Jason Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 14 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: So...AstraZeneca may be more effective than the mRNA vaccines in real world use? Edit - Obviously both are equally effective at the stat that matters: severe cases. But real-world data does seem to support the idea that the trials were so different that the results can't really be compared, and they are all about equally effective. Efficacy in terms of what? Preventing you from getting it at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 21 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: I edited my post, but my point is that they are likely equally effective after one or two doses. The only reason the trial results were so different is because they were done in wildly different conditions, including against different strains. After two doses AZ is stronger than one, and is actually even stronger the longer the gap between doses. My point is that they are all great, and the trial numbers thrown around are almost meaningless. I would buy this logic if the AZ numbers in the American trials were different than the original trial, but they weren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Real world numbers will be better than trial numbers over time due to increased immunity compared to when the trials were done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Also, that chart was specifically dealing with Scotland only. And you can't compare the vaccines like that without knowing if the population breakdown within each group was similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air_Delivery Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 I'm still willing to wager the mRNA vaccines will turn out to be the best when everything shakes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Air_Delivery said: I'm still willing to wager the mRNA vaccines will turn out to be the best when everything shakes out. They will likely have no difference long term. Short term efficacy is the only difference, if there is any. mRNA is better tech not due to efficacy, but the ability to rapidly develop new or updated vaccines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marioandsonic Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 From what I'm seeing based current average number of daily vaccines, by May nearly one-third of the US population will be fully vaccinated, and could possibly reach half being partially vaccinated. I'm curious to see when herd immunity starts to kick in, or at least hospitalizations start to significantly decrease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air_Delivery Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, sblfilms said: They will likely have no difference long term. Short term efficacy is the only difference, if there is any. mRNA is better tech not due to efficacy, but the ability to rapidly develop new or updated vaccines. mRNA doesn't have the issue with some people's immune system killing off the virus delivery system reducing its effectiveness. The mRNA delivery system is just way more reliable and produces more proteins to get a stronger immune response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Air_Delivery said: mRNA doesn't have the issue with some people's immune system killing off the virus delivery system reducing its effectiveness. The mRNA delivery system is just way more reliable and produces more proteins to get a stronger immune response. Which only will matter in the early stages of vaccination when there are still a lot of people around you infected. The larger the percentage of immunity within the less individual effectiveness will be challenged. That’s why it’s way more important to get any vaccine than the “best” vaccine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 My wife's parents are eligible for AZ right now in Mexico and they were seriously considering flying out to Phoenix to get an mRNA vaccine instead (apparently people in Sonora are doing this lol). I told her that they had a greater chance of dying on the trip to Phoenix than from dying from a blood clot due to the AZ vaccine. They are now staying put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air_Delivery Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 15 minutes ago, sblfilms said: Which only will matter in the early stages of vaccination when there are still a lot of people around you infected. The larger the percentage of immunity within the less individual effectiveness will be challenged. That’s why it’s way more important to get any vaccine than the “best” vaccine. Oh yeah when it comes too general vaccination any is good. I'm just saying mRNA is truly next gen technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 13 minutes ago, Joe said: My wife's parents are eligible for AZ right now in Mexico and they were seriously considering flying out to Phoenix to get an mRNA vaccine instead (apparently people in Sonora are doing this lol). I told her that they had a greater chance of dying on the trip to Phoenix than from dying from a blood clot due to the AZ vaccine. They are now staying put. If you don't have access to any vaccine then maybe it's worth the risk (but I'd still just stay put until I'm eligible, unless it was feasible to drive instead of fly), but flying just for a different vaccine is pretty big-brained. A couple of hours in the airport each way, several hours on the plane each way...yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 I really wish we could fine them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairslinger Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: I really wish we could fine them all. I guess "Bring out your old and infirm so that we might gain strength by sapping the last of their life essense" wasn't snappy enough to fit into a chant. 1 minute ago, CitizenVectron said: Don't neglect your cardio before the big riot, kids. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Joe said: Beats the dumb elbow shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairslinger Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Just now, Joe said: Unless you are a close relative or someone I am currently having sex with, I am good if the pandemic does away completely with any societal norm that encourages physical contact at all with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marioandsonic Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, Joe said: *terrorist fist jabs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentWorld Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Beats the dumb elbow shit I never got the elbow thing. You’ve got to get even closer to do the elbow tap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Korea ordered 40 million doses of Novavax and will start producing them domestically starting in June. @Joe 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Sounds like Ontario is going to close all schools and impose a province-wide curfew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 16 hours ago, marioandsonic said: From what I'm seeing based current average number of daily vaccines, by May nearly one-third of the US population will be fully vaccinated, and could possibly reach half being partially vaccinated. I'm curious to see when herd immunity starts to kick in, or at least hospitalizations start to significantly decrease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 My hope is 80% of 16+ with at least one dose by end of May. Definitely doable on a supply side, more a question of demand. Hopefully positive peer pressure as more people realize their friends and family have been vaccinated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Canada is now vaccinating at an equivalent rate as the US. About 30 days behind, though, due to early supply problems. But good news, overall. And because Canada is only giving out first doses in most provinces right now, we should tighten that gap a bit (in terms of first doses, which are most important right now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marioandsonic Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Regeneron says its Covid-19 antibody cocktail helps prevent symptomatic Covid-19 WWW.CNN.COM New Phase 3 trial data finds a single shot of Regeneron's Covid-19 antibody cocktail was able to prevent symptomatic Covid-19 among people exposed to the... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 29 minutes ago, marioandsonic said: Regeneron says its Covid-19 antibody cocktail helps prevent symptomatic Covid-19 WWW.CNN.COM New Phase 3 trial data finds a single shot of Regeneron's Covid-19 antibody cocktail was able to prevent symptomatic Covid-19 among people exposed to the... More therapeutics plz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Regeneron! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marioandsonic Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 14 minutes ago, Joe said: Regeneron! Sounds like the name of a Transformer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, marioandsonic said: Sounds like the name of a Transformer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 It’s too late for vaccines to save Michigan, CDC director explains ARSTECHNICA.COM Vaccines take weeks to work; distancing and other health measures work immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, Jason said: It’s too late for vaccines to save Michigan, CDC director explains ARSTECHNICA.COM Vaccines take weeks to work; distancing and other health measures work immediately. She was wrong to not push for vaccine surges in March. You don't need full efficacy to get meaningful effects! If you have a good idea of where the outbreaks are occuring, targeting those particular communities would be a great strategy to employ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 40 minutes ago, sblfilms said: She was wrong to not push for vaccine surges in March. You don't need full efficacy to get meaningful effects! If you have a good idea of where the outbreaks are occuring, targeting those particular communities would be a great strategy to employ. I think there is a need for both. Vaccines can help reduce the severity of an outbreak (and should be targeted), but due to the fast nature of an uncontrolled spread, the only real solution is a complete stay-at-home order. The former takes weeks to have any effect (for those vaccinated), and so the does the latter. But the latter will work for the entire population, while the former only works for those vaccinated (until a large majority are vaccinated). I don't think the US has any willpower to perform actual lockdowns at this point, so the argument is moot. Thousands (tens of thousands) are going to still die that could be saved by governments and people doing the right thing, but the willpower isn't there on either account. The reason for that lack of willpower is complex, and involves a history of individual rights over the collective good, the partisan split on whether the crisis is even real, and an ideological reluctance to just give people money to stay at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 10 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: I think there is a need for both. Vaccines can help reduce the severity of an outbreak (and should be targeted), but due to the fast nature of an uncontrolled spread, the only real solution is a complete stay-at-home order. The former takes weeks to have any effect (for those vaccinated), and so the does the latter. But the latter will work for the entire population, while the former only works for those vaccinated (until a large majority are vaccinated). I don't think the US has any willpower to perform actual lockdowns at this point, so the argument is moot. Thousands (tens of thousands) are going to still die that could be saved by governments and people doing the right thing, but the willpower isn't there on either account. The reason for that lack of willpower is complex, and involves a history of individual rights over the collective good, the partisan split on whether the crisis is even real, and an ideological reluctance to just give people money to stay at home. If you could actually get people to stay home, sure, but you are correct that the willpower ain't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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