Cousin of BLM co-founder dies after being tased by cop.

[DarkStar189]

10 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

He wasn't violent so he's no threat to bystanders. If anything it shouldn't have gotten to that part. Running off wasn't the beginning. He should have listened and talked to the guy and engaged with him so that he wouldn't have run off in the first place. That guy needed comfort and reassurance not someone yelling at him the whole time.

With as paranoid as he sounded talking on the sidewalk, could any amount of comforting from a stranger change his mind from running away? Maybe/maybe not. I wish he would have just continued sitting on the sidewalk.

[Jason]

40 minutes ago, thewhyteboar said:

I feel the only music you listen to is Wagner and Gregorian chants.

 

2 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

He also listens to Holst, I am sure.

 

He like Rammstein. Possibly Ghost?

[Keyser_Soze]

16 minutes ago, DarkStar189 said:

With as paranoid as he sounded talking on the sidewalk, could any amount of comforting from a stranger change his mind from running away? Maybe/maybe not.

 

We will never know because the officer didn't even try.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

31 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

 

He like Rammstein. Possibly Ghost?

 

And power metal.

[Keyser_Soze]

6 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

And power metal.

 

And Dark Tranquillity!

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

You are never going to convince me that a situation where an individual is on the ground with at least two police officers applying their body weight to subdue him constitutes one where the police aren't in at least "nominal" control of the situation, even if the individual is mildly resisting/struggling as was the situation here.

[thewhyteboar]

Cops suck so much money out of city budgets, have so much manpower, so many resources, yet their solution to everything just boils down to killing the people who pay their salaries. How does any of that make sense? Might as well just give your local methhead a badge and a gun, cause you’ll get the same result as you would with your thin blue line, Punisher-tatted, wife-abusing sworn officer of the law. 

[TUFKAK]

9 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Are nurses required to learn how to physically subdue a resisting person in similar ways to police officers? I have no idea.

 

In this particular situation, it seems the officers on his back have really solid control over the guy. The initial threat to deploy the taser was when he was face up and the officer told him to roll over, or else. They in short order do get him rolled over, so their control over him to that point was good. Nothing once his is rolled over seems to hunt that they were losing control of him.

 

I think the officer was already annoyed by the guy and just wanted compliance as quickly as possible. That just reminded of one of the things I remember from a conversation with a long time HPD officer that I hire for security jobs from time to time. After one of these police/citizen altercation videos blew up, I was chatting with him and I asked what he would have done differently and he said something g to the effect of “slow it all down, there is no rush, you aren’t about to run out of time.”

 

This does seem to be a common feature of many of these situations, an officer who just has no patience for the behavior of the person they are dealing with. That is understandable as a human, but part of the job should be to use violence only when necessary, not because it is expedient.

It was always the expectation. As in a patient is on an involuntary hold, so legally not allowed to leave, if they try to leave and deescalation fails what’s the next recourse? Restraint application. It goes without saying that someone being placed in restraints isn’t complying so the application of physical force was required. Aka tackle them, hold them down, restrain them. In that situation you’re always at risk of injury and despite what it may appear, as in the individual is down, we still do not have control of the situation. I’ve been head butted, spat on, sensitive parts grabbed etc all the while people here would say “you had control.”

 

We adamantly refuse to do this anymore in my dept but I assure you it’s the standard in the nation. I’m not a jailer or a cop, call them to deal with it.

 

the only issue I see in the video is too many people giving commands, it’s confusing at that point and over stimulating. 
 

The time argument goes out the window when he ran into traffic imo, 

[finaljedi]

The problem is the cops seem to see tasers as people remotes and they just lean on those instead of using them as a less lethal gun alternative.  I've also never been fond of the "everyone yelling at their target" approach that seems to be a cornerstone of their training.

[CitizenVectron]

In retrospect, Bane trapping all the cops underground was a good thing.

[MarSolo]

This is the guy that called the cops for himself after he was in a car accident right?

 

He was unarmed, possibly concussed. What was he going to do, hurt their feelings?

 

Jesus Christ, some of you act like cops don’t know how to, you know, do hand to hand combat or something.

[Keyser_Soze]

39 minutes ago, finaljedi said:

The problem is the cops seem to see tasers as people remotes and they just lean on those instead of using them as a less lethal gun alternative.  I've also never been fond of the "everyone yelling at their target" approach that seems to be a cornerstone of their training.

 

They played too much Syphon Filter

 

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

I guess I'm seeing something different in that video.

 

Cop arrives and person is standing in middle of the street.  He quickly starts raving, acting erratically and talking in a way that makes no sense.  It sure looks he is having paranoid delusions -- perhaps even hallucinations and looks like a heck of a lot like a meth/coke driven psychotic episode.  Maybe one of the medical people here could tell me that those come across as way different -- but that's not how any 'concussed' person I've dealt with acts.

 

He runs out into traffic again, and seems to shrug off a police taser like its nothing.  And keeps resisting/raving while on the ground.  What how are cops supposed to deal with someone, when tasers initially have little effect?

 

 

[Keyser_Soze]

 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

As many have noted, the police are somehow able to capture white dudes who just massacred a store/school/etc without a single scratch. They can do it when they want to. It isn’t a training issue.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

As many have noted, the police are somehow able to capture white dudes who just massacred a store/school/etc without a single scratch. They can do it when they want to. It isn’t a training issue.

its professional courtesy for their fellow travelers 

[Keyser_Soze]

2 hours ago, sblfilms said:

As many have noted, the police are somehow able to capture white dudes who just massacred a store/school/etc without a single scratch. They can do it when they want to. It isn’t a training issue.

 

Training not to shoot and kill black people is still training

[TUFKAK]

Uh, when you pull that trigger you’re intending to kill. Every boot ass marine knows this.

 

I just give more grace on these topics as I’ve been in these situations before, I know deescalation doesn’t always work and choices made in real time are easy to second guess after. 
 

The structural issues should be addressed but it’s not always structural, it’s often choices made in real time that go bad.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Once a weapon is drawn, the intent if the trigger is pulled should always be 100% to aim at the center of mass for a kill shot.

 

Hell, I'd argue that if the weapon is drawn, then that Rubicon has already been crossed.

 

There is absolutely no such thing as "shoot to wound".

 

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Training not to shoot and kill black people is still training

There is no amount of training that will stop these goons from desiring to harm people. The problem is far too many people who want to be police are predisposed to be authoritarians.

[TUFKAK]

46 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Once a weapon is drawn, the intent if the trigger is pulled should always be 100% to aim at the center of mass for a kill shot.

 

Hell, I'd argue that if the weapon is drawn, then that Rubicon has already been crossed.

 

There is absolutely no such thing as "shoot to wound".

 

Pull a weapon and move past a low alert and that’s absolutely deadly intent imo. It progresses from brandishing to intent to harm.

[TUFKAK]

1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

There is no amount of training that will stop these goons from desiring to harm people. The problem is far too many people who want to be police are predisposed to be authoritarians.

I’m no fan of LE but can we not paint with a broad brush here? I have known and worked with many great officers in my career.

[unogueen]

2 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

I’m no fan of LE but can we not paint with a broad brush here? I have known and worked with many great officers in my career.

I have many nursing friends and despite the image the industry is filled with people rotten to the core. And unlike healthcare, which is *essential*, police departments deserve nowhere near their budget when their overall efficacy, when they 'try', is a sad 10% at best. The nature of crime means that a reactive force is useless against most agrievers, and suspiciously poised to disrupt large movements.

[TUFKAK]

Just now, unogueen said:

I have many nursing friends and despite the image the industry is filled with people rotten to the core. And unlike healthcare, which is *essential*, police departments deserve nowhere near their budget when their overall efficacy, when they 'try', is a sad 10% at best. The nature of crime means that a reactive force is useless against most agrievers, and suspiciously poised to disrupt large movements.

I mean? Ok on the first 😂

 

People are people some suck the end. I’m in no way attached to my career title so weird direction to take it. I’m here for the money; I’m just good at it.

[unogueen]

2 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

I mean? Ok on the first 😂

 

People are people some suck the end. I’m in no way attached to my career title so weird direction to take it. I’m here for the money; I’m just good at it.

Cops are not behaving as they should, and they're a bad waste of funding. If they want to be valuable to society, maybe help out in ways that don't involve systemic oppression.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Thanks to our wonderful conservatives on the Supreme Court, Cops in this country have zero legal obligation to do anything other than protect themselves and they all know this. Anytime they get involved it is to get off on their power often but not always under the guise of “enforcing the law”. Add in that they’re actually bad at the one stated job that is societally useful (investigating crime that has already been committed) 

[TUFKAK]

1 hour ago, unogueen said:

Cops are not behaving as they should, and they're a bad waste of funding. If they want to be valuable to society, maybe help out in ways that don't involve systemic oppression.

Cops aren’t the cause of systems. There’s a saying I whole heartedly agree with “I trust individuals not institutions.

 

yeah like this oppressor right?

 

[unogueen]

16 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

Cops aren’t the cause of systems. There’s a saying I whole heartedly agree with “I trust individuals not institutions.

 

yeah like this oppressor right?

 

I understand sentimentality. The men in uniform are the same men at the bank. They can hate their jobs, their volition and their productivity, but none of those will stop the bank. It is a systemic issue, and cops are the public facing side of an eroding social contract. This is a bad thing.

[TUFKAK]

3 minutes ago, unogueen said:

I understand sentimentality. The men in uniform are the same men at the bank. They can hate their jobs, their volition and their productivity, but none of those will stop the bank. It is a systemic issue, and cops are the public facing side of an eroding social contract. This is a bad thing.

I refuse to blame a part of the machine for the whole of the machine.

[unogueen]

What we have now is a pasteurized semblance of society. The post war economy was so hard driven by absolute growth that things DID change in a short time. But much like climate change, the reconstruction is faster than adaptation. This is a REAL point of inflection whether we want to continue as a species or not.

[unogueen]

We live in a caste society. People will bark. So do we stop after we salt the earth?

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

1 hour ago, TUFKAK said:

I refuse to blame a part of the machine for the whole of the machine.

No drop of rain thinks they are responsible for a flood

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

13 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

No drop of rain thinks they are responsible for a flood

 

I AM THE LIVING INCARNATION OF THE AMERICAN MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX WAR MACHINE!

[TUFKAK]

3 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

No drop of rain thinks they are responsible for a flood

And we are all responsible for the propagation of said flood. Structural changes are possible but nobody is willing to pay the price to achieve it. 

[Jason]

4 hours ago, TUFKAK said:

I refuse to blame a part of the machine for the whole of the machine.

 

"Not all cops" would be a valid argument if the "good" cops didn't actively cover for the pigs.