Cousin of BLM co-founder dies after being tased by cop.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, TUFKAK said:

I’m no fan of LE but can we not paint with a broad brush here? I have known and worked with many great officers in my career.

Re-read what I wrote. It isn’t broad at all and not in conflict with your position in this post. I’m not an ACABer. The issue of excessive force by police officers is a subset of the whole, and the driver of bad shoots (and other excessive force incidents) are the authoritarian types that are looking for opportunities to exert their power over people.

 

My view isn’t that all police are rotten, but policing itself in America is. The rotten core is what allows for those authoritarian goons to find a safe place for their evil deeds, even if many or even most police officers are decent people. Just watch modern police training seminars and you’ll quickly understand how the bad guys take advantage of the role to abuse the public with little recourse.

[skillzdadirecta]

Hooboy this thread... some of the takes in here

 

Any body watch the show Body Cam on ID? There's was an episode this past weekend where cops where in a similar situation. In fact their situation was WORSE. The suspect was in an enclosed public space, a supermarket, there were other civilians around and he had a weapon, a knife. When the cops showed up, not only did the guy refuse to drop the knife, he walked TOWARDS the cops with the knife still in his hand. They had their guns drawn and tased the guy TWICE. No effect. He pulled the taser pins out like he was fucking Jason or something. They kept their distance and kept their weapons on him and eventually talked the dude down... deescalating the encounter. They took him into custody, no shots fired and nobody dead. The guy was having some kind of mental break and was sent to treatment. These cops did EVERYTHING right and at the end of the segment, they talked about how this encounter is used to teach deescalation at academies across the country. The problem is the first thing rookies are told by their training officers when they start the job is to forget everything they were taught in training and to focus on protecting themselves  and their fellow officers... Not the public.

 

For all of the people saying that they guy "kept resisting" even after he was on the ground and the cops had no choice because "he wouldn't comply", you know who else made that same argument? Derek Chauvin. So did the Rodney King cops  

 

Also i like the fact that the assumption is the dude was ON drugs rather than being potentially OFF any drugs that may keep his mental problems in check. Anything to make the facism go down smooth 

[Keyser_Soze]

3 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Also i like the fact that the assumption is the dude was ON drugs rather than being potentially OFF any drugs that may keep his mental problems in check. Anything to make the facism go down smooth 

 

True true, I did say something of that nature but yeah he could be someone that is off medication. In any case he needed any type of help and unfortunately did not get it.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Hooboy this thread... some of the takes in here

 

Any body watch the show Body Cam on ID? There's was an episode this past weekend where cops where in a similar situation. In fact their situation was WORSE. The suspect was in an enclosed public space, a supermarket, there were other civilians around and he had a weapon, a knife. When the cops showed up, not only did the guy refuse to drop the knife, he walked TOWARDS the cops with the knife still in his hand. They had their guns drawn and tased the guy TWICE. No effect. He pulled the taser pins out like he was fucking Jason or something. They kept their distance and kept their weapons on him and eventually talked the dude down... deescalating the encounter. They took him into custody, no shots fired and nobody dead. The guy was having some kind of mental break and was sent to treatment. These cops did EVERYTHING right and at the end of the segment, they talked about how this encounter is used to teach deescalation at academies across the country. The problem is the first thing rookies are told by their training officers when they start the job is to forget everything they were taught in training and to focus on protecting themselves  and their fellow officers... Not the public.

 

 

 

This story is great. I already forgot if I mentioned this earlier in the thread or not, but a Houston PD vet I hire from time to time for private security jobs was out working for me one time during a concert. He and I always chop it up a bit, and I ended up asking him his thoughts on being both a Black man in America and a police officer in the midst of the BLM protests and all the events that were the catalyst for them.

 

He made a great point about one of the things that would change the outcome in so many of these situations, and it is exercising some patience. When you see these videos of use of force, they typically go from non-violent to shouting to violent in 60-90 seconds or even less. “What is the hurry?” he kept asking.

 

The video @TUFKAKposted earlier today was another good example of giving a situation some time to cool down. These officers already know how to do these things, they simply choose not to in certain circumstances and it always ends worse than it needs to.

[skillzdadirecta]

6 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 I ended up asking him his thoughts on being both a Black man in America and a police officer in the midst of the BLM protests and all the events that were the catalyst for them.

 

 

I asked my dad the same thing around that time and he said something similar. He also added that a lot of these cops are "scared shitless" and they don't see the public as being people that they serve but as potential enemies and threats ESPECIALLY if they are not a part of the community they are working in. My Dad had a reputation for being INCREDIBLY patient when he was on the job so much that when he arrested someone the other officers would say to the perp that "you MUST have done something bad if Muslim brought you in"  Muslim was his nickname on the street. My Dad was also a Cop in the neighborhood he grew up in so he felt real comfortable on those streets. It makes a difference. My Grandmother was a black female cop in the 70's and 80's and she has some of the same stories and outlook. I also asked him why it was so hard to weed out bad cops and he said it was because often they were protected. Some senior officer or upper brass would have certain cops under his wing that he looked out for and protected and the Policeman's Union is probably the ONE union that I am against and think should be abolished. They also actively protect bad cops. You guys have NO IDEA some of the fucked up shit I've heard and still hear. I know so many people in law Enforcement and if they can tell you the problems with the police better than anyone else. They HAVE to go along because it's literally a matter of life and death if they are seen as being "snitches" or something. Its no joke.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

There was absolutely zero reason for the officers involved in the situation that was the catalyst for this thread to not exercise patience, even after he bolted into the traffic as the individual wasn't a threat to anyone other than perhaps himself.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

16 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

they don't see the public as being people that they serve but as potential enemies and threats ESPECIALLY if they are not a part of the community they are working in. 

 

This perception of the public -- and let's be real: this primarily applies to minority/marginalized groups -- as the "enemy" has only gotten worse as police forces have worked with former military consultants who specialize in instructing them in counter-insurgency (COIN) techniques that were developed for and evolved in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

The truly "amusing" thing is that a key element of the successful execution of those COIN techniques is to make every effort to win the "hearts and minds" of populations from whom the insurgents are likely to be drawn.  Perhaps unsurprisingly, this particular facet of COIN OPS genuinely appears to be lost on a not-insignificant number of American police departments.

[skillzdadirecta]

4 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

This perception of the public -- and let's be real: this primarily applies to minority/marginalized groups -- as the "enemy" has only gotten worse as police forces have worked with former military consultants who specialize in instructing them in counter-insurgency (COIN) techniques that were developed for and evolved in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

The truly "amusing" thing is that a key element of the successful execution of those COIN techniques is to make every effort to win the "hearts and minds" of population from whom the insurgents are likely to be drawn.  Perhaps unsurprisingly, this particular facet of COIN OPS genuinely appears to be lost on a not-insignificant number of American police departments.

Also White Supremacists have successfully infiltrated a not insignificant percentage of our military and Law enforcement apparatus. The FBI actually delivered a report on this awhile back and it was sqaushed by Republicans in Congress.

 

Found one of MANY articles talking about this.

 

Prevalence of white supremacists in law enforcement demands drastic change

WWW.REUTERS.COM

---

A Reuters investigation on May 6 indicates that a significant number of U.S. police instructors have ties to a constellation of armed right-wing militias and white supremacist hate groups, a report that adds to a fast-growing body of evidence showing a deadly threat inside U.S. police departments.

 

[TUFKAK]

2 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Re-read what I wrote. It isn’t broad at all and not in conflict with your position in this post. I’m not an ACABer. The issue of excessive force by police officers is a subset of the whole, and the driver of bad shoots (and other excessive force incidents) are the authoritarian types that are looking for opportunities to exert their power over people.

 

My view isn’t that all police are rotten, but policing itself in America is. The rotten core is what allows for those authoritarian goons to find a safe place for their evil deeds, even if many or even most police officers are decent people. Just watch modern police training seminars and you’ll quickly understand how the bad guys take advantage of the role to abuse the public with little recourse.

It wasn’t clear in the I total post to me, I withdraw the critique.

 

As for the rest, I take it further, there’s something fundamentally wrong with America, to paraphrase the late great Georgie carlin, maybe something else sucks around here.

 

This mindset isn’t new, it’s existed since before the gilded age and is a direct result of our economic model which even the ferengi would be embarrassed of. It centers our entire culture and dehumanizes everyone in it. There have always been exploitable bodies in this nation, they’ve almost always been brown bodies, walk by any vineyard now to see this play out today. but we’ve extended this out further. The fact the term human capital even exists is proof of this. We’ve reduced people to economic inputs to be exploited for a ledger sheet and quarterly profits. Muscle has always been used to protect the interests of the owner class, from long before the Pinkertons were a thought. LE today enforces the social order that allows this extreme level of income inequality which is fundamentally their role. Not serving the public, but promoting social stability so economic exchange can occur.
 

We all support, even classical marxists like me, this system and by focusing on LE only we allow our sins to go unchecked. I’m probably one of the worst offenders as I participate in a system I’m opposed to but I won’t trade my comfort and abundance that I’ve achieved. I’m not trading my ability to travel abroad multiple times and own two homes, let alone my prime delivery, and nobody else will either, until there’s wider support for it as right now I’m just shouting in the desert and while I do what I can, union participation, help unionize other sites, give to multiple charities, I still do it in a system that is predicated on exploitation and human misery.

 

1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Hooboy this thread... some of the takes in here

 

Any body watch the show Body Cam on ID? There's was an episode this past weekend where cops where in a similar situation. In fact their situation was WORSE. The suspect was in an enclosed public space, a supermarket, there were other civilians around and he had a weapon, a knife. When the cops showed up, not only did the guy refuse to drop the knife, he walked TOWARDS the cops with the knife still in his hand. They had their guns drawn and tased the guy TWICE. No effect. He pulled the taser pins out like he was fucking Jason or something. They kept their distance and kept their weapons on him and eventually talked the dude down... deescalating the encounter. They took him into custody, no shots fired and nobody dead. The guy was having some kind of mental break and was sent to treatment. These cops did EVERYTHING right and at the end of the segment, they talked about how this encounter is used to teach deescalation at academies across the country. The problem is the first thing rookies are told by their training officers when they start the job is to forget everything they were taught in training and to focus on protecting themselves  and their fellow officers... Not the public.

 

For all of the people saying that they guy "kept resisting" even after he was on the ground and the cops had no choice because "he wouldn't comply", you know who else made that same argument? Derek Chauvin. So did the Rodney King cops  

 

Also i like the fact that the assumption is the dude was ON drugs rather than being potentially OFF any drugs that may keep his mental problems in check. Anything to make the facism go down smooth 

All I’ve said is I find it hard to critique decisions made in real time as I’ve been there many times.

 

let me just give a recent example.

 

i was at work, heard screaming from the front part of the dept, I started walking there rounded a corner to see a guy attacking a security guard; nobody but one other nurse, a tiny female, was there. I had legit two seconds to assess and act. I jumped onto the guy, placed him in a submission hold, took him to the ground. While there he “continued to resist” guy legit went for my testicles. At this point it’s two against one, he’s on the ground with two people on him, and he’s still trying to cause bodily harm. Under the force escalation continuum I was taught I would’ve been legally covered to escalate the violence further. Aka pain compliance. I did increase my submission pressure and reshifted my body weight to control that arm. He continued fighting. It took another, id guess minute, for more guards to arrive. In that time I had to continued to apply increasing pressure to subdue him and even had to use a leg lock to control his knee. All the while some moron in the lobby who just started paying attention started screaming about us hurting him.

 

Ultimately guy was a meth washout who attacked the security guard because he wanted a bed and he wasn’t getting one. Now, assume the security guard instigated the attack, I jump on. I’m now held to the same level as him because I participated despite having no idea what the cause of this was when I acted to protect a colleague. I made a choice in real time that could’ve been wrong but I acted with limited data. It’s easy to second guess after the fact, the real world isn’t that way.

 

Should I have just let him knee the guard in the head, squeeze at my testicles because I outweighed him by like 60 pounds and therefore has control of the situation? Despite the jokes you can continue to resist and cause grievous bodily harm despite the appearance to the contrary.

 

Theres another point here, not every nurse has my training and experience, just like not every cop has the same training or experience or even mindset. In my dept we’re required to be taught deescalation, useful, and cpi, useless af and written by someone who has never been in a fight in their lives. But not every floor has this training despite the violence there.
 

Ultimately though the reactions I’m seeing here are part of the reason that, unless a colleague is being attacked, I do not go hands on ever. The other is I’m not getting hurt over these people, I tore my tfcc joint two years ago during a takedown for reference. We’re still down three nurses with injuries ranging from frozen finger to fractured vertebral body( in that case the patient was in restraints but managed to get enough force and slack to kick the nurse in the chest) “still resisting” while the finger happened when this nurse was one of five on top after the patient wretched the finger in such a way to cause permanent injury. Guess who was back there the following week?

 

We can discuss retraining, standards etc and I’m all in favor of pursuing that goal. But be subjected to this abuse every shift, yes every, your mindset changes which is why I no longer participate. I can understand why LE would go to pain  compliance as a first recourse. We are ultimately, still human.

 

and before anyone says, get another job, in my career field many are. There’s a projected 500k nurse shortage by 25 with a sizable percentage of that coming from critical care/inpatient. 

[skillzdadirecta]

15 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

It wasn’t clear in the I total post to me, I withdraw the critique.

 

As for the rest, I take it further, there’s something fundamentally wrong with America, to paraphrase the late great Georgie carlin, maybe something else sucks around here.

 

This mindset isn’t new, it’s existed since before the gilded age and is a direct result of our economic model which even the ferengi would be embarrassed of. It centers our entire culture and dehumanizes everyone in it. There have always been exploitable bodies in this nation, they’ve almost always been brown bodies, walk by any vineyard now to see this play out today. but we’ve extended this out further. The fact the term human capital even exists is proof of this. We’ve reduced people to economic inputs to be exploited for a ledger sheet and quarterly profits. Muscle has always been used to protect the interests of the owner class, from long before the Pinkertons were a thought. LE today enforces the social order that allows this extreme level of income inequality which is fundamentally their role. Not serving the public, but promoting social stability so economic exchange can occur.
 

We all support, even classical marxists like me, this system and by focusing on LE only we allow our sins to go unchecked. I’m probably one of the worst offenders as I participate in a system I’m opposed to but I won’t trade my comfort and abundance that I’ve achieved. I’m not trading my ability to travel abroad multiple times and own two homes, let alone my prime delivery, and nobody else will either, until there’s wider support for it as right now I’m just shouting in the desert and while I do what I can, union participation, help unionize other sites, give to multiple charities, I still do it in a system that is predicated on exploitation and human misery.

 

All I’ve said is I find it hard to critique decisions made in real time as I’ve been there many times.

 

let me just give a recent example.

 

i was at work, heard screaming from the front part of the dept, I started walking there rounded a corner to see a guy attacking a security guard; nobody but one other nurse, a tiny female, was there. I had legit two seconds to assess and act. I jumped onto the guy, placed him in a submission hold, took him to the ground. While there he “continued to resist” guy legit went for my testicles. At this point it’s two against one, he’s on the ground with two people on him, and he’s still trying to cause bodily harm. Under the force escalation continuum I was taught I would’ve been legally covered to escalate the violence further. Aka pain compliance. I did increase my submission pressure and reshifted my body weight to control that arm. He continued fighting. It took another, id guess minute, for more guards to arrive. In that time I had to continued to apply increasing pressure to subdue him and even had to use a leg lock to control his knee. All the while some moron in the lobby who just started paying attention started screaming about us hurting him.

 

Ultimately guy was a meth washout who attacked the security guard because he wanted a bed and he wasn’t getting one. Now, assume the security guard instigated the attack, I jump on. I’m now held to the same level as him because I participated despite having no idea what the cause of this was when I acted to protect a colleague. I made a choice in real time that could’ve been wrong but I acted with limited data. It’s easy to second guess after the fact, the real world isn’t that way.

 

Should I have just let him knee the guard in the head, squeeze at my testicles because I outweighed him by like 60 pounds and therefore has control of the situation? Despite the jokes you can continue to resist and cause grievous bodily harm despite the appearance to the contrary.

 

Theres another point here, not every nurse has my training and experience, just like not every cop has the same training or experience or even mindset. In my dept we’re required to be taught deescalation, useful, and cpi, useless af and written by someone who has never been in a fight in their lives. But not every floor has this training despite the violence there.
 

Ultimately though the reactions I’m seeing here are part of the reason that, unless a colleague is being attacked, I do not go hands on ever. The other is I’m not getting hurt over these people, I tore my tfcc joint two years ago during a takedown for reference. We’re still down three nurses with injuries ranging from frozen finger to fractured vertebral body( in that case the patient was in restraints but managed to get enough force and slack to kick the nurse in the chest) “still resisting” while the finger happened when this nurse was one of five on top after the patient wretched the finger in such a way to cause permanent injury. Guess who was back there the following week?

 

We can discuss retraining, standards etc and I’m all in favor of pursuing that goal. But be subjected to this abuse every shift, yes every, your mindset changes which is why I no longer participate. I can understand why LE would go to pain  compliance as a first recourse. We are ultimately, still human.

 

and before anyone says, get another job, in my career field many are. There’s a projected 500k nurse shortage by 25 with a sizable percentage of that coming from critical care/inpatient. 

I respect your experience and perspective but what does any of this have to do with Law enforcement? You're a nurse. You don't have the same role in society that Cops have. We LITERALLY give police officers the power of life and death and it is THEIR DUTY to wield that power responsibly. Unfortunately they don't and that's BEFORE you factor in the inherent racial biases built into Police Culture which dates back to the times of slavery (look it up; Police relationship to Slave patrol)

 

I've heard you say that you are your fiance is black. I don't know if you guys ever plan on having kids but if you do, do YOU trust today's police force in this country to treat them fairly? Would you be comfortable with any mixed race offspring of yours having ANY interaction with Cops in this country? Yes police are human, but we should expect MORE from them given all the evidence we've seen in the last ten years ALONE and I truly believe that they have lost the benefit of the doubt.

 

Again I get where you're coming from... your job sounds tough as hell... My Sister works with people with Special needs, mostly Autistic Teens and Adults and she has similar stories of being hit and having to restrain unruly clients. She has also developed ways to control her anger and her frustration because THAT'S WHAT THE JOB DEMANDS. She also doesn't carry a gun. I don't think Cops should be held to the same standard as her or YOU for that matter. My niece just graduated from Nursing school and just started working at a hospital in the NICU. Hopefully she stays there because your job sounds like hell. As far as Cops go, we need a national standard from recruiting and training law enforcement (we don't have one) and they need to be taught how to descalate as the FIRST option. Other countries seem to be able to do it so we should be able to as well. But as long as the public buys into this "Cops are human too" bullshit then we continue to see them kill civilians with impunity and little repercussions except in the most BLATANT examples. George Floyd was not an anomaly. There are George Floyds happening everyday in this country and they don't all look like me.

[TUFKAK]

2 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I respect your experience and perspective but what does any of this have to do with Law enforcement? You're a nurse. You don't have the same role in society that Cops have. We LITERALLY give police officers the power of life and death and it is THEIR DUTY to wield that power responsibly. Unfortunately they don't and that's BEFORE you factor in the inherent racial biases built into Police Culture which dates back to the times of slavery (look it up; Police relationship to Slave patrol)

 

I've heard you say that you are your fiance is black. I don't know if you guys ever plan on having kids but if you do, do YOU trust today's police force in this country to treat them fairly? Would you be comfortable with any mixed race offspring of yours having ANY interaction with Cops in this country? Yes police are human, but we should expect MORE from them given all the evidence we've seen in the last ten years ALONE and I truly believe that they have lost the benefit of the doubt.

 

Again I get where you're coming from... your job sounds tough as hell... My Sister works with people with Special needs, mostly Autistic Teens and Adults and she has similar stories of being hit and having to restrain unruly clients. She has also developed ways to control her anger and her frustration because THAT'S WHAT THE JOB DEMANDS. She also doesn't carry a gun. I don't think Cops should be held to the same standard as her or YOU for that matter. My niece just graduated from Nursing school and just started working at a hospital in the NICU. Hopefully she stays there because your job sounds like hell. As far as Cops go, we need a national standard from recruiting and training law enforcement (we don't have one) and they need to be taught how to descalate as the FIRST option. Other countries seem to be able to do it so we should be able to as well. But as long as the public buys into this "Cops are human too" bullshit then we continue to see them kill civilians with impunity and little repercussions except in the most BLATANT examples. George Floyd was not an anomaly. There are George Floyds happening everyday in this country and they don't all look like me.

I don’t disagree with any of this, I’m just giving a second perspective here as how the real world doesn’t always correlate to expectations. I completely agree with the over policing of minorities which harkens back to our original sin of this nation having never seen black bodies as anything but economic inputs, we’ve dehumanized people of color from the foundation of our nation, this generational inertia has continued until this very day and is something I want destroyed too and was referenced in the other part of my post.

 

I don’t give them the benefit of the doubt, I just understand choices made in real time can go tragically wrong. I’ve my share of experiences from the marines as well. 
 

I don’t think policing is the issue, I think the nation is. Hence the there’s something fundamentally wrong with America.

 

To your question, fuck no I wouldn’t, especially since she’s darker skin so any kids would appear less white. But my vasectomy has fixed that issue.

[Jwheel86]

I don't think you'll see any fundamental changes in American law enforcement until the gun issue is dealt with. The internet has turned local police departments into a national social club where every crazy story is shared along with the body camera video. Just search YouTube and you'll see dozens and dozens of police shooting videos where the cops almost get killed. That constant influx of stories coming at them is going to make anyone paranoid beyond what any training can override. 

 

Here's 2 that made the rounds. 

 

Random 3rd party charges cop with an axe during traffic stop. 

 

Guy pulls gun 10 seconds after hugging cops. 

 

1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

The truly "amusing" thing is that a key element of the successful execution of those COIN techniques is to make every effort to win the "hearts and minds" of populations from whom the insurgents are likely to be drawn.  Perhaps unsurprisingly, this particular facet of COIN OPS genuinely appears to be lost on a not-insignificant number of American police departments.

 

It took a group of former Generals having an intervention with Bush for Big Army to embrace COIN. I don't know how that happens with over a thousand basically independent police departments. 

 

8 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

As far as Cops go, we need a national standard from recruiting

 

Build out the ideal officer candidate in your head, would that person want to be a cop? Pretty much everyone left of center has no interest, leaving only....

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

5 hours ago, Jwheel86 said:

don't think you'll see any fundamental changes in American law enforcement until the gun issue is dealt with.

Surely the same chuds who have near complete control and populate PDs are for gun control

 

surely 

[Bloodporne]

Granted I'm Americanized as all hell but I still retain a lot of European sensibilities I suppose and one of the big differences I can never wrap my head around is that such a vast majority of Americans can't seem to fathom the idea of a police force without immediate escalation and rage. Having watched many of these videos the common thread seems to be blatant to me and it's that cops here consistently and instantly escalate in these videos and contribute greatly to the outcome. Like many of you have said, they are trained professionals with weapons that can kill civilians on the spot, they absolutely NEED to be held to a higher standard than "just some dude" when it comes to restraint and behavior. People seem to underestimate how far something like just not instantly raising your voice, using the harshest language possible or screaming goes. They should absolutely be trained in controlling the situation mentally first in my opinion. 

 

Then again half the time I watch these videos, the Reno 911 cast appears to have been hired instead of professional law enforcement as it exists in seemingly most semi-civilized countries. And I don't mean to imply European police are angelic figures but it's a stark difference in terms of initial approach. I visit family back home frequently and there is no indication any of those countries view their police forces as this looming, Gestapo-like presence to be feared but rather as the public servants they ought to be. This shit is just sad and tragic over and over. A situation like this could've seemingly been avoided had it not escalated instantly and I don't even think that's Monday Morning Quarterback shit to say. 

 

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

9 hours ago, Jwheel86 said:

I don't think you'll see any fundamental changes in American law enforcement until the gun issue is dealt with. The internet has turned local police departments into a national social club where every crazy story is shared along with the body camera video. Just search YouTube and you'll see dozens and dozens of police shooting videos where the cops almost get killed. That constant influx of stories coming at them is going to make anyone paranoid beyond what any training can override. 

 

Here's 2 that made the rounds. 

 

Random 3rd party charges cop with an axe during traffic stop. 

 

Guy pulls gun 10 seconds after hugging cops. 

 

 

It took a group of former Generals having an intervention with Bush for Big Army to embrace COIN. I don't know how that happens with over a thousand basically independent police departments. 

 

 

Build out the ideal officer candidate in your head, would that person want to be a cop? Pretty much everyone left of center has no interest, leaving only....

You're right.  There is lots of evidence that death rates from being shot by a police officer are highly correlated (on a geographic basis) from how likely police officers are to encounter people with guns (i.e. the gun ownership rate).  This seems to be consistent on studies between countries, and on smaller scales (i.e. areas within a country). 

[Nokra]

Completely agree re: America's gun problem being a major hinderance to law enforcement reform. As just one example: Since they're carrying guns, they have to assume that any attack on them is potentially an attempt to get their gun and kill them (or others), so of course they're going to respond with deadly force a disproportionate amount of the time. 

 

The Second Amendment is a plague on this country. 

[Jason]

Not all cops but none of the other cops intervened.

 

[TUFKAK]

5 hours ago, Nokra said:

Completely agree re: America's gun problem being a major hinderance to law enforcement reform. As just one example: Since they're carrying guns, they have to assume that any attack on them is potentially an attempt to get their gun and kill them (or others), so of course they're going to respond with deadly force a disproportionate amount of the time. 

 

The Second Amendment is a plague on this country. 

Exactly.

 

Hence why I said still human, when every busted tail light can lead to a firefight is it any wonder they’re on edge? Serve the public sure but ain’t nobody trying to die/be injured at work.
 

We’ve too many guns, they’re too easy to get and a major part of our culture basically worships the damn things. Hence there’s something fundamentally wrong with our nation.