Microsoft Update: Microsoft reverses course on XBL Gold - no price hike, F2P games now actually free

[crispy4000]

31 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

You can say MS sucks, but for years now they have done everything possible to make their ecosystem the best deal for gamers, and it is. Its not my primary platform either, but having a huge, ever expanding library at your fingertips, for the price of a netflix account, is about as good as it gets in gaming. 

None of which excuses this stunt, to be fair. They don’t get a gold star for walking it back quickly, just like EA didn’t for Battlefront 2.
 

I don’t think there’s any argument that Games Pass isn’t a great deal at this point.  Even more with folding in EA and buying Bethesda.  They could raise the price there without too much pushback.
 

Their ecosystem is still fundamentally split between those who do and don’t need to pay to jump over the online paywall.  If they were doing everything possible to make their ecosystem the best deal for gamers, they’d drop Gold and make Games Pass Ultimate entirely about the cloud.

 

[BloodyHell]

2 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

None of which excuses this stunt, to be fair. They don’t get a gold star for walking it back, just like EA didn’t for Battlefront 2.
 

I don’t think there’s any argument that Games Pass isn’t a great deal at this point.  Even more with folding in EA and buying Bethesda.  They could raise the price there without too much pushback.
 

Their ecosystem is still fundamentally split between those who do and don’t need to pay to jump over the online paywall.  If they were doing everything possible to make their ecosystem the best deal for gamers, they’d drop Gold and make Games Pass Ultimate entirely about the cloud.

 

Xcloud is still in alpha, at least give them time to get there.

 

And I agree they should kill gold, but whiny gamers don't want them to.

 

My point is only that they are way better to gamers than Sony and Nintendo, and yes, they do deserve credit for walking it back. They haven't hiked the price in over decade. It made sense to increase the price, but their image is more important to them. There is really nothing to excuse.

[BloodyHell]

39 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

It is a good deal if you want to play the specific games that are on that service at a point in time.  If your preference is to play different games, it doesn't look quite as attractive.

There are tons of games of all kinds though. Its not like the service is lacking.

[Mercury33]

24 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

It's like someone gives you a choice of two cars for the same price but one car has air conditioning and the other does not. I mean you can say, "All I do is drive" but there is no harm in taking the one with the AC in case you might want to try it out.

 

Game Pass gives you everything gold has plus the benefit of never having to buy an Xbox first party game (I mean you will be interested when Halo comes out right?) You could play those indie PC games on your PC with game pass, you could totally try out a game you might think you wouldn't otherwise enjoy for a cost of included game pass.

 

The only reason to have no desire for it is to be willfully ignorant of what you get out of it.

Are gold and gamepass the same price? I was under the impression gamepass was a little more expensive?

 

nvm I looked it up myself. So game pass is $120 a year and ultimate is $160. Soooooo your point is for what reason? Other than to vent since it clearly offends you for some reason that someone wouldn’t be interested in gamepass. I mean let’s be honest, it’s not like MS is in the same boat as Sony and churning out “must have” first party games. I don’t think I’ve bought a 1st party MS game in two years. I buy all my indie games on my laptop and switch because I only really play them when the TV is in use by someone else. 
 

But yes please continue to educate me on how I’m unaware of my own circumstance and personnel usage of the console and should be spending an extra $60-120 a year for no reason 👍🏻

[Keyser_Soze]

5 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

Are gold and gamepass the same price? I was under the impression gamepass was a little more expensive?

 

They are the same price. Game Pass Ultimate (that includes the PC) is $5 more.

[Spork3245]

2 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

They are the same price. Game Pass Ultimate (that includes the PC) is $5 more.

Gold is $60/year, GP is $120/year, GP:U is $180/year

[Keyser_Soze]

12 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

Gold is $60/year, GP is $120/year

 

If you pay by the month they are the same price.

[Brian]

The company has been exploring multiple ways to solve this issue.

Removing Gold doesn't guarantee those users sign up to Game Pass.

Making Gold part of a lower Game Pass tier disincentivizes the upgrade to Game Pass Ultimate.

So what was the solution announced yesterday?

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) January 23, 2021

The simple fact is that everything Microsoft does or has done recently revolves around trying to get as many people to sign up to Game Pass as they can.

The company needs as many core console players as possible on the service while it gears up to acquire new users long term.

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) January 23, 2021

[Spork3245]

55 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

If you pay by the month they are the same price.

Sure, but why would anyone do that?  

[Keyser_Soze]

4 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

Sure, but why would anyone do that?  

 

Well I went to the website to compare, you can't even buy it yearly if you go to Xbox.com which is why I said that.

[Spork3245]

6 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Well I went to the website to compare, you can't even buy it yearly if you go to Xbox.com which is why I said that.

I think you have to purchase it directly on a console and select “renews yearly” or whatever.

[finaljedi]

I did the conversion thing last year and I just keep buying Game Pass Ultimate 3 month cards when they're on sale, I have a few years before it starts charging me.

[AbsolutSurgen]

3 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

There are tons of games of all kinds though. Its not like the service is lacking.

It makes sense to gamers that would be saving money, or are willing to change their gaming habits.

 

For example, if you primarily play COD, NBA 2K and Madden Ultimate team, having access to GP gives you very little benefit.

[crispy4000]

3 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

And I agree they should kill gold, but whiny gamers don't want them to.

Literally no one would complain, so long as redeemed games stayed in your library.  It’s not even value competitive with Sony anymore, because of their persistent PS+ collection on top of the standard monthly redeems.

 

3 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

They are the same price. Game Pass Ultimate (that includes the PC) is $5 more.

There’s no benefit to having Ultimate on PC outside of the cloud stuff.  If you’re not going to use that, it’s worthless.  Pay the $10 monthly instead.

 

I remember they tried making closed beta access a thing with Ultimate, for Gears 5.  Haven’t heard of any other game doing that. 

[JPDunks4]

10 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

Literally no one would complain, so long as redeemed games stayed in your library.  It’s not even value competitive with Sony anymore, because of their persistent PS+ collection on top of the standard monthly redeems.

 

There’s no benefit to having Ultimate on PC outside of the cloud stuff.  If you’re not going to use that, it’s worthless.  Pay the $10 monthly instead.

 

I remember they tried making closed beta access a thing with Ultimate, for Gears 5.  Haven’t heard of any other game doing that. 

 

EA Play will be a part of only Ultimate I believe, so that'll be one extra reason.

[crispy4000]

45 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

 

EA Play will be a part of only Ultimate I believe, so that'll be one extra reason.

EA Play is currently $30 a year.  You’d save money if you subscribe separately.

 

On PC that’s the smarter route.  On consoles, there’s still the online paywall to jump over.

[Keyser_Soze]

@Mercury33 Even at $120 a year it is still a great value. At this point it becomes less of an online access thing and more along the lines of price of games thing. Or perhaps for you the cost of XBL ($60) and a game. Surely you plan to buy at least one Xbox game this year, and if you did so on day 1 game pass would be worth it for you already.

Let's say you want to get The Medium day one, which comes out on the 27th and hits game pass the same day. Then even if the only other game you want to get this year is halo later this year game pass already has paid off. And then anything from now and between that catches your eye, you can just download and play. Yakuza 3,4,5 remastered all coming to came pass. Maybe you hate the games but even if you just try them out that's added value.

The service is a lot like SEGA channel (if you ever had it).

 

16 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

There’s no benefit to having Ultimate on PC outside of the cloud stuff.  If you’re not going to use that, it’s worthless.  Pay the $10 monthly instead.

 

I quite enjoy my GPU subscription thank you very much. The only thing that's worthless is your terrible comment.

[crispy4000]

46 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

I quite enjoy my GPU subscription thank you very much. The only thing that's worthless is your terrible comment.

I don’t doubt you enjoy it and you think I’m wrong.  
 

But if someone’s only using GPU on PC and no cloud stuff, they’re paying too much and should downgrade to the standard plan.

 

Its how the math works.

[Paperclyp]

4 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

Xcloud is still in alpha, at least give them time to get there.

 

And I agree they should kill gold, but whiny gamers don't want them to.

 

My point is only that they are way better to gamers than Sony and Nintendo, and yes, they do deserve credit for walking it back. They haven't hiked the price in over decade. It made sense to increase the price, but their image is more important to them. There is really nothing to excuse.

Plenty of people out there play their 1-2 games a year and have no interest in paying more money for shit they’ll never use. That doesn’t make them whiny. 
 

Playing a game of MS is “better” to “gamers” than another company is a fool’s errand and only makes you appear irrationally fond of a corporation. They deserve zero credit for walking back a perplexing decision that they just must have assumed most people would either be mildly frustrated with, or perhaps enough people like you who almost support the decision since they’ve been so good to us for so long. 
 

come on

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, Paperclyp said:

Playing a game of MS is “better” to “gamers” than another company is a fool’s errand and only makes you appear irrationally fond of a corporation. They deserve zero credit for walking back a perplexing decision that they just must have assumed most people would either be mildly frustrated with, or perhaps enough people like you who almost support the decision since they’ve been so good to us for so long. 
 

come on

Preach.  I remember when Sony announced that the PS4 was $399, and so many people were amped at them sticking it to Microsoft for their issues.

 

That same day, in the same presentation, Sony announced they were imposing an online paywall.  And now we even have Nintendo doing it.  The corporate cheerleaders looked past all of it because of the pricing war.  Sony fans just brushed it off as an inevitably, an argument that still makes no sense.
 

Console war shit matters more to gamers than being treated well.

[BloodyHell]

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

Preach.  I remember when Sony announced that the PS4 was $399, and so many people were amped at them sticking it to Microsoft for their issues.

 

That same day, in the same presentation, Sony announced they were imposing an online paywall.  And now we even have Nintendo doing it.  The corporate cheerleaders looked past all of it because of the pricing war.  Sony fans just brushed it off as an inevitably, an argument that still makes no sense.
 

Console war shit matters more to gamers than being treated well.

We brushed it off because its worth the money, same as gamepass. It has nothing to do with console wars, these services are great deals..

[crispy4000]

2 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

We brushed it off because its worth the money, same as gamepass. It has nothing to do with console wars, these services are great deals..

XBL Gold really isn’t compared to the rest of the gaming landscape these days.  PS+, your mileage will vary on if you were into Sony’s games this gen and own a PS5 or not.
 

That’s just looking at them from the ‘giveaway’ perspective.  Which EGS easily challenges them on for actual free.  Or Games Pass for the library and cost.
 

The online multiplayer aspect meanwhile will always be a farce.  It tries to add value with artificial barriers that aren’t even consistent across platforms.

[Paperclyp]

2 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

We brushed it off because its worth the money, same as gamepass. It has nothing to do with console wars, these services are great deals..

[BloodyHell]

1 minute ago, crispy4000 said:

XBL Gold really isn’t compared to the rest of the gaming landscape these days.  PS+, your mileage will vary on if you were into Sony’s games this gen and own a PS5 or not.
 

That’s just looking at them from the ‘giveaway’ perspective.  Which easily EGS challenges them on for actual free.
 

The online multiplayer aspect meanwhile will always be a farce.  It tries to add value with artificial barriers that aren’t even consistent across platforms.

I kind of agree, but im also fine with paying for online that actively fights against cheating. I love PC, but  almost every game I play has bots and cheaters. 

[BloodyHell]

Just now, Paperclyp said:

Ok, libraries of games, added to monthly, isn't worth the money. You can believe that if you want to be ridiculous. Ive gotten immense value from GP and PS+, and so have most others.

[Paperclyp]

11 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Ok, libraries of games, added to monthly, isn't worth the money. You can believe that if you want to be ridiculous. Ive gotten immense value from GP and PS+, and so have most others.

You’re making a lot more declarative assertions than this, such as people who don’t want base XBL discontinued are whiners and that paying $60 a year for online services is a “great” deal rather than a charge you are required to play to play online on their console because they have you held hostage if you buy their platform and want to play online. Until their recent fuck up, you literally couldn’t even play FREE games on their online service. It’s not a great deal, man. 
 

What PC games do you play that are riddled with cheaters and bots, specifically? I have never found a significant difference in cheating from PC to console and I regularly game on both. 

[Paperclyp]

To be clear - the services are fine. I pay for PSN online and I don’t lose sleep over it. I don’t feel like I gained $60 of value when they started charging though. I also got on the PS+ train reeeeal early and initially was pretty stoked with it, and now it’s pretty rare they add anything I’m super interested in. 

[Duderino]

3 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

We brushed it off because its worth the money, same as gamepass. It has nothing to do with console wars, these services are great deals..

 

The online paywall is subtracted value from your initial console hardware purchase.  Yes, PS plus provides plenty of value on it’s own, but that doesn’t change the facts.  You are paying for a feature that is free on PC (and was free on prior consoles, and even smart phones/tablets).

 

It’s this generation’s equivalent to our parents and/or grandparents paying cable companies for local channels, but at least they’re getting a better picture out of it .

 

I can justify the subscription but do support decoupling online play from it.  Both MS and Sony traded (lots of) short term revenue for overall market share;  PS+/XBL have no question driven a good portion of their potential consumers to Steam.  Also, while the FTP exception is a positive on the surface, it will drive developers further away from traditional online modes, given less potential players beyond the initial game cost barrier of entry.

[BloodyHell]

6 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

You’re making a lot more declarative assertions than this, such as people who don’t want base XBL discontinued are whiners and that paying $60 a year for online services is a “great” deal rather than a charge you are required to play to play online on their console because they have you held hostage if you buy their platform and want to play online. Until their recent fuck up, you literally couldn’t even play FREE games on their online service. It’s not a great deal, man. 
 

What PC games do you play that are riddled with cheaters and bots, specifically? I have never found a significant difference in cheating from PC to console and I regularly game on both. 

You don't see cheating on pc? Fall Guys, PUBG, Warzone, Overwatch had tons of problems, Diablo, WoW with bots. PC gaming is ridden with cheaters.

[Paperclyp]

2 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

You don't see cheating on pc? Fall Guys, PUBG, Warzone, Overwatch had tons of problems, Diablo, WoW with bots. PC gaming is ridden with cheaters.

It’s not that I don’t run into cheaters, it’s that it doesn’t happen at a level that’s like holy shit I need to play this game on console only. Most games worth their salt on PC figure it out. Played probably 300-400 hours of PUBG and can probably count the number of ruined games on one hand. 
 

You don’t seem willing to engage with me on the other stuff, which is fine. 

[BloodyHell]

10 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

You’re making a lot more declarative assertions than this, such as people who don’t want base XBL discontinued are whiners and that paying $60 a year for online services is a “great” deal rather than a charge you are required to play to play online on their console because they have you held hostage if you buy their platform and want to play online. Until their recent fuck up, you literally couldn’t even play FREE games on their online service. It’s not a great deal, man. 
 

What PC games do you play that are riddled with cheaters and bots, specifically? I have never found a significant difference in cheating from PC to console and I regularly game on both. 

I've gotten far more than the value of sub in both services every year. PS+ constantly drops great games, and gamepass is full of stuff I love or want to play. The value of both is there if you play a lot of games, period. 

 

I would like to see online decoupled for people too, but I don't have any problem with it being a part of the service. Servers aren't free. Theres little incentive to maintain and improve servers without these services. As I said, free online on PC has ruined a bunch of gaming experiences.

[Keyser_Soze]

13 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

You don't see cheating on pc? Fall Guys, PUBG, Warzone, Overwatch had tons of problems, Diablo, WoW with bots. PC gaming is ridden with cheaters.

And with cross play you get to see them on consoles too  

I’ve seen a fair share of warzone games with blatant aimbots 

[Paperclyp]

6 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Theres little incentive to maintain and improve servers without these services. As I said, free online on PC has ruined a bunch of gaming experiences.

I know this is not true. Any game that is trying to be an online experience is going to dedicate significant resources to making that experience as cheater free as they can. It’s crucial to their success and profitability over the long term. And I’d venture to guess the reason PC has more difficulty is that, well, they’re PCs rather than Sony and MS being super aggressive at cleaning out cheaters. 
 

Like I don’t think you can assert that the reason cheating happens less on consoles is because your monthly fee is being used to address it. 

[Xbob42]

The only time I see significant cheating on a PC game is if the game in question has no anti-cheat (which is rare and hilariously dumb) or if they use a really bad anti-cheat.

 

I don't get why you'd think a subscription would keep people away from cheating, though. People still cheat on consoles. If money was the defining factor, then the same reasoning could be applied to PC gaming. If you get banned from a game, you have to make a new account and purchase the game again. Or do you think the PC is literally a wild west wasteland where people cheat without being banned?

 

It's the same thing: both will cost you money in the long run. If the price doesn't deter you from cheating on one, it won't on the other. The reason console cheating is less prevalent has less to do with price and more to do with it's just a pain in the ass to run your own software on console (or pipe it in from your PC.) most of the time. It can be done, but usually when people do it, it's for homebrew shit or piracy or just fucking around, most people capable of doing it wouldn't waste their time doing banal shit like cheating and dealing with bans.

[Brian]

37 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

What PC games do you play that are riddled with cheaters and bots, specifically? I have never found a significant difference in cheating from PC to console and I regularly game on both. 

lol ok I was with until here.