I would like to congratulate America on it's newest welfare state.

[stepee]

It’s not that he’s pro Russia, it’s just he’s against the hierarchy as supported in the current per capita allotment allowed via means testing and other such aberrations.

[unogueen]

Once again, there was no legal binding reason to interfere. But america cola needs to beat up somebody for politics. The domestic unrest is far for my care. Global warming is NOW and if the usa is a wash what do you even do.

[CitizenVectron]

8 minutes ago, unogueen said:

Once again, there was no legal binding reason to interfere. But america cola needs to beat up somebody for politics. The domestic unrest is far for my care. Global warming is NOW and if the usa is a wash what do you even do.

 

"Domestic unrest" - so you believe that war between Ukraine and Russia is a domestic issue, and that Ukraine is inherently a part of Russia? Or am I interpreting that incorrectly? You...seem kind of dumb, though maybe it's the translation. Ignorant, at the least.

[unogueen]

The domestic problem is you, america. how many other countries do you think insist on so many enemies?

[CitizenVectron]

2 hours ago, unogueen said:

The domestic problem is you, america. how many other countries do you think insist on so many enemies?

 

I do not live in America. But thanks for continuing to evade any actual conversation or answers. 

[Uaarkson]

2 hours ago, unogueen said:

The domestic problem is you, america. how many other countries do you think insist on so many enemies?

Can’t argue with that!

[Dodger]

I think I need to start using drugs because I’m definitely missing out.

[unogueen]

11 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

I do not live in America. But thanks for continuing to evade any actual conversation or answers. 

You are all too happy to avoid my question as to why this ukraine business is such a cause celebre worth billions in aid and increased militarization all around, as opposed to just about every other shitshow on this earth.

[CitizenVectron]

4 minutes ago, unogueen said:

You are all too happy to avoid my question as to why this ukraine business is such a cause celebre worth billions in aid and increased militarization all around, as opposed to just about every other shitshow on this earth.

 

Because countries have the right to self-determination, and Russia is inflicting and will continue to inflict rape, torture, and genocide on the Ukrainian people. Other countries also deserve this protection, and the fact that they don't get it is a very bad thing. That doesn't mean Ukraine doesn't deserve it. But as you appear to somehow not be able to actually condemn the Russian invasion (why? Do you support Russia?), from this point on I am putting you on ignore as you are a piece of shit, I guess.

[unogueen]

28 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Because countries have the right to self-determination, and Russia is inflicting and will continue to inflict rape, torture, and genocide on the Ukrainian people. Other countries also deserve this protection, and the fact that they don't get it is a very bad thing. That doesn't mean Ukraine doesn't deserve it. But as you appear to somehow not be able to actually condemn the Russian invasion (why? Do you support Russia?), from this point on I am putting you on ignore as you are a piece of shit, I guess.

It's an invasion, it's bad, why prattle over the obvious? My take is that america, and the collective west, has a mountain of domestic and  international crimes to account for, can very much address many of them in an instant, but chose to take action for something out of jurisdiction instead. What the fuck do you think that looks like to the global south and those wronged domestically?

[BloodyHell]

35 minutes ago, unogueen said:

You are all too happy to avoid my question as to why this ukraine business is such a cause celebre worth billions in aid and increased militarization all around, as opposed to just about every other shitshow on this earth.

You don't have a question. You have babbling nonsense, pretending to answer and ask questions refusing to actually just make your point/actuallyaskingquestions. You type a lot while saying nothing.

 

Are you a Russian upset we won't allow world powers to destroy other countries? Because it’s disgusting to pretend America should do nothing for Ukraine. You don't like war, so we should let Russia steamroll the east to remain pacifist? It's complete nonsense, like the people who argued against fighting the Nazi Army.

 

Theres no problem with your writing, it's your insistence that Ukraine should be left to fend for themselves that is ridiculous.

[BloodyHell]

2 minutes ago, unogueen said:

It's an invasion, it's bad, why prattle over the obvious? My take is that america, and the collective west, has a mountain of domestic and  international crimes to account for, can very much address many of them in an instant, but chose to take action for something out of jurisdiction instead. What the fuck do you think that looks like to the global south and those wronged domestically?

Oh, so you decide jurisdiction?

A country under invasion asked for help and deserves it, period. No other answer is necessary. 

[Bloodporne]

Unogueen typing that fucking op:

 

 

[unogueen]

International matters are legal matters. Matters of record. There was no legal  requirement to come to the aid of ukraine. Not like anyone gave a fuck when georgian territory was seded.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

6 minutes ago, unogueen said:

International matters are legal matters. Matters of record. There was no legal  requirement to come to the aid of ukraine. Not like anyone gave a fuck when georgian territory was seded.

Georgia isn’t in Europe and there’s been a lot of things that have “happened” since the 2014 Russian invasion of Eastern Ukraine

[unogueen]

5 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Georgia isn’t in Europe and there’s been a lot of things that have “happened” since the 2014 Russian invasion of Eastern Ukraine

vis-a-vis invasion no? Much has happened, all across the world, since change is the only constant. But the rest of us are not supposed leaders of the free world. So who's hands are dirty here?

This supposed defence of ukraine  has raised the calamty status of the world, not provided relief.

[Keyser_Soze]

54 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

from this point on I am putting you on ignore as you are a piece of shit, I guess.

 

They cannot be bothered to make a response when called out, as evidence here even in a non political topic. 🤷‍♀️

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

19 minutes ago, unogueen said:

vis-a-vis invasion no? Much has happened, all across the world, since change is the only constant. But the rest of us are not supposed leaders of the free world. So who's hands are dirty here?

What in the actual fuck are you talking about?

 

Part of the us response here is because of Russian interference in our elections in 2016. And also part in response to our allies many of whom are former client states of Russia and very nervous about the unprovoked attack to seemingly eliminate the Ukrainian people, state, and language based on russias own pronouncements. to say nothing of sending the message of supporting the sovereignty of important would be client or vassal states like Taiwan.
 

And all of this takes a back seat to the fact that this support has two long term goals for the Us: support for an independent democratic state in Europe (who we have agreed to help at their request for years) and to punish Russia without directly confronting Russia

[unogueen]

3 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

What in the actual fuck are you talking about?

 

Part of the us response here is because of Russian interference in our elections in 2016. And also part in response to our allies many of whom are former client states of Russia and very nervous about the unprovoked attack to seemingly eliminate the Ukrainian people, state, and language based on russias own pronouncements. to say nothing of sending the message of supporting the sovereignty of important would be client or vassal states like Taiwan.
 

And all of this takes a back seat to the fact that this support has two long term goals for the Us: support for an independent democratic state in Europe (who we have agreed to help at their request for years) and to punish Russia without directly confronting Russia

Okay, let's retire this russia gave us trump rhetoric. The seeds of the alt-right were already well present in academia, and was gladly carried by the  press. As for vassal states, some carry far more water than others it seems, and  let's not beat in the bush about it.  Wealth = protection. That's law of the land. And the expansion of the western states carries connotation far further than 'democracy'. If you wonder why china is so irritated, maybe it's all that propositioned firepower pointed it's way.

[CayceG]

2 minutes ago, unogueen said:

Okay, let's retire this russia gave us trump rhetoric. The seeds of the alt-right were already well present in academia, and was gladly carried by the  press. As for vassal states, some carry far more water than others it seems, and  let's not beat in the bush about it.  Wealth = protection. That's law of the land. And the expansion of the western states carries connotation far further than 'democracy'. If you wonder why china is so irritated, maybe it's all that propositioned firepower pointed it's way.

 

bmbmbm isn't saying Trump gave us Russia. He's saying the narrative of Russia's involvement with Trump and their interference in the election is part of the justification. Their interference had very little impact. Trump's connection to Russia doesn't really seem that significant with regards to political ties. But neither of those matter to the actions Russia took and the response the US government is taking to those actions. 

 

 

I haven't really read much of this thread yet, so I don't necessarily want to jump in on the rest of it, but I've got a sneaking suspicion that you may be missing a few nuances here. 

[Keyser_Soze]

You guys are strange. You've been and read unoqueen topics before and you still try to engage like a normal person.

[unogueen]

12 minutes ago, CayceG said:

 

bmbmbm isn't saying Trump gave us Russia. He's saying the narrative of Russia's involvement with Trump and their interference in the election is part of the justification. Their interference had very little impact. Trump's connection to Russia doesn't really seem that significant with regards to political ties. But neither of those matter to the actions Russia took and the response the US government is taking to those actions. 

 

 

I haven't really read much of this thread yet, so I don't necessarily want to jump in on the rest of it, but I've got a sneaking suspicion that you may be missing a few nuances here. 

My point is that there is no unilateral good. And the increased militarization of europe carries painful memories for many, and is a dangerous precedent yet again. Along with the wild amount of logistical damage caused by the prolonged fighting across the world that will hopefully make it to light. The west carries too much inertia to be acting so recklessly.

[CayceG]

Just now, unogueen said:

My point is that there is no unilateral good. And the increased militarization of europe carries painfum memories for many, and is a dangerous precedent yet again. Along with the wild amount of logistical damage caused by the prolonged fighting across the world that will hopefully make it to light.

 

No one is arguing that there are unilateral or holistic 'good' actions. 

 

Despite that, militarization of Europe sure does carry painful memories. But painful memories are being created now in Ukraine with a Russian assault on that country. I'm sorry that German peoples' feefees are being hurt because they have to actually think about reactivating tank units. But that really doesn't matter when it comes to actual combat happening 1,500 km away. 

 

And logistical damage just comes with war. Russia is blockading Ukraine's ports and stealing grain shipments from the occupied areas. The West can't do much about that when it's all on Russia. European countries are indeed trying to mitigate the effects though. Granaries are being built on the Polish border to allow rail transport through European networks to Mediterranean ports, bypassing the Black Sea. 

 

The whole situation is fucked. But it's Vladimir Putin who fucked it. I don't know what you're arguing for or against here. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

27 minutes ago, unogueen said:

Okay, let's retire this russia gave us trump rhetoric. The seeds of the alt-right were already well present in academia, and was gladly carried by the  press. As for vassal states, some carry far more water than others it seems, and  let's not beat in the bush about it.  Wealth = protection. That's law of the land. And the expansion of the western states carries connotation far further than 'democracy'. If you wonder why china is so irritated, maybe it's all that propositioned firepower pointed it's way.

Russia didn’t give us trump they did coordinate with his campaign. 
 

but yes some states are more important than others congrats 

 

other than that I don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, you’re spitting nonsense

[unogueen]

14 minutes ago, CayceG said:

 

No one is arguing that there are unilateral or holistic 'good' actions. 

 

Despite that, militarization of Europe sure does carry painful memories. But painful memories are being created now in Ukraine with a Russian assault on that country. I'm sorry that German peoples' feefees are being hurt because they have to actually think about reactivating tank units. But that really doesn't matter when it comes to actual combat happening 1,500 km away. 

 

And logistical damage just comes with war. Russia is blockading Ukraine's ports and stealing grain shipments from the occupied areas. The West can't do much about that when it's all on Russia. European countries are indeed trying to mitigate the effects though. Granaries are being built on the Polish border to allow rail transport through European networks to Mediterranean ports, bypassing the Black Sea. 

 

The whole situation is fucked. But it's Vladimir Putin who fucked it. I don't know what you're arguing for or against here. 

Ukraine is not the only flashpoint on this planet at the moment. And the west playing lucyball with it's moral priorities is exhausting. There's a countless ways to do measurable good, but also make amends even for the vast tracts of human rights abuse it's been in responsible for centuries now. The us could have had the right of way if they put their promise to protect ukraine on paper when they asked them to de fang themselves. Now you're scrambling to not look like an ass.

[CayceG]

1 minute ago, unogueen said:

Ukraine is not the only flashpoint on this planet at the moment. And the west playing lucyball with it's moral priorities is exhausting. There's a countless ways to do measurable good, but also make amends even for the vast tracts of human rights abuse it's been in responsible for centuries now. The us could have had the right of was if they put their promise to protect ukraine on paper when they asked them to de fang themselves. Now you're scrambling to not look like an ass.

 

 

The Budapest Memorandum was never an international treaty that compelled anyone to defend Ukraine in exchange for their nuclear arsenal. Which, let's get one thing straight. The nuclear weapons never belonged to Ukraine. The command and control, along with the permissive action links to arm and fire the weapons, were never under Ukrainian control. That was all centered in Russia. Warheads and delivery systems merely wound up in Ukraine during the breakup. 

 

The movement of nuclear arms from Ukraine and the destruction of delivery systems on their territory was actually one of those measurable goods that you're talking about. Fewer nuclear weapons means a safer world. 

 

I don't understand how I look like an ass because I don't understand the points you're making. At this point, I'm just correcting the inaccuracies in what you're saying. 

[CitizenVectron]

1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Georgia isn’t in Europe and there’s been a lot of things that have “happened” since the 2014 Russian invasion of Eastern Ukraine

 

They also seem to be fixated on a (or lack of) "legal requirement" to help Ukraine. I don't have a legal requirement to help my neighbour if their house being flooded from a broken pipe, but I will do as much as I can if they ask.

[unogueen]

52 minutes ago, CayceG said:

 

 

The Budapest Memorandum was never an international treaty that compelled anyone to defend Ukraine in exchange for their nuclear arsenal. Which, let's get one thing straight. The nuclear weapons never belonged to Ukraine. The command and control, along with the permissive action links to arm and fire the weapons, were never under Ukrainian control. That was all centered in Russia. Warheads and delivery systems merely wound up in Ukraine during the breakup. 

 

The movement of nuclear arms from Ukraine and the destruction of delivery systems on their territory was actually one of those measurable goods that you're talking about. Fewer nuclear weapons means a safer world. 

 

I don't understand how I look like an ass because I don't understand the points you're making. At this point, I'm just correcting the inaccuracies in what you're saying. 

My point exactly. I wasn't referring to the nukes as deterrent.

[unogueen]

47 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

They also seem to be fixated on a (or lack of) "legal requirement" to help Ukraine. I don't have a legal requirement to help my neighbour if their house being flooded from a broken pipe, but I will do as much as I can if they ask.

You and your neighbour are far nearer cousins than international entities. Are you asking for airing of grievances on a global scale?

[CayceG]

Well this was an entire waste of time.

 

[CitizenVectron]

10 minutes ago, CayceG said:

Well this was an entire waste of time.

 

 

Just ignore them and move on, they contribute nothing to the board. Less than nothing, in fact, since they don't directly respond to questions and only take up time.

[BloodyHell]

3 hours ago, unogueen said:

vis-a-vis invasion no? Much has happened, all across the world, since change is the only constant. But the rest of us are not supposed leaders of the free world. So who's hands are dirty here?

This supposed defence of ukraine  has raised the calamty status of the world, not provided relief.

Ok  so you are just a russian apologist. 

 

You're just wrong, period. The right thing is arming Ukraine with weapons to defend their homeland. 

As if it would be less of a calamity to let Russia run roughshod. 

 

Again, just wrong. When a superpower is invading, any war against them is just. 

[unogueen]

There's a lot a lot of you let slide you know.

[unogueen]

I realize the practicality of it. There's been a lot of quiet before this.

[BloodyHell]

2 hours ago, unogueen said:

My point is that there is no unilateral good. And the increased militarization of europe carries painful memories for many, and is a dangerous precedent yet again. Along with the wild amount of logistical damage caused by the prolonged fighting across the world that will hopefully make it to light. The west carries too much inertia to be acting so recklessly.

Jesus christ man, you know what carries painful memories? Watching your loved ones and countrymen and women being murdered, raped and imprisoned. Not a thing you have said has made sense.