil fuels by 2030. Upgrading all federal buildings to be energy efficient. It also combines economic New Deal programs like Universal Health Care.

 

It's also a non-binding resolution.

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5 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

It's also a non-binding resolution.

 

:lol:

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8 minutes ago, 2user1cup said:

I suspect she's putting pressure on AOC to figure out what it is, how it works. Money where your mouth is and all that.

 

AOC wanted a select committee on a Green New Deal and party leaders rejected the idea.  

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A whole committee to contribute to her meaningless proposal? Damn, she really wants to go all in.

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10 minutes ago, Chris- said:

A whole committee to contribute to her meaningless proposal? Damn, she really wants to go all in.

Yeah, I'm for very aggressive action on carbon pollution, but this should be one of many options on the table.

 

Mind you, I like it because decarbonization will require substantial investments in transportation (read: public transit and human powered transportation, maybe some electric cars in the short to medium term) and power generation. Additionally, funding energy efficiency measures in local, state, and federal public buildings, and subsidies and support for energy efficiency for everyone, but especially for poor and lower/fixed income homes. A carbon tax and dividend are also needed to get more of the private sector moving along in decarbonization mode. 

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1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Yeah, I'm for very aggressive action on carbon pollution, and this should be one of many options on the table.

 

Mind you, I like it because decarbonization will require substantial investments in transportation (read: public transit and human powered transportation, maybe some electric cars in the short to medium term) and power generation. Additionally, funding energy efficiency measures in local, state, and federal public buildings, and subsidies and support for energy efficiency for everyone, but especially for poor and lower/fixed income homes. A carbon tax and dividend are also needed to get more of the private sector moving along in decarbonization mode. 

 

I am also for aggressive action, and I love all of those ideas...But I'm not going to drink AOC's bath water and get salty because Pelosi mocked a pointless symbolic gesture.

 

Put together a real bill, pay for it through broadly popular measures (e.g. a wealth tax), make sure it doesn't add to the federal deficit, and force Congressional Republicans to oppose it. Fuck a non-binding resolution.

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A lot of love for Pelosi will be lost when people realize she's not down for most progressive reforms, non-binding resolutions or something more real. It's been my biggest concern with her this whole time, despite her political savvy. 

 

I'm tired of the tranquilizing drug of gradualism, we need strong and effective change now on at least some of these issues. 

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Select committees are usually for investigations and research, which you know is a pretty useful step to take before drafting legislation 

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23 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said:

Select committees are usually for investigations and research, which you know is a pretty useful step to take before drafting legislation 

Yeah, good thing there doing that. It shouldn't be wholly about one proposal.

 

 

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