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Hamas has penetrated the Gaza Border, street fighting underway in Southern Israel


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35 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

This is a sophisticated, well-coordinated infiltration from the land, sea, and air (through the use of paragliders).

There is no way Mossad missed this. Either this is the greatest intelligence failure in the history of Israel, or the Israeli government allowed this to happen to justify a war to end this conflict once and for all. 

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25 minutes ago, Subzwari1987 said:

There is no way Mossad missed this. Either this is the greatest intelligence failure in the history of Israel, or the Israeli government allowed this to happen to justify a war to end this conflict once and for all. 

 

Either way, it's not exactly a positive development for the survival of the current Israeli government.

 

Point of clarification: because this situation evolved from Gaza, any intelligence-gathering failure would be laid at the door of Shin Bet who typically have purview over threats from the Palestinian territories rather than Mossad whose portfolio involves external threats like Iran.

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13 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said:


I guess what I mean is there a larger goal than kill a bunch of IDF with a home field advantage or is this a known Pyrrhic victory at best?

 

Hamas is at its root a jihadist organization.  Within that context, what other "larger goal" does there really need to be other than martyrdom?

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No one can say this was unprovoked given Israel's actions on the temple mount and in the settlements. 

 

Both sides are not equivalent here, but Hamas is not innocent of atrocities, as today shows. The reason for combat operations being understandable (or even justified) does not negate the heinous actions of targeting civilians. 

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51 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Either way, it's not exactly a positive development for the survival of the current Israeli government.

 

Point of clarification: because this situation evolved from Gaza, any intelligence-gathering failure would be laid at the door of Shin Bet who typically have purview over threats from the Palestinian territories rather than Mossad whose portfolio involves external threats like Iran.


This is an issue I’m not well versed in. My feeling would have been that it brings unity against the attackers at a time of mass protests. You really think this is going to hurt the prime minister and his government?

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47 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:


This is an issue I’m not well versed in. My feeling would have been that it brings unity against the attackers at a time of mass protests. You really think this is going to hurt the prime minister and his government?

 

Oh absolutely it would because it occurred under his watch.

 

Edit: It could easily be claimed that he was paying far more attention to his domestic political issues resulting from the judiciary bill than the threat looming just across the Gaza fenceline.

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WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

Israel’s advanced surveillance of Palestinians makes scenes of Hamas gunmen moving through its streets all the more astounding

 

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While it is known from previous rounds of fighting in Gaza that Hamas has worked to develop independent and redundant military communication networks, including their own battlefield rebroadcast systems, this suggests two things.

 

The first is that this was planned with a level of operational security, not just within Hamas but also rival Gaza factions, unprecedented in previous rounds of fighting where at least the broad shape if not the extent of Hamas’s building-up of stockpiles has been identified and broadcast by Israel.

 

Military analysts have already been quick to suggest that Hamas is likely to have employed significant deception as well as the shock of attacks from multiple domains – including rocket and infiltration – to create maximum chaos.

 

What is clear is that at several points in the buildup, potential preparations were missed: planning, stockpiling, but most crucially, in the immediate run-up to the Hamas offensive when its fighters were mustering and approaching border areas overseen by regular patrols, cameras, ground motion sensors and remote-controlled mini-cannon in places which in the past have proved effective against attempts to storm the border fence.

 

All of which suggests an operation which – like previous Hamas surprise infiltration attacks including those involving tunnels into Israel – required a huge amount of preparation.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Large numbers of dead IDF personnel in the hellscape of urban warfare in Gaza City.

If it was me i'd just recommend saturation bombing of the city, IDF would never step foot in the city, until it was a smoking heap just to make sure they got them all, but i'm old school warfare, none of this hearts and minds BS.

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2 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said:

If it was me i'd just recommend saturation bombing of the city, IDF would never step foot in the city, until it was a smoking heap just to make sure they got them all, but i'm old school warfare, none of this hearts and minds BS.

 

Your Likud party membership card is in the mail!

  • Sicko Sherman 1
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The deputy head of Hamas's political bureau, Saleh al-Arouri, has claimed "senior officers" from Israel's army have been captured

 

He told Al Jazeera's Arabic channel that "what is in our hands will free all the prisoners" in Israel - an apparent reference to Palestinians being held in Israeli jails.

 

"We captured senior officers from the occupation army," he said.

 

"There are many Palestinians killed and many Israelis dead as well as prisoners, and the battle is still at its peak."

 

Arouri said Hamas was ready to meet an Israeli ground incursion into Gaza, which he described as "the best scenario for us to resolve the conflict against the enemy".

 

 

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Dozens of Palestinians killed trying to infiltrate Israel by sea, military says

 

The unprecedented attack on Israel from Gaza involved a massive barrage of rockets as well as gunmen infiltrating Israeli territory - and also sea operations.

 

Israel's military now says its naval forces have killed dozens of Palestinian militants who were travelling over water to get into the country, according to Reuters.

 

Israeli officials previously said there had been "infiltrations from paragliders, sea and ground".

 

 

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More from the Israel Defense Forces, who have confirmed their troops are fighting in 22 locations in a statement.

 

"There is no community in southern Israel where we do not have forces," it says.

 

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In its statement, the Israeli army also confirms that there are hostage situations in the kibbutzes of Ofakim and Be'eri. It says special forces are involved and "live firefights" are ongoing.

 

Separately, the army confirms Israeli soldiers have been killed, but does not provide numbers.

 

 

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"Our goals are that all the terrorists will be killed, that all the communities will be rid of terrorists," the IDF statement continues.

 

It also warned people living in Israel near the Gaza Strip to stay sheltering inside until then.

 

The statement continues that the IDF is carrying out air strikes in Gaza and will later continue with "heavy ground means"

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Tehran doesn't provide significant funding to Hamas as far as I'm aware.

 

Hamas funding largely originates from Gulf Arab sources.

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3 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Tehran doesn't provide significant funding to Hamas as far as I'm aware.

 

Hamas funding largely originates from Gulf Arab sources.

 

I was asking about Iran because they have obvious motive to try to blow up the Israeli-Saudi peace talks; do any Gulf Arab states?

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