PC Nvidia - Geforce Beyond (EVGA) Event

[Massdriver]

 

Why Nvidia's RTX 4080, 4090 Cost so Damn Much | Tom's Hardware

WWW.TOMSHARDWARE.COM

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And how AMD's RDNA3 chiplets could seriously undercut Nvidia

 

 

I'll add to the negative press. :P

[crispy4000]

45 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

 

Why Nvidia's RTX 4080, 4090 Cost so Damn Much | Tom's Hardware

WWW.TOMSHARDWARE.COM

---

And how AMD's RDNA3 chiplets could seriously undercut Nvidia

 

 

I'll add to the negative press. :P

 

It's good that they're getting called on this so thoroughly.  Still...

 

Quote

AMD might even be able to compete with AD104 on pricing while delivering significantly higher performance, at least in games that don't leverage DLSS 3 and/or extreme ray tracing effects. Advantage: AMD.

 

This is an ass backward take.  Simply put, games that don't need DLSS 3 and 'extreme ray tracing effects' aren't going to need a 40xx series or RDNA3 card to begin with.  What's the point in even buying one of these newfangled GPUs if you're so focused on the past?  Might as well say: 'Advantage: Older cheaper GPUs.'

 

We haven't heard much about what DLSS 3 will take to implement, but I'd be surprised if the uptick was as slow as DLSS 1.0 was initially, as the article suggests:
 

Quote

In a lot of ways, the RTX 40-series launch so far feels very reminiscent of the RTX 20-series launch. Nvidia is once again hyping up ray tracing and DLSS, only we're now in round three of that story. The RT hardware is far more capable, DLSS 3 is supposed to be a lot better as well, but will all the big games support both technologies to sufficient levels? Undoubtedly the answer is no; some will, some won't.

The year is 2022, not 2018.  If you put yourself in a 2018 mindset, of course you're going to be a naysayer.  But future adoption of upscaling/RT, which are now proven commodities?  You shouldn't side with the industry standing still.  That's dumb.

[stepee]

3 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

Games that don't need DLSS 3 and 'extreme ray tracing effects' aren't going to need a 40xx series or RDNA3 card to begin with.  What's the point in even buying one if you're so focused on the past?

 

 

THANK you, this is what I’m saying, people always seem to miss this part. The games that need dlss, usually have it. And anything without RT is usually 120fps anyway.

[Mr.Vic20]

4 hours ago, stepee said:

eh, the 4080 12gb is lame with its branding but I don’t take much issue with the 4080 16gb if it hits the stated performance gains. I am thinking maybe I go 4090 later this year instead though. It’s just I have to replace my psu then since I have 800w ugh.

[Ghost_MH]

13 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

The year is 2022, not 2018.  If you put yourself in a 2018 mindset, of course you're going to be a naysayer.  But future adoption of upscaling/RT, which are now proven commodities?  You shouldn't side with the industry standing still.  That's dumb.

 

Eh, I can see the argument here. When the 20xx cards came out it was a feature that couldn't be used by any gamer that didn't have a 20xx card. It is 2022, so it's dumb not to bake in support DLSS and FSR, but we will be in a situation where DLSS 3 can only be used by gamers with a 40xx card. I'm sure adoption will catch up, but I don't exactly think it's dumb to suggest forcing a new standard with a lineup of cards that starts at $900 is a tough ask. The 2070 launched at $500. Inflation has been bad, but not that bad.

[stepee]

18 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

 

i already warned my dad he MIGHT be replacing my psu 

[Mr.Vic20]

14 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

i already warned my dad he MIGHT be replacing my psu 

What if I told you I just happen to have a 1200 watt PSU just lying around. Brand new to boot. Shall I ship it sir? This one to be specific:

 

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Power-Supply-Units/hxi-series-2017-config/p/CP-9020140-NA

[stepee]

15 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

What if I told you I just happen to have a 1200 watt PSU just lying around. Brand new to boot. Shall I ship it sir? This one to be specific:

 

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Power-Supply-Units/hxi-series-2017-config/p/CP-9020140-NA

 

Damn thank you sir! Even now I think I’m being throttled with my 3080 oc and firmware unlock to 400w! Let me just check that it fits my case. Why do you have that just sitting around :P

[Mr.Vic20]

Just now, stepee said:

 

Damn thank you sir! Even now I think I’m being throttled with my 3080 oc and firmware unlock to 400w! Let me just check that it fits my case. Why do you have that just sitting around :P

This is not a story without embarrasement, but basically, don't shop drunk!  And if you do, get on your refund ASAP!  STOP ASKING QUESTIONS STEPEE! GAWD! 

[Brick]

You guys are nuts. You don't need a new card every two years!  Skip these, and maybe demand will go down enough that Nvidia will lower the costs either of these cards, or the 50xx series. 

[Mr.Vic20]

Just now, Brick said:

You guys are nuts. You don't need a new card every two years!  Skip these, and maybe demand will go down enough that Nvidia will lower the costs either of these cards, or the 50xx series. 

You're correct of course, I NEED a new card EVERY year! 

[Brick]

Just now, Mr.Vic20 said:

You're correct of course, I NEED a new card EVERY year! 

 

Your wallet must hate you. 

[stepee]

2 hours ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

What if I told you I just happen to have a 1200 watt PSU just lying around. Brand new to boot. Shall I ship it sir? This one to be specific:

 

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Power-Supply-Units/hxi-series-2017-config/p/CP-9020140-NA

 

I can’t find dimensions there, does it list on the box? 

 

Im trying to fit in:

 

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/corsair-4000d-airflow-midtower-case/6424213.p?skuId=6424213

 

Im sure it will fit but I’d hate for you to ship it and it doesn’t work!

[Mr.Vic20]

3 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

I can’t find dimensions there, does it list on the box? 

 

Im trying to fit in:

 

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/corsair-4000d-airflow-midtower-case/6424213.p?skuId=6424213

 

Im sure it will fit but I’d hate for you to ship it and it doesn’t work!

Scroll down for specs

 

https://www.multitronic.fi/en/products/1589547

[stepee]

6 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

Scroll down for specs

 

https://www.multitronic.fi/en/products/1589547

 

Only shows length but that fits and I found a best buy answer that someone said the same psu fit my case so I think we are good :P

[crispy4000]

4 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Eh, I can see the argument here. When the 20xx cards came out it was a feature that couldn't be used by any gamer that didn't have a 20xx card. It is 2022, so it's dumb not to bake in support DLSS and FSR, but we will be in a situation where DLSS 3 can only be used by gamers with a 40xx card. I'm sure adoption will catch up, but I don't exactly think it's dumb to suggest forcing a new standard with a lineup of cards that starts at $900 is a tough ask. The 2070 launched at $500. Inflation has been bad, but not that bad.

Tough ask on the pricing, sure.  But I would be shocked if there were substantial barriers to implementing DLSS 3.0 over 2.  There’s a push from Nvidia themselves to make FSR/DLSS/XESS easy to implement together.  3.0 will inevitably be part of that framework.

 

They also no longer need to convince devs that reconstruction is something PC gamers want.  The stigma is gone.

 

[Spork3245]

 

@stepee @Mr.Vic20

Looks like these ATX 3.0 to 2.0 adapters are kinda junk. 2.5 hours at full draw was supposedly causing melting, the pins for the 3.0 adapter also seem to be super sensitive.

[cusideabelincoln]

1 hour ago, Spork3245 said:

 

@stepee @Mr.Vic20

Looks like these ATX 3.0 to 2.0 adapters are kinda junk. 2.5 hours at full draw was supposedly causing melting, the pins for the 3.0 adapter also seem to be super sensitive.

 

Seems like the melting isn't isolated to the adapter; it can happen with an official 3.0 PSU and cable. The TLDW: Don't bend the cables really hard and carefully plug in the connector to make sure to get a perfect connection with the pins.

[Spork3245]

1 hour ago, cusideabelincoln said:

 

Seems like the melting isn't isolated to the adapter; it can happen with an official 3.0 PSU and cable. The TLDW: Don't bend the cables really hard and carefully plug in the connector to make sure to get a perfect connection with the pins.

The connection itself seems poorly thought out. They should’ve made it a bit larger so it was more stable.

[HGLatinBoy]

On 9/23/2022 at 4:59 PM, Mr.Vic20 said:

You're correct of course, I NEED a new card EVERY year! 

you must be happy SLI is finally dead 

[stepee]

So since Vic essentially forced me by gunpoint to go for the 4090 now, what the hell kind of insane jump is that from a 3080 (10gb), 2.5-5x?

 

I assume this was intentional that you get up to $1200 for the “real” 4080 and then it’s “only” $400 more to get the top dog, so might as well right!

[stepee]

@best3444 I’m gonna play rdr2 at 8k/120fps just for you

[Spork3245]

1 hour ago, stepee said:

4090 now, what the hell kind of insane jump is that from a 3080 (10gb), 2.5-5x?

There’s about a 10-15% difference in framerate, pending the game, between the 3080 vs 3090 Ti

[stepee]

37 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

There’s about a 10-15% difference in framerate, pending the game, between the 3080 vs 3090 Ti

 

I feel like if they had the prices the same but just cut down the 4090 and made it only like 10-15% better than the 4080 16gb and named the 12gb one 4070 to be transparent, the press here would be better.

 

Edit: Also I think what nvidia is doing here, is saying the 80 series is no longer the top of the line flagship, the titan prosumer level is no more, a 80 to them is considered what a 70 used to be and that all scales down. The 4090 is basically the new 2080ti

 

[Mr.Vic20]

A 3090 is about 20% faster than a 3080.  a 3090ti is between 5-10% faster than a 3090. the 4xxx series will be, when DLSS3 is involved, typically 2x faster than a 3xxx card, when not dealing with RT or DLSS3, the benefits are less understood as to date, Nvidia has cherry picked what's been shown and most folks who have the cards haven't really shown much yet. 

[stepee]

Either way it’s the biggest leap in a long time if it all checks out. And it’s not even really needed yet! It’s going to be interesting to have a card out that’s really just crushing the current games like back in the 1080p era before the 4k transition again.

 

Edit; @Mr.Vic20Im calling it now, Mirage will be the one. It will be the first AC to run at 4k 60fps at launch.

[Mr.Vic20]

10 minutes ago, stepee said:

Either way it’s the biggest leap in a long time if it all checks out. And it’s not even really needed yet! It’s going to be interesting to have a card out that’s really just crushing the current games like back in the 1080p era before the 4k transition again.

Agreed! I would think that a raw hardware comparision of a 3090 to 4090 will show a 35%-40% performance boost (basing this off architecture change and transistor count)  when not including RT and/or DLSS3. 35-40% is nothing to sniff at, though I'd prefer a solid 50% jump going from generation to generation. With RT and DLSS3 in the picture though, this card will be a true leap forward! 

[Mr.Vic20]

3 minutes ago, stepee said:

Either way it’s the biggest leap in a long time if it all checks out. And it’s not even really needed yet! It’s going to be interesting to have a card out that’s really just crushing the current games like back in the 1080p era before the 4k transition again.

 

Edit; @Mr.Vic20Im calling it now, Mirage will be the one. It will be the first AC to run at 4k 60fps at launch.

We can always dream my man! 

[stepee]

10 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

Agreed! I would think that a raw hardware comparision of a 3090 to 4090 will show a 35%-40% performance boost (basing this off architecture change ans transistor count)  when not including RT and/or DLSS3. 35-40% is nothing to sniff at, though I'd prefer a solid 50% jump going from generation to generation. With RT and DLSS3 in the picture though, this card will be a true leap forward! 

 

I think that sounds right and it makes sense based on that gain from the 3090ti it really is sorta the new 80, where I’ll be getting a good 50% standard.

[stepee]

Also will nvidia end up adding dlss3 to 20/30 series once modders figure it out?

[Mr.Vic20]

Just now, stepee said:

Also will nvidia end up adding dlss3 to 20/30 series once modders figure it out?

And Nvidia engineer has suggested that it completely technically possible but that the 4xxx tensor cores, with its advance flow processors, will be the only architecture that can really leverage DLSS3 as it was built. Could this be BS? With Nvidia, some precent always is, but I'm guessing that core for core, the 4xxx series wil definitly use DLSS3 much better and if its possible to do the same on the 3xxx and 2xxx series cards, is Nvidia really incentivised to do so? 

[cusideabelincoln]

1 hour ago, stepee said:

Either way it’s the biggest leap in a long time if it all checks out. And it’s not even really needed yet! It’s going to be interesting to have a card out that’s really just crushing the current games like back in the 1080p era before the 4k transition again.

 

Edit; @Mr.Vic20Im calling it now, Mirage will be the one. It will be the first AC to run at 4k 60fps at launch.

 

The 4090 will be one of the bigger generational leaps we've seen in a while with or without DLSS 3.0.

 

The 4080 will be very meh or average generational leap over the 3080 without DLSS 3.

 

And yep, the 4080 16GB pricing makes no sense. Seems to be well worth it to upgrade to the 4090, even with the power requirements.

[stepee]

2 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

 

The 4090 will be one of the bigger generational leaps we've seen in a while with or without DLSS 3.0.

 

The 4080 will be very meh or average generational leap over the 3080 without DLSS 3.

 

And yep, the 4080 16GB pricing makes no sense. Seems to be well worth it to upgrade to the 4090, even with the power requirements.

 

The power requirements aren’t really even a big deal, you just have @Mr.Vic20 send you a 1200 watt corsair brand new for no charge. EZPZ

[Spork3245]

2 hours ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

A 3090 is about 20% faster than a 3080.  a 3090ti is between 5-10% faster than a 3090. the 4xxx series will be, when DLSS3 is involved, typically 2x faster than a 3xxx card, when not dealing with RT or DLSS3, the benefits are less understood as to date, Nvidia has cherry picked what's been shown and most folks who have the cards haven't really shown much yet. 

There’s only a handful of games where this is achieved at 4k+. It’s typically closer to around 10%.

 

 

39 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

The 4080 will be very meh or average generational leap over the 3080 without DLSS 3.

 

The 4080 16gb is being stated as the same “gain” as the 4090, but over the 3080 Ti rather than the 3090 Ti, which are barely apart performance-wise (it’s less than the 3080 vs 3090… IIRC, it’s around 7-8%).

[Mr.Vic20]

Hmmm, I've seen a variety of bench marks that differ from these, but I also don't own a 3080 so what do I know?