How would you rate LBJ as a president?

[Fizzzzle]

I was recently asked this question and I was like... I have no fucking idea.

 

On the one hand, he was an unexpected civil rights champion. He was thrown onto the ticket with JFK as a way to appease racist southern democrats because he... well, he was a racist southern democrat. Then, when push came to shove, he was like "fuck you racist assholes (even though he himself was a racist asshole, he just knew which side was the right side of history), we're doing this shit." And I have so much respect for him for that.

 

On the other hand... Vietnam.

 

Does one outweigh the other? Is he just considered neutral? Like, he knocks Obama out of the fucking park when it comes to civil rights, but on the other hand... Vietnam. So many other presidents are easy to pigeonhole as good or bad, but LBJ (and Truman)? It kind of feels like whatever I care more about that day. Like, there are so many other presidents that were worse than him on so many levels, but they also didn't start wars that lasted a decade over fake commie bullshit.

[outsida]

• Great Society
• Civil Rights
• Medicare
• NASA

2nd Greatest of the 20th Century. 

[Bacon]

I give him a 69/100

 

I know nothing about him but BJ is like a sex thing and so is 69 LMAO

[mclumber1]

Big dick energy

[TUFKAK]

Top 5 despite Vietnam 

[SaysWho?]

Would be arguably the best of the 20th century of not for Vietnam.

 

but it’s hard to downplay the positive ramifications of the great society decades later.

[TheLeon]

 

[Paperclyp]

Read one of the books that Robert Caro wrote. Believe it was means of ascent. If you're interested in him they're incredibly well researched and written. 

 

That one was interesting in that it talked a lot about his campaign strategies, with which he was quite forward thinking and revolutionary in a lot of ways. I also got the sense that he was a true politician in the ways that a lot are today, in that he was perfectly OK with changing his view on a subject if he thought it would get him elected. 

 

Overall - complicated man who did a lot of good, but I don't have near enough knowledge about him to say if he was a net good or not. 

[Comet]

2 hours ago, outsida said:

• Great Society
• Civil Rights
• Medicare
• NASA

2nd Greatest of the 20th Century. 

Soooo much sexual harassment that was just accepted back then though! 

[UpvoteShittyTakesOnly]

current event is contextual i guess

[SuperSpreader]

Was there any man at the time who would be president who would not have gone into Vietnam?

[Keyser_Soze]

7 minutes ago, UpvoteShittyTakesOnly said:

current event is contextual i guess

 

Should be renamed to "serious talk board" for the s out there.

[SaysWho?]

Just now, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Should be renamed to "serious talk board" for the s out there.

 

Board hasn't even been Current Events for a while; it's just part of the descriptor now.

[Fizzzzle]

1 hour ago, UpvoteShittyTakesOnly said:

current event is contextual i guess

It's more of a "where do I ask to get mostly serious responses that don't involve penises board" for me, but your point stands.

[Fizzzzle]

2 hours ago, Paperclyp said:

Read one of the books that Robert Caro wrote. Believe it was means of ascent. If you're interested in him they're incredibly well researched and written. 

 

That one was interesting in that it talked a lot about his campaign strategies, with which he was quite forward thinking and revolutionary in a lot of ways. I also got the sense that he was a true politician in the ways that a lot are today, in that he was perfectly OK with changing his view on a subject if he thought it would get him elected. 

 

Overall - complicated man who did a lot of good, but I don't have near enough knowledge about him to say if he was a net good or not. 

That's the thing that I respect most about LBJ. He knew which way the wind was blowing at all times, but rather than turning that against the people to play to the corporations, he constantly worked on behalf of the people (at least after the 50's, when he was still a stalwart southern segregationist... segregationalist? segrist?)

 

That's why I find him so fascinating. On its surface, he is everything you hate about a politician. He was a fucking slimeball, egotist, probably a psychopath (read how he got his commendations in WW2, he knew how to worm his way into the right place at the right time), yet he used all of his powers (mostly) for good. Except for Vietnam.

 

It's like... imagine if George Washington just said "FUCK IT! YEEEHAWWW" and invaded, I don't know, Quebec or something and killed 1/3 of the population. George Washington is a huge part of the reason we aren't a dictatorship to this day, faults and all. But if he killed a third of the population of Quebec... you'd be like "yeeaaaaaahhhhh but there's that...."

 

Side note: Washington was only 67 when he died, and it was from a throat infection that probably would have solved itself if doctors of the time just left it the fuck alone. You find that a lot in the 19th century. Garfield probably would have survived his assassination attempt if the doctors didn't have such a fixation with getting the bullet out.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

19 hours ago, Fizzzzle said:

On the one hand, he was an unexpected civil rights champion. He was thrown onto the ticket with JFK as a way to appease racist southern democrats because he... well, he was a racist southern democrat. Then, when push came to shove, he was like "fuck you racist assholes (even though he himself was a racist asshole, he just knew which side was the right side of history), we're doing this shit." And I have so much respect for him for that.

Very much the same. He could have easily stuck with his opinions that the nation and mainly souther democrats weren’t ready for the civil rights act and just kicked the can down the road to another president to worry about. “Don’t ask don’t tell” the thing, basically. But he fought for it. Used all kinds of political capitol to do it. 
 

Im sure he was all kinds of an asshole. But he seemed more democrat in them 1960s than many democrats seem to be today. Definite respect there for me. 

[Fizzzzle]

You're right. There's a part of me that wants to put LBJ right up with Teddy as the best president ever because of what he did for civil rights. Like if the Vietnam war never happened, he would be right up with Teddy and Lincoln. But the Vietnam war DID happen, and he was a major part of it.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

He's definitely in my Top 5 and if he was truly responsible for JFK's assassination then he'd ascend to the status of "Eternal #1".

[Fizzzzle]

17 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

He's definitely in my Top 5 and if he was truly responsible for JFK's assassination then he'd ascend to the status of "Eternal #1".

JFKs assassination is one of the only conspiracy rabbit holes that makes me think "there was a lot of smoke for there to have been no fire.". Could I tell you who did it or why? No! There were lots of powerful people who had lots of reasons to want him dead. The mafia, the segregationists (which would make it delicious that LBJ pulled a 180 on them and passed every civil rights bill), the Communists, who the hell knows. 

 

To be honest I'm also at this point fairly confident that the FBI killed MLK. There is so much about his assassination that screams "someone with authority made sure he would be at a certain place at a certain time." Like even the hotel room he normally booked was basically taken and they only had ONE other room left, and across from that room this new bush magically appeared that just so happened to be a perfect cover of someone may have wanted to shoot MLK and get away with it. While at the same time the FBI was trailing MLKs every move. And also he was getting increasingly more socialist.