General Gaming What's the most difficult Souls game?

[best3444]

23 minutes ago, nublood said:

What class did you start with? 

 

The one with the highest magic. Bacon advised me to go with that.

 

It's just too brutal. I advanced pretty decently but getting killed and starting ALL over again is a waste of my time.

[gamer.tv]

47 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

The one with the highest magic. Bacon advised me to go with that.

 

It's just too brutal. I advanced pretty decently but getting killed and starting ALL over again is a waste of my time.

It’s interesting that I feel the exact same - but back in the day, I’d happily play Sonic the Hedgehog, or the Lion King, experience the same wall and happily return the next day for more. I sometimes wonder if games like this are based played almost like rogue likes - do a run, either succeed and progress or die and learn for the next time. 

[nublood]

2 hours ago, best3444 said:

 

The one with the highest magic. Bacon advised me to go with that.

 

It's just too brutal. I advanced pretty decently but getting killed and starting ALL over again is a waste of my time.

Try starting with the Knight class. It’s a very balanced class with good defense. And if I remember, they start with the ability to cast magic as well. You may just have to purchase a spell from the guy in the nexus. Also, the sword they start with is one of the more versatile weapons in the game. Only downside is they slow roll because of their armor. Just put some points in endurance!

[Greatoneshere]

Depends on what we're considering as a "Souls" game, but in terms of From Software, it's easily Sekiro. Expanding it beyond that, it's Nioh. Some of the DLC bosses were just punishment, and it took an incredible amount of skill to win.

 

But games were way harder and far more repetitious in the NES/SNES/N64 era yet everyone whines these days when I don't remember "game being hard" as a common complaint like it is now.

[Paperclyp]

1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said:

Depends on what we're considering as a "Souls" game, but in terms of From Software, it's easily Sekiro. Expanding it beyond that, it's Nioh. Some of the DLC bosses were just punishment, and it took an incredible amount of skill to win.

 

But games were way harder and far more repetitious in the NES/SNES/N64 era yet everyone whines these days when I don't remember "game being hard" as a common complaint like it is now.

I don’t think people whine that much about difficulty today. Back then difficulty was somewhat inherent to the way games were designed, especially during the transition from arcade (designed to keep you pumping money into them) to home machines. But also there was a fraction of a fraction of discourse. It was your buddies and maybe a magazine. So if people wanted to complain there wasn’t much place to do it. 
 

Souls came along when high budget games had become so mind numbingly un-challenging that most people didn’t even recognize the genius of the formula until a few years after demons souls.  

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, Paperclyp said:

I don’t think people whine that much about difficulty today. Back then difficulty was somewhat inherent to the way games were designed, especially during the transition from arcade (designed to keep you pumping money into them) to home machines. But also there was a fraction of a fraction of discourse. It was your buddies and maybe a magazine. So if people wanted to complain there wasn’t much place to do it. 
 

Souls came along when high budget games had become so mind numbingly un-challenging that most people didn’t even recognize the genius of the formula until a few years after demons souls.  

 

I just don't understand people's desire to want to play Souls games but then complain it is inherently difficult! That is the point, so either get with the program or let the genre go. This desire to make Souls games easier is entirely against the point of their existence.

 

I agree that games were harder for a number of reasons back in the day, but we have people who played games back then complaining about the difficulty of Souls specific games today. It's weird. Astro Bot is right there, go play that.

[Paperclyp]

25 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I just don't understand people's desire to want to play Souls games but then complain it is inherently difficult! That is the point, so either get with the program or let the genre go. This desire to make Souls games easier is entirely against the point of their existence.

 

I agree that games were harder for a number of reasons back in the day, but we have people who played games back then complaining about the difficulty of Souls specific games today. It's weird. Astro Bot is right there, go play that.

lol that’s true. I think tastes change over time is part of it. Best seems to really be forcing it cuz he wants to see what the fuss is about, but when it comes down to it it seems like the games might not be for him. I’m guilty of that as any. 

[best3444]

Yea, I really loved Elden Ring but that was designed as an open world which made the game extremely approachable and forgiving. The other From software games are on another level difficulty wise and I personally can't play them. I just don't have the skills lol. I tried not to complain too much earlier but I bought Demon Souls after playing Elden Ring so my expectations were fucked and I wasted $70. 

 

Oh well. I'm jealous of you guys that can play and beat these games. I love the combat and environments in these games a lot!

[eventide11]

On 4/9/2023 at 1:21 PM, best3444 said:

Yea, I really loved Elden Ring but that was designed as an open world which made the game extremely approachable and forgiving. The other From software games are on another level difficulty wise and I personally can't play them. I just don't have the skills lol. I tried not to complain too much earlier but I bought Demon Souls after playing Elden Ring so my expectations were fucked and I wasted $70. 

 

Oh well. I'm jealous of you guys that can play and beat these games. I love the combat and environments in these games a lot!

DS has a very steep early learning curve but once you learn it the game is extremely rewarding. Once you learn that enemies do lots of damage BUT you have many ways of avoiding it altogether the game starts to make more sense 

[atom631]

I have completely fallen off with gaming and I entirely place the blame on Elden Ring. Not because I hated it…because I absolutely loved it and there really is nothing else like it out there (with the exception of BOTW, sorta). its so bad that I really haven’t enjoyed anything Ive played since…Horizon FW, God of War 2, Hogwarts….Ive played all of them and then  fall off between 10-20hrs.  They just dont scratch the itch that I have for something like Elden Ring. 

 

So I decided to give another souls a go, even though Ive tried just about all of them for a few hours and quit in frustration. 

 

So I decided, maybe stupidly…to give Sekiro another chance…and so far Im loving it. Ive beaten the first boss (dude on the horse), Lady Butterfly, The Bull and a bunch of mini bosses. Currently in the temple area, just beat the armored dude on the bridge. Also beat the guy just before Genichiro. Trying to level up once more before I fight Genichiro (tried him once and got him halfway down on his 2nd phase). What I dont like is that there really isnt builds or interesting loot to find. What I love is the level design and exploration. The whole game feels like a legacy dungeon in Elden Ring. What I also love is how liberal they are with shrines.  What turned me off to other souls games is the relentless backtracking from the start of the level every time you die. completely turned me off. This game places shrines pretty frequently or there are very obvious shortcuts to get to where you want. I can deal with the difficulty so long as I dont have to replay an entire level just to get back to the same spot. 

 

However, with all that…I fully expect to hit a wall in this game and give up. But for now, it’s scratching the ER itch. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BloodyHell]

On 4/6/2023 at 5:39 PM, best3444 said:

 

How did you do in Demon Souls? Did you play it on PS5?

Demon souls is pretty easy. . Hell, tons of it can be cheased. So is Dark Souls 1, comparatively. Once you beat the first boss, you can over level if you’re really having trouble.

[Dexterryu]

I got into the Souls Genre late with Elden Ring and after I "Got it" I bought and started playing through them all. Here is how I rank them in terms of difficulty:

1. Sekiro - I didn't get passed Genshiro. Had a vacation and then played something else and never went back to it.

2. DS2 - Just didn't feel right for me. Controls felt off and the ambushes a were too much.

3. DS1 - Mostly just the older controls.

4. Bloodborne

5. DeS Remake

6. Elden Ring - Melenia is still the hardest boss I've faced (not counting the ones I missed in Sekiro).

7. Dark Souls 3

 

As for my favorites... that's a pretty even tie between Elden Ring and BloodBorne.

[skillzdadirecta]

35 minutes ago, Dexterryu said:

1. Sekiro - I didn't get passed Genshiro. Had a vacation and then played something else and never went back to it.

Genichiro is the wall most people hit. I bought the game at launch and got to him and didn't touch the game until years later. Once I dedicated myself and beat him, the game clicks. Once you are good enough to beat Genichiro you're pretty much skilled enough to beat the rest of the game as his fight at the point teaches you all of the skills you need to beat the game. If you can beat Malena in Elden Ring (which I myself have not done) you can beat Sekiro.

[Bacon]

18 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Genichiro is the wall most people hit.

While I know this is the case, for me he was one of the easiest bosses I had fought so far. I had quite a few roadblocks before him, usually more from the levels themselves than the bosses, but even then Genny Churro wasn't so bad. Not the Owl fights... Owl 2 took me probably an hour and a half. Malena might be the only boss harder than Owl 2 for me and I think the Malena fight is not only tough but also unfair.

[atom631]

for those of you that had a hard time with Melania, were you using the mimic tear? 

 

I got her on my 2nd try and took almost no damage. I wouldve gotten her first try, but I wasn’t ready after the cut scene. 

 

I had my mimic tear at +10. and I feel like maybe I cheated myself out of a proper challenge. The bosses that game me a hard time were Placidusax, Maliketh and Elden Beast. 

 

[Dexterryu]

On 4/12/2023 at 1:17 PM, skillzdadirecta said:

Genichiro is the wall most people hit. I bought the game at launch and got to him and didn't touch the game until years later. Once I dedicated myself and beat him, the game clicks. Once you are good enough to beat Genichiro you're pretty much skilled enough to beat the rest of the game as his fight at the point teaches you all of the skills you need to beat the game. If you can beat Malena in Elden Ring (which I myself have not done) you can beat Sekiro.

 

Melenia so far is the 1 thing in Elden Ring that I cannot kill either. I've gotten close several times but 1 mistake on her waterfowl dance in you lose. That said, I've only tried it far below her recommended level of like 180.

[atom631]

I cant beat Genichiro   ive done about 10-15 attempts. I can breeze through the first deathblow phase, but for some reason, the 2nd deathblow phase is kicking my ass. I cant read what periless attack he is going to do. it seems he stops doing the thrust, which is easy to mikiri. he seems to start doing a grab, kick or sweep. and i cant counter them. and once I step back to heal, I seem to never recover. 

 

i will say I was trying to save my rez for the lightning phase, but I think if I rez during the 2nd deathblow save, I would get it back. so I have to try again. 

 

whats funny is on like my 2-3 attempt I got to the lightning phase and had him down like 3/4. then he OHK me with that huge lightning aoe attack. I thought for sure I just needed another try or two to get him and i was never able to get back to that phase again. 

[Bacon]

On 4/13/2023 at 8:08 AM, atom631 said:

were you using the mimic tear? 

nah, the mimic tear was too ez mode

i only used the mimic tear on reused bosses

So I ended up using it on more bosses than not LOL

[nublood]

8 hours ago, atom631 said:

I cant beat Genichiro   ive done about 10-15 attempts. I can breeze through the first deathblow phase, but for some reason, the 2nd deathblow phase is kicking my ass. I cant read what periless attack he is going to do. it seems he stops doing the thrust, which is easy to mikiri. he seems to start doing a grab, kick or sweep. and i cant counter them. and once I step back to heal, I seem to never recover. 

 

i will say I was trying to save my rez for the lightning phase, but I think if I rez during the 2nd deathblow save, I would get it back. so I have to try again. 

 

whats funny is on like my 2-3 attempt I got to the lightning phase and had him down like 3/4. then he OHK me with that huge lightning aoe attack. I thought for sure I just needed another try or two to get him and i was never able to get back to that phase again. 

This is where I stopped as well. And this post also reminds me why I deleted the game from existence. In terms of gaming, I’ve just got better things to do. 

[atom631]

15 hours ago, nublood said:

This is where I stopped as well. And this post also reminds me why I deleted the game from existence. In terms of gaming, I’ve just got better things to do. 

 

I just finally got him!! jesus christ I was shaking like a leaf. 

 

once you figure out lighting reversal in the 3rd phase it isnt terrible bc it does massive posture damage to him. and you have to play that phase with more room unlike first 2 where you need to keep the pressure on. if you create room, he does the lunge which is easy to mikiri or he jumps and does lightning. once I got the timing I cleaned up on him. 

[gamer.tv]

Stupid thread making me want to download Bloodborne even though I’m absolute shite at it. 

[skillzdadirecta]

53 minutes ago, atom631 said:

 

I just finally got him!! jesus christ I was shaking like a leaf. 

 

once you figure out lighting reversal in the 3rd phase it isnt terrible bc it does massive posture damage to him. and you have to play that phase with more room unlike first 2 where you need to keep the pressure on. if you create room, he does the lunge which is easy to mikiri or he jumps and does lightning. once I got the timing I cleaned up on him. 

 

You figured it out. Once you master the lightening counter he's toast. As I said before, beating him pretty much gives you all of the tools to beat the rest of the game. There's really only a handful of situations that are gonna give you trouble after him, but if you can beat him, you can beat the game. Keep going!

[HardAct]

On 4/7/2023 at 1:54 PM, best3444 said:

I'm going to attempt this tomorrow and see how I do. I'm actually kinda nervous.  😓 

     I feel you and I are quite similar in gaming preferences and play style. I own them all except for Sekiro 2 but only beat Demon Souls {Way back when it was released and I had a hard time too} and Bloodborne. I tend to try and over level to get through these games as my reflexes have never been up to what these games demand. I still have Elden Ring installed and never played one Series X. I started Demon Souls on PS5 though just about an hour ago and I am already getting owned. Kinda like I remember it anyway! Best of luck to you sir. As for Dark Souls 1, 2 & 3 I own them, and I did attempt them but sadly the just kicked my ass way to much to stick with them. Sucks as I wanted to be able to say I played and beat them but I know better even though I own them. That's because though, I own pretty much everything. Owned pretty much everything, correction. You know that FUCKING fire and all....... 

[Dexterryu]

On 4/8/2023 at 9:45 PM, Greatoneshere said:

 

I just don't understand people's desire to want to play Souls games but then complain it is inherently difficult! That is the point, so either get with the program or let the genre go. This desire to make Souls games easier is entirely against the point of their existence.

 

I agree that games were harder for a number of reasons back in the day, but we have people who played games back then complaining about the difficulty of Souls specific games today. It's weird. Astro Bot is right there, go play that.

 

On 4/8/2023 at 10:12 PM, Paperclyp said:

lol that’s true. I think tastes change over time is part of it. Best seems to really be forcing it cuz he wants to see what the fuss is about, but when it comes down to it it seems like the games might not be for him. I’m guilty of that as any. 

 

It really depends on why parts of them are difficult. When I look at Elden Ring, BB, DS1 / DS3, and DeS I feel like the difficulty is fair. On the other hand DS2 went overboard and over indexed on the difficulty. For example most of the games had ambushes that punished you for rushing ahead too quickly, not watching corners, or other silly things like getting greedy. DS2 on the other hand had coordinated ambushes from multiple angles that would kill you in seconds even if you were prepared and knew they were coming. Combine that to the fact that dying slowly reduced your health made it punishing to explore and diminished what is a cool part of all of the souls games. Sekiro is the game that I haven't listed because it IS more of the type of game that's either for you or it's not since there is really just 1 build and no way to take a different approach.

[Greatoneshere]

15 minutes ago, Dexterryu said:

 

 

It really depends on why parts of them are difficult. When I look at Elden Ring, BB, DS1 / DS3, and DeS I feel like the difficulty is fair. On the other hand DS2 went overboard and over indexed on the difficulty. For example most of the games had ambushes that punished you for rushing ahead too quickly, not watching corners, or other silly things like getting greedy. DS2 on the other hand had coordinated ambushes from multiple angles that would kill you in seconds even if you were prepared and knew they were coming. Combine that to the fact that dying slowly reduced your health made it punishing to explore and diminished what is a cool part of all of the souls games. Sekiro is the game that I haven't listed because it IS more of the type of game that's either for you or it's not since there is really just 1 build and no way to take a different approach.

 

I agree it depends, different games are difficult in different ways, my point is in whatever way a specific game is difficult, that's the intended point. If they nailed the right balance or not is a different question in terms of the difficulty, but desiring a game or genre to be easier when the point is that it should be hard even for veterans who play games a lot is silly to me.

[Dexterryu]

8 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I agree it depends, different games are difficult in different ways, my point is in whatever way a specific game is difficult, that's the intended point. If they nailed the right balance or not is a different question in terms of the difficulty, but desiring a game or genre to be easier when the point is that it should be hard even for veterans who play games a lot is silly to me.

 

And I think this is the difference between difficult and punishing. Let's look at DS2 vs Sekiro. I'm chosing these because these are the only two FromSoftware games that I personally put down. Sekiro is very difficult and I wouldn't want it changed to be easier. It's difficulty is very high, but fair. DS2 is punishing. The Devs overly leaned into the popularity of DS1's difficulty and made it punishing.

I put Sekiro down because it demanded a skillset that I felt was beyond me. I put DS2 down because it punished me by making itself more difficult after every death... IMHO there is a reason why this mechanic hasn't returned in any other FromSoftware game. Difficult is fine and fun. Punishing turns most people away.

[Greatoneshere]

3 hours ago, Dexterryu said:

 

And I think this is the difference between difficult and punishing. Let's look at DS2 vs Sekiro. I'm chosing these because these are the only two FromSoftware games that I personally put down. Sekiro is very difficult and I wouldn't want it changed to be easier. It's difficulty is very high, but fair. DS2 is punishing. The Devs overly leaned into the popularity of DS1's difficulty and made it punishing.

I put Sekiro down because it demanded a skillset that I felt was beyond me. I put DS2 down because it punished me by making itself more difficult after every death... IMHO there is a reason why this mechanic hasn't returned in any other FromSoftware game. Difficult is fine and fun. Punishing turns most people away.

 

Right - my issue is people online wanting all of the above games to be easier, DS2, Sekiro, etc. Yes, some games are more difficult/punishing, but I've seen people say any and all of these games are super hard and they wish they weren't. I agree with you Sekiro is very difficult - punishing? I didn't feel that way - but every gamer is different. I wouldn't include you among the people who wish the entire genre, from Demon's Souls to Bloodborne to Sekiro, were all easier.

[Dexterryu]

3 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Right - my issue is people online wanting all of the above games to be easier, DS2, Sekiro, etc. Yes, some games are more difficult/punishing, but I've seen people say any and all of these games are super hard and they wish they weren't. I agree with you Sekiro is very difficult - punishing? I didn't feel that way - but every gamer is different. I wouldn't include you among the people who wish the entire genre, from Demon's Souls to Bloodborne to Sekiro, were all easier.

 

I think we're aligned. I contrasted Sekiro as difficult where DS2 as punishing. DS2 IMHO was an entire game modeled after Sen's Fortress.