General Gaming Final Fantasy VII Rebirth (Remake Part 2) - "An Excellent But Inconsistent Experience" (Digital Foundry Technical Review)

[BloodyHell]

A Good FF7 Recap for the bad people:

 

 

[Keyser_Soze]

I think if at this point you're playing through rebirth you probably should hold off on watching a recap of the original game. Have genuine surprise in this game then when you're done with the game then go back and look at how the original game was.

 

Crisis Core is worth looking back on though since it does tie into this game a bit.

[legend]

1 hour ago, BloodyHell said:

Imo, this is the best combat in any RPG.

 

This is truly everything I’ve always wanted Final Fantasy to be. A serious story with fun an interesting character moments, a huge dose of goofy Japanese goodness, stupid, edgy style, and more Tifa. 
 

I’m dreading getting to the final chapters and having this end for another 4 years or more, but I truly couldn’t be more in love with what I’ve gotten so far. 
 

The key to getting me to do weird open world checklist stuff? Paint it in FF7, give a heavy dose of FF7 Lore, and two annoying and thirsy AI’s. 
 

 

 

I think it's the best (mostly) real-time combat in an RPG. BG3 combat is pretty amazing in how many different ways there are to play, but it's a completely different beast.

 

I've said it before, but if the KOTOR remake ever sees the light of day, I really want them to use this style. It would be a perfect fit for KOTOR.

[Spork3245]

3 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

I think if at this point you're playing through rebirth you probably should hold off on watching a recap of the original game. Have genuine surprise in this game then when you're done with the game then go back and look at how the original game was.

 

Crisis Core is worth looking back on though since it does tie into this game a bit.

I 1000000% agree as watching a recap of the OG will only spoil some elements of the remakes. It’s something to go back and watch later, though, for sure.

[Biggie]

10 hours ago, Biggie said:

Okay so I’m exploring upper Junon Region trying to locate and complete everything on the map but then 

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On the far right side where I’m going to explore I hit some kind of check point with a guy guarding it and he says I can’t go thru because of something that happened ?

I’m guessing I need to go to lower Junon first and advanced the story. I’ve tried finding another way/path but I can get to that area. 

Anybody know? He calls it the Crows Nest and won’t let me pass to finish the map. 

[Biggie]

Never mind I figured it out. 
 

Spoiler

Had to follow Rhonda’s dog Salmon to the Crows Nest to compete a side quest 

 And then the area opened up. Now I can finish it 100%

[BloodyHell]

1 hour ago, Biggie said:

Anybody know? He calls it the Crows Nest and won’t let me pass to finish the map. 

You need to do a side quest from the mayor of Under Junon to get in there

 

Edit: I guess you got it after I posted this. 

[Biggie]

31 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

You need to do a side quest from the mayor of Under Junon to get in there

 

Edit: I guess you got it after I posted this. 

Yeah I got it but good looking out. The game is one of my all time favorites. I never get tired of doing everything on the map before advancing the main story. Its usually the opposite for me in games. 

[Xbob42]

One issue I do have is they make it really obvious that the AI just has like a 95% chance to swap to attacking the player character rather than spreading out attacks across all characters that are in combat. This can lead to incredibly silly fights where you swap characters, and despite all the enemies being in the middle of attacks halfway across the field, they, apropos of nothing, all launch their big attacks at a character you switched to half a second ago.

 

This can also make some combat scenarios incredibly frustrating, especially coliseum-style challenges. This is because in some of those you have a ton of enemies all using a lot of undodgeable, unblockable attacks all at staggered intervals to where if you get hit even once, you can be chain attacked until dead with literally no way to avoid it... with the exception that you swap characters, in which case their minds snap and most of them will stop and change targets. Problem is, the game doesn't communicate how any of this works, so I imagine a lot of people are going to have some very frustrating encounters that they legit won't know how to solve, and the actual solution is patently silly.

 

I think the entire thing would work a lot better if enemies had a slightly higher chance to attack whatever character is being controlled, after a slight delay (with the delay being shorter and shorter if you're swapping a lot, to prevent cheese) rather than the current solution of "I SAW THE INVISIBLE PLAYER SPIRIT MOVE, GET 'EM" -- that said, I'm playing on Dynamic, this might just be a Dynamic difficulty issue.

There's plenty of ways to help mitigate it: provoke, protect, barrier, swapping, etc. I just think it makes things a little weird.

[MarSolo]

My current issues are pressuring and staggering for those Enemy Intel missions.

 

Also, is anyone having audio issues at certain points? I feel like the overworld music really drowns out some dialogue scenes, especially right where I’m at in the grasslands.

[legend]

17 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

One issue I do have is they make it really obvious that the AI just has like a 95% chance to swap to attacking the player character rather than spreading out attacks across all characters that are in combat. This can lead to incredibly silly fights where you swap characters, and despite all the enemies being in the middle of attacks halfway across the field, they, apropos of nothing, all launch their big attacks at a character you switched to half a second ago.

 

This can also make some combat scenarios incredibly frustrating, especially coliseum-style challenges. This is because in some of those you have a ton of enemies all using a lot of undodgeable, unblockable attacks all at staggered intervals to where if you get hit even once, you can be chain attacked until dead with literally no way to avoid it... with the exception that you swap characters, in which case their minds snap and most of them will stop and change targets. Problem is, the game doesn't communicate how any of this works, so I imagine a lot of people are going to have some very frustrating encounters that they legit won't know how to solve, and the actual solution is patently silly.

 

I think the entire thing would work a lot better if enemies had a slightly higher chance to attack whatever character is being controlled, after a slight delay (with the delay being shorter and shorter if you're swapping a lot, to prevent cheese) rather than the current solution of "I SAW THE INVISIBLE PLAYER SPIRIT MOVE, GET 'EM" -- that said, I'm playing on Dynamic, this might just be a Dynamic difficulty issue.

There's plenty of ways to help mitigate it: provoke, protect, barrier, swapping, etc. I just think it makes things a little weird.

 

 

I'm pretty sure this is entirely by design, and I decided I liked it back in Remake. When you know that's how it works, coupled with the fact that AI controlled party members tend to take less damage, you can manipulate the enemy AI. But manipulating them requires you to regularly swap party members and gives you another reason to not stick to just one character.

 

I do, however, feel like its switch time to when the enemies focus on you is a bit slower than it was in Remake which gives you more time to do things before swapping.

[best3444]

I'm going back and forth with this and 16 to see the differences. It's been a fun experiment. 

[MarSolo]

3 minutes ago, legend said:

 

 

I'm pretty sure this is entirely by design, and I decided I liked it back in Remake. When you know that's how it works, coupled with the fact that AI controlled party members tend to take less damage, you can manipulate the enemy AI. But manipulating them requires you to regularly swap party members and gives you another reason to not stick to just one character.

 

I do, however, feel like its switch time to when the enemies focus on you is a bit slower than it was in Remake which gives you more time to do things before swapping.

My battle strategy is usually “fill up an ATB bar or two with Cloud, hit a signature move, switch to another character, repeat, and then repeat again.”

 

Barrett especially is fun to switch to because you can immediately shoot off a charged attack, which fills up an ATB bar almost immediately.

[legend]

6 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

My battle strategy is usually “fill up an ATB bar or two with Cloud, hit a signature move, switch to another character, repeat, and then repeat again.”

 

Barrett especially is fun to switch to because you can immediately shoot off a charged attack, which fills up an ATB bar almost immediately.

 

Yeah, pipelining it so you switch to another character while your previous character's ability is animating is a great way to get off a lot of abilities.

[Keyser_Soze]

11 minutes ago, legend said:

I decided I liked it back in Remake. ... you can manipulate the enemy AI.

 

Going after your own kind, you sick bastard!

[legend]

6 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Going after your own kind, you sick bastard!

 

You realize that in building AI I have to "kill" them on a daily basis, right?  

[best3444]

Guys, FF16 is better than Rebirth. Kidding, but boy does it start out great. I will get fooled again here lol. I'm about fire up Rebirth now. I'm a FF junkie. 

[eventide11]

22 hours ago, best3444 said:

So I'm enjoying FF16 lol. The music is really good. I'm not sure how far I'll get but it's good which I expect earlier on. 

You stopped played Rebirth and went back to 16?

[best3444]

27 minutes ago, eventide11 said:

You stopped played Rebirth and went back to 16?

 

No, I'm playing them both. 

[best3444]

29 minutes ago, eventide11 said:

You stopped played Rebirth and went back to 16?

 

54 minutes ago, best3444 said:

Guys, FF16 is better than Rebirth. Kidding, but boy does it start out great. I will get fooled again here lol. I'm about fire up Rebirth now. I'm a FF junkie. 

 

[eventide11]

15 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

No, I'm playing them both. 

Yikes. Good luck with allllll that lol

[best3444]

1 minute ago, eventide11 said:

Yikes. Good luck with allllll that lol

 

Lol. Who knows how long I'll keep at 16. My main goal is to beat Rebirth.  🙌 

[MarSolo]

I can’t do two games at the same time because I start mixing up the controls. Playing Spider-Man 2 and Tears of the Kingdom at the same time led to me trying to web swing in TOTK and Link falling to his death.

[eventide11]

1 hour ago, best3444 said:

 

Lol. Who knows how long I'll keep at 16. My main goal is to beat Rebirth.  🙌 

Well I'm trying to finally finish GoW Ragnarok so I kinda get it. Finishing FF16 will be on the back burner for now though along with Rebirth

[legend]

1 hour ago, MarSolo said:

I can’t do two games at the same time because I start mixing up the controls. Playing Spider-Man 2 and Tears of the Kingdom at the same time led to me trying to web swing in TOTK and Link falling to his death.

 

In TotK, I wouldn't be surprised if someone figured out how to web sling with some weird invention!

[best3444]

Boy I played 4 hours of FF16 today. It's such a great game early on. This is the same thing that happened to me at its release. I'm going to keep at it and find out when it falls apart for me. 

 

I will continue Rebirth tonight after dinner. 

[Biggie]

3 minutes ago, best3444 said:

Boy I played 4 hours of FF16 today. It's such a great game early on. This is the same thing that happened to me at its release. I'm going to keep at it and find out when it falls apart for me. 

 

I will continue Rebirth tonight after dinner. 

Rebirth is superior (to me anyway)  I’m getting very good at combat and have all my materia set exactly like I want it. I’m handling everything very nicely now. Even bosses. I beat the boss 

Spoiler

Terror of the Deep quite easily. The one from the demo and I’m on normal. 

 

[best3444]

37 minutes ago, Biggie said:

Rebirth is superior (to me anyway)  I’m getting very good at combat and have all my materia set exactly like I want it. I’m handling everything very nicely now. Even bosses. I beat the boss 

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Terror of the Deep quite easily. The one from the demo and I’m on normal. 

 

 

Oh, Rebirth is definitely superior to FF16. That's awesome you learned how to deal with combat on normal now. So you must be heading up to the city of Junon. 

[Biggie]

42 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

Oh, Rebirth is definitely superior to FF16. That's awesome you learned how to deal with combat on normal now. So you must be heading up to the city of Junon. 

I reached the city. Now I’m back below finishing up all the side quests and intel. Then back to the main story. 

[best3444]

5 minutes ago, Biggie said:

I reached the city. Now I’m back below finishing up all the side quests and intel. Then back to the main story. 

 

Chapter 5 then?

[Biggie]

1 minute ago, best3444 said:

 

Chapter 5 then?

I think? That girl 

Spoiler

Yuffie said she is going to kill the leader of Shinra. And I was about to head up.  

I got some stuff to finish up first. 

[eventide11]

If yall FF noobs are liking part 2 you're gonna love part 3 whatever they call it. Some of the moments in that last quarter are part of gaming legend and I'll leave it at that

[best3444]

14 minutes ago, Biggie said:

I think? That girl 

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Yuffie said she is going to kill the leader of Shinra. And I was about to head up.  

I got some stuff to finish up first. 

 

Yuffie is funny. 

 

1 minute ago, eventide11 said:

If yall FF noobs are liking part 2 you're gonna love part 3 whatever they call it. Some of the moments in that last quarter are part of gaming legend and I'll leave it at that

 

That's awesome. 

[Biggie]

You know what is hilarious? Out of everything I have defeated in the game (including bosses) nothing has been more difficult or has taken as many tries as that goddamn Queens Blood card game LUL

[best3444]

6 minutes ago, Biggie said:

You know what is hilarious? Out of everything I have defeated in the game (including bosses) nothing has been more difficult or has taken as many tries as that goddamn Queens Blood card game LUL

 

I had a difficult time in Costa del Sol because I didn't know the rules. But I memorized cards and eventually won.