General Gaming Late to the Party: Dark Souls vs DS2 vs DS3

[Dexterryu]

Hi guys. I'm sure this question has been beaten to death but I'm not asking which is better. Elden Ring was my first From Software Game and I loved it. So much so that I decided to play the rest while since there's a lull in new AAA games coming out.

So I played Demons Souls Remake, then BloodBorne. Loved them. I then bought the DS Trilogy. Just finished Dark Souls Remastered and loved it.

 

Then I loaded up Dark Souls 2. At first, I kinda liked that it seemed a little more fluid but the more I play it the more things just feel off and less "fair". Like the game is trying too hard to be hard. At any rate, I feel like I'm making myself try to like the game. The world looks cool and the story/lore intriguing but the gameplay just isn't clicking. Again... something just feels a little off. It's little things like enemies seeming like they're on ice when you strafe them, getting hit by things when I've clearly moved aside. I want to like it, I want to explore the world but man, this one just seems to want to punish that with tons of things that you can't fight back agains like an archer that you can't reach shooting you from behind. I know I probably just need to 'git gud'-er or something.

 

So my question is, does this problem continue in DS3? I'm debating on skipping DS2 and going right to DS3 if it's back to normal. Also, before someone suggests it, I have sekiro too. Was saving it for last since I heard it was the most challenging.

[Mr.Vic20]

No! Love it or hate it, DS2 is more divergent than any other souls game. I personally do not like DS2, it is the ONLY Soulsborne game I have not completed. 

 

Edit: Sekiro is not a souls game. Its more akin to a Ninja Gaiden then Souls. ITs not my cup of tea, but many love it. 

[Keyser_Soze]

Maybe DS2 is a good come back to it game. I played DS 1 and 3 (skipped 2) and then came back to it before Elden Ring came out and enjoyed DS2 quite a bit.

[SaysWho?]

I played DS1 for the first time this year and loved it. Having played DeS for the first time with the remake, this just leaves DS3, Sekiro, and eventually finishing Elden Ring for me (I started a while ago, played a bit, and haven't been back just because I haven't, not because I was having a bad time).

 

Feel good, yo!

[Bloodporne]

I still think Dark Souls is the best of them all, it has something really special for me. I don't enjoy either sequel. DS2 was a massive letdown and I just have zero interest in ever forcing myself to like that one just to be objective and DS3 feels like semi-tired greatest hits collection to me. 

 

Sekiro is very different to all of them, totally different combat. I have a weird love/hate relationship with that game but most people love it. To me, it's incredibly difficult, or rather has vicious difficulty spikes the size of a building. The world, atmosphere and regular levels are really great though, it's just a lot of the bosses and the need for perfection that I dislike.  

 

 

[Paperclyp]

I think it’s appropriate to not consider Sekiro a souls game, but I actually feel like it is.

 

Sekiro to me was like bloodborne on steroids and was training wheels for me to finally learn how to parry in the series as a whole. I didn’t parry at all in demons through dark souls 3. Certainly had to learn how to do it in bloodborne, but it wasn’t as crucial to completing the game as it is in Sekiro, where it is literally required. 
 

In some ways, Sekiro is my favorite From game in that the leap you make in actual skill is so blatantly obvious by the time you defeat the final boss. I’m not sure a game ever made me as satisfied and felt as good to play when you’re in a groove than Sekiro. Goddamned masterpiece. 

 

[Dexterryu]

Thanks for the replies guys. At the moment, I'm debating on whether to swap to DS3 and then come back to DS2 since the controls/timing are a bit different/off or just power through DS2.

[Xbob42]

I've never found anything particularly wrong with DS2 and find the reactions to it to be entirely overblown, and I suspect at least in part because of the knowledge that Miyazaki was not working on it -- I do wonder if the reaction would be different if that was not known.

Now the game is definitely divergent, and it's a little jankier in some parts, but people talk about it like it's fuckin' Lords of the Fallen or something. I guess to me, Souls games are often janky and strangely designed in many aspects, so one pushing that out a little farther wasn't especially noticeable?

[skillzdadirecta]

8 hours ago, Paperclyp said:

I think it’s appropriate to not consider Sekiro a souls game, but I actually feel like it is.

 

Sekiro to me was like bloodborne on steroids and was training wheels for me to finally learn how to parry in the series as a whole. I didn’t parry at all in demons through dark souls 3. Certainly had to learn how to do it in bloodborne, but it wasn’t as crucial to completing the game as it is in Sekiro, where it is literally required. 
 

In some ways, Sekiro is my favorite From game in that the leap you make in actual skill is so blatantly obvious by the time you defeat the final boss. I’m not sure a game ever made me as satisfied and felt as good to play when you’re in a groove than Sekiro. Goddamned masterpiece. 

 

Agreed about Sekiro... That game and Bloodborne to a lesser extent, changed the way I play these games entirely now. I don't bother trying to block at all. I just dodge and counter. Sekiro was the third From Souls game I ever beat after Demon Souls and Dark Souls and I played Dark Souls 2 after it. Dark Souls 2 is definitely different than Dark Souls, but not dramatically so. I don't think it has any bosses that are TOO tough compared to the other games. Sekiro is a game that actually teaches you to get better and once you do and it "clicks" it just feels amazing. Beating the last boss in Sekiro during the early days of the pandemic was one of my favorite gaming moments of all time.

[Bacon]

Dark Souls 2 is fucking shit.

It is worth playing just to hate it. 

Fuck the Foreskin Editions as well.

[Dexterryu]

12 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Agreed about Sekiro... That game and Bloodborne to a lesser extent, changed the way I play these games entirely now. I don't bother trying to block at all. I just dodge and counter. Sekiro was the third From Souls game I ever beat after Demon Souls and Dark Souls and I played Dark Souls 2 after it. Dark Souls 2 is definitely different than Dark Souls, but not dramatically so. I don't think it has any bosses that are TOO tough compared to the other games. Sekiro is a game that actually teaches you to get better and once you do and it "clicks" it just feels amazing. Beating the last boss in Sekiro during the early days of the pandemic was one of my favorite gaming moments of all time.

 

I really loved Bloodborne. I played around with Sekiro a bit in may and got maybe 1/4 through before I left for vacation and when I came back I was basically stonewalled by the boss at the end of Ashina castle (the rematch with the guy that cuts off your arm in the beginning). I definitely want to get back to it but I'd basically be starting over to relearn the controls.

 

 

14 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

I've never found anything particularly wrong with DS2 and find the reactions to it to be entirely overblown, and I suspect at least in part because of the knowledge that Miyazaki was not working on it -- I do wonder if the reaction would be different if that was not known.

Now the game is definitely divergent, and it's a little jankier in some parts, but people talk about it like it's fuckin' Lords of the Fallen or something. I guess to me, Souls games are often janky and strangely designed in many aspects, so one pushing that out a little farther wasn't especially noticeable?

 

So I didn't know anything about Miyazaki. I could feel something off about DS2 almost right after the prologue. The game has the atmosphere but the controls and mobs are just a little off. Almost feels a like a cross between DS and one of the many clones.

 

At any rate, I loaded up DS3 and it was like ordering your favorite comfort food as the controls, mobs, and such felt like DS/DeS/Bloodborne/Elden Ring. I will go back to DS2 after I finish these because the world has definitely intrigued me but it is just different enough to feel like a different game.

[skillzdadirecta]

Quote

I really loved Bloodborne. I played around with Sekiro a bit in may and got maybe 1/4 through before I left for vacation and when I came back I was basically stonewalled by the boss at the end of Ashina castle (the rematch with the guy that cuts off your arm in the beginning). I definitely want to get back to it but I'd basically be starting over to relearn the controls.

 

This is where a lot of people hit the wall. It's by design. Once you beat him, you've pretty much got the hang of the mechanics at that point. Keep playing and don't get discouraged.  You'll be surprised how good the game feels once the mechanics click for you  

[Greatoneshere]

All I can say is I've played every game from Demon's Souls to Elden Ring with my two younger brothers (except Sekiro which is single player only) and the two games out of all of the Soulsborne games we found boring/average were Dark Souls II and Dark Souls III. They simply felt very derivative of Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. Sure, there are challenges and some interesting levels and enemies, but I played Demon's Souls first and then Dark Souls and both games blew me away. Then we played DS II and DS III (and their expansions) and we were mostly bored. We loved Bloodborne and I love Sekiro. Still working on Elden Ring but it's great. I could get into the minutia as to why there is this distinction (Hidetaka Miyazaki was heavily involved with every game except DS II and DS III is just one reason) but all three of us felt this way. I'd still play them but they simply don't carry as effectively the tone, atmosphere, cryptic dialogue, weird characters, and more of the rest of the Soulsborne games. Are they bad games? No. Are they derivative of better Soulsborne games by From Software? Yes, and you feel it. Think of it like Pixar. Sometimes you get Pixar home run films like Toy Story 3 or Up or Inside Out, and then you sometimes get meh Pixar films like Brave or Onward. DS II and DS III are like that - still made by From Software, so still good enough, but a clear step below the greats.

 

 

 

[Keyser_Soze]

Time has redeemed Dark Souls 2 | PC Gamer

WWW.PCGAMER.COM

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Maligned by fans initially, FromSoft's sequel has become one of the main blueprints for the soulslike genre.

 

[Paperclyp]

1 hour ago, Keyser_Soze said:

Time has redeemed Dark Souls 2 | PC Gamer

WWW.PCGAMER.COM

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Maligned by fans initially, FromSoft's sequel has become one of the main blueprints for the soulslike genre.

 

I always loved it! I was cool before it was cool!

[Bjomesphat]

1 hour ago, Keyser_Soze said:

Time has redeemed Dark Souls 2 | PC Gamer

WWW.PCGAMER.COM

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Maligned by fans initially, FromSoft's sequel has become one of the main blueprints for the soulslike genre.

 

 

Nah, there's not some DS2 resurgence happening. There's a core group that love it, but most still prefer every other entry.

 

And the entire premise of the article is really a stretch and really only mentions level design and builds. It's not some radical innovation to have more complex builds. That would happen with our without DS2, depending on if the game called for it or not. I mean, look at Sekiro. Miyazaki was going further and further away from character loadouts before Elden Ring. And as for level design, just because your game doesn't have a fully interconnected world like Dark Souls, doesn't mean you're taking inspiration from DS2. People don't criticize DS2 solely because the levels go from A > B > C, it's because each individual area is designed like shit.

 

Look, there's no DS2 redemption coming. The game is fundamentally flawed, and no amount of time is going to fix that. The enemies suck, enemy placement sucks, the AI sucks, the level design sucks, the feel sucks, hit detection sucks, the combat timing sucks, half of the art direction sucks, bosses suck, but I will say Majula fucks.

[Bacon]

I love @Bjomesphat

[Keyser_Soze]

[Bacon]

 

[XxEvil AshxX]

I own all of these games. I suck at all of them. Although Elden Ring was able to hold my attention long enough for me to get a decent handle on combat, and I went back to Dark Souls Remastered and was able to get quite a bit farther than I ever had. I still hit a wall though with the two gargoyle bosses on a roof and I put it down and never went back.

 

I own DSII and DSIII and have never even booted them up for longer than a few minutes. I also have Bloodborne and the Demon's Souls remake on PS5. I will say Demon's Souls seems to be the most forgiving, but I do think there's a "magic formula" for that game, like a certain order to go in and what items to get first. I've been doing alright in that game but still feel like I haven't really accomplished anything. 

[Paperclyp]

2 hours ago, Bjomesphat said:

 

Nah, there's not some DS2 resurgence happening. There's a core group that love it, but most still prefer every other entry.

 

And the entire premise of the article is really a stretch and really only mentions level design and builds. It's not some radical innovation to have more complex builds. That would happen with our without DS2, depending on if the game called for it or not. I mean, look at Sekiro. Miyazaki was going further and further away from character loadouts before Elden Ring. And as for level design, just because your game doesn't have a fully interconnected world like Dark Souls, doesn't mean you're taking inspiration from DS2. People don't criticize DS2 solely because the levels go from A > B > C, it's because each individual area is designed like shit.

 

Look, there's no DS2 redemption coming. The game is fundamentally flawed, and no amount of time is going to fix that. The enemies suck, enemy placement sucks, the AI sucks, the level design sucks, the feel sucks, hit detection sucks, the combat timing sucks, half of the art direction sucks, bosses suck, but I will say Majula fucks.

I haven’t played it in a long time to have any sort of critical lens to view it under. But I can say it was the first game of the series that clicked with me despite multiple attempts at Demons and Dark Souls 1 before I got to 2 and just fell in love with it. I think saying all that stuff sucks is probably a bit hyperbolic! I think it rocks!