TwinIon Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Late last year Tesla renamed their charging port to the "North American Charging Standard" and it seems that it's beginning to live up to it's new name. A couple weeks ago Ford announced they'd begin shipping EVs, including the Mach-E and F-150 Lightning with the NACS ports, in addition to providing current owners with adapters and software updates that will allow them to access Tesla's supercharging network. GM has followed suit, along with a handful of smaller companies, including Rivian. Other brands like Hyundai and Stelantis are reportedly considering moving to NACS as well. Charging companies like EVGo and Chargepoint have already stated their plans to deploy NACS chargers. It's a significant shift that will differentiate the North American market from the rest of the world, where everyone has pretty much agreed to use the CCS port (including Tesla), like virtually every non-Tesla EV already sold in the States. It's also a move that is currently at odds with wider efforts to build out charging networks, including Build Back Better incentives that require the use of the CCS port. Some automakers have expressed hesitation at moving to the NACS due to it's lower voltage limits. Porche, Hyundai, Kia, Audi, Volvo, and Polstar all have made or announced 800V cars, though it seems people expect the upcoming version 4 of the NACS to include support for 800v. Despite whatever reservations people may have, it's increasingly looking like the future of charging in the US is NACS. Personally, I'm still unsure if that's a good thing or if it ultimately doesn't matter as long as there's a consistent standard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, TwinIon said: Despite whatever reservations people may have, it's increasingly looking like the future of charging in the US is NACS. Personally, I'm still unsure if that's a good thing or if it ultimately doesn't matter as long as there's a consistent standard. The problem is it's not a real standard as long as Tesla (or any single private entity) controls it. Doubly so since Musk is exactly the kind of person who'd abuse the situation once tons of people and companies are locked into it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsida Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Note: The CCS in NA is different than the CCS in the rest of the world(Europe) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 CCS2 is not a worldwide standard -- it's primarily a European one. Japan, South Korea and North America have not adopted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsida Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 China also uses a different standard. here is the NACS standard in detail: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Wow I didn’t know about Rivian! This is exciting stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Big win for Musk. The Tesla super charger network was a good call by Tesla, and opening the patent up for others to use was even better. I’m personally happy that if I buy a different EV make in the future, I can likely use my wife’s charger instead of having to either put an adapter and hope it works or install an entire second charging station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0101 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 I’m glad Rivian will be adopting. That was my biggest concern with my order, now I just have to wait forever for delivery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted June 20, 2023 Author Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 hour ago, outsida said: Note: The CCS in NA is different than the CCS in the rest of the world(Europe) I didn't actually realize that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 29 minutes ago, sblfilms said: Big win for Musk. The Tesla super charger network was a good call by Tesla, and opening the patent up for others to use was even better. I’m personally happy that if I buy a different EV make in the future, I can likely use my wife’s charger instead of having to either put an adapter and hope it works or install an entire second charging station. Nm misread. But the adaptors definitely work on the regular (Level 1 and 2) chargers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 56 minutes ago, Jason said: The problem is it's not a real standard as long as Tesla (or any single private entity) controls it. Doubly so since Musk is exactly the kind of person who'd abuse the situation once tons of people and companies are locked into it. Does a law need to be made in order to make something the standard? VHS eventually beat out Betamax to become the standard for video playback for almost 20 years, and it did so without the government forcing the market one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 11 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: Does a law need to be made in order to make something the standard? VHS eventually beat out Betamax to become the standard for video playback for almost 20 years, and it did so without the government forcing the market one way or another. If people drove VCRs to work, this might be an interesting comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Isn’t NACS open? Do other charging companies have to pay Tesla to put NACS in their superchargers? I don’t think so but not positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted June 20, 2023 Author Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Joe said: Isn’t NACS open? Do other charging companies have to pay Tesla to put NACS in their superchargers? I don’t think so but not positive. I couldn't quickly find any real info on that. Tesla's announcement of "opening the standard" has very little info. I'm pretty sure that no one has to pay Tesla to use it, but I also believe it remains entirely under Telsa's control. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Joe said: Nm misread. But the adaptors definitely work on the regular (Level 1 and 2) chargers! Some cars won’t charge at the full 48amp/220v output of my home charger when using an adapter. They think there is some voltage issue and basically trickle electricity in like a it’s on 15amp/110v. Seeing the market coalesce around the NACS connector makes me think manufacturers will do a better job of supporting popular charging stations like the Tesla Wall Connector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 The Tesla connector is royalty free, but not actually open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, sblfilms said: Some cars won’t charge at the full 48amp/220v output of my home charger when using an adapter. They think there is some voltage issue and basically trickle electricity in like a it’s on 15amp/110v. Seeing the market coalesce around the NACS connector makes me think manufacturers will do a better job of supporting popular charging stations like the Tesla Wall Connector. That sucks. My brother is going to pick up a Tesla Model Y tomorrow so curious how my ChargePoint charger will work for him when he comes visit and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, Joe said: That sucks. My brother is going to pick up a Tesla Model Y tomorrow so curious how my ChargePoint charger will work for him when he comes visit and vice versa. There are adapters for all these things, it shouldn't be a concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, Joe said: That sucks. My brother is going to pick up a Tesla Model Y tomorrow so curious how my ChargePoint charger will work for him when he comes visit and vice versa. I think his will charge just fine. My wife has had very few issues charging with CCS. The issue seems mostly to do with certain manufacturers and the “handshake” from the Tesla connector not being what they expect. I am curious if such a thing could be solved just with software updates by the auto manufacturers who have had issue to tell the computer to also look for the signal the Tesla connectors handshake with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remarkableriots Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marioandsonic Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 I got my hybrid 2020 Honda Insight last Thanksgiving, and I love it. I'd like to think that by the time I need a new car, the infrastructure will be able to support me getting an EV. Or maybe I'll be dead by then. Either one is fully plausible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air_Delivery Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 I will never buy an electric car if the charging standard is at the whim of pedo guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 4 hours ago, CitizenVectron said: There are adapters for all these things, it shouldn't be a concern. As sblfilms mentioned, some cars have issues connecting with NACS, my EV6 being one of them. 4 hours ago, sblfilms said: I think his will charge just fine. My wife has had very few issues charging with CCS. The issue seems mostly to do with certain manufacturers and the “handshake” from the Tesla connector not being what they expect. I am curious if such a thing could be solved just with software updates by the auto manufacturers who have had issue to tell the computer to also look for the signal the Tesla connectors handshake with. Yeah true, the issue will be on my end charging at his charger. I can get an a J1172 to NACS adapter just fine but it might not charge at full power. Same thing is happening at the new Tesla Superchargers that allow CCS cars to plug in. The EV6 and Ioniq5 are getting max 42 kwh at these stations. A combination of the handshake issues and also the Hyundai/Kia EVs being 800V and Tesla Superchargers are at 400V. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Air_Delivery said: I will never buy an electric car if the charging standard is at the whim of pedo guy. Guess you’re never buying an EV then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 7 hours ago, mclumber1 said: Does a law need to be made in order to make something the standard? VHS eventually beat out Betamax to become the standard for video playback for almost 20 years, and it did so without the government forcing the market one way or another. The market can sort out what winds up being the standard but it can't actually be a real standard under the sole control of a single company. The current path is just Tesla/pedo guy Afrikaner apartheid billionaire having monopoly control of electric car charging in North America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air_Delivery Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 25 minutes ago, Joe said: Guess you’re never buying an EV then. Looks like its headed that way. I'd go mass transport/ebike before being at the whim of pedo guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 9 minutes ago, Jason said: The market can sort out what winds up being the standard but it can't actually be a real standard under the sole control of a single company. The current path is just Tesla/pedo guy Afrikaner apartheid billionaire having monopoly control of electric car charging in North America. What is he going to do? It’s not like he can shut down non Tesla NACS chargers because he feels like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Joe said: What is he going to do? It’s not like he can shut down non Tesla NACS chargers because he feels like it. You're showing a lot of undue faith in the Afrikaner pedo guy to not find ways to abuse this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Jason said: You're showing a lot of undue faith in the Afrikaner pedo guy to not find ways to abuse this. Again, I just don’t get how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 19 hours ago, Joe said: Again, I just don’t get how. I think there could be some confusion about what NACS and CCS are in this whole eco-system. Cars choosing one physical connector over the other doesn't cede any important control to anybody. Any car company or charging station can use that physical connection pretty much however they wish. The way each manufacturer implements charging via the CCS connector, as an example, is different. That is why some cars with CCS can adapt to NACS with no issue, and some can't. And vice-versa, most of the times my wife has used CCS stations with her Model Y, it has been fine. But there are some manufacturers of charging stations that don't ever play well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 Volvo too! Volvo joins Tesla’s NACS, will adopt the connector on future EVs | Electrek ELECTREK.CO Volvo announced that it will adopt Tesla’s NACS connector on future electric vehicles starting in 2025 and for existing Volvo... Also: Tesla charging technology put on fast track to become US standard WWW.REUTERS.COM Tesla's electric-vehicle charging technology is being put on a fast track to become a North American standard, giving a further boost to the automaker's plan to expand access to its... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 Question—does Tesla control the actual standard? Or is it open in some way, allowing anyone to use it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 3 hours ago, CitizenVectron said: Question—does Tesla control the actual standard? Or is it open in some way, allowing anyone to use it? They do own it I believe, but no one has to pay them to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remarkableriots Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Elon Musk Reclaims World’s Richest Man Title From Bernard Arnault: Forbes Billionaires List 2023 WWW.GOOGLE.COM Elon Musk is the richest person in the world as of June 9, 2023, according to Forbes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 @CitizenVectron Reading that article about SAE and other sources, it seems like once NACS is standardized by SAE it will no longer be proprietary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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