What’s next for Democrats?

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

Good article by Matt Taibbi on how the Dems have been avoiding their internal problems and their ability to win enough of the electorate to win more local elections since essentially 2004.

 

I tend to agree, but I still think a hard left on policy won’t work, for better or for worse.  At least for now, when much of the base is center-left.  I still think recapturing a wider swathe of center-left voters—including those who are maybe more culturally conservative but more liberal economically—is their best bet, even though my own policy preferences run farther left than that.

 

Aside from stuff like debt forgiveness, I think one track the Dems could follow would be to focus more on labor law, which can span differences on cultural issues demographically.  The unions aren’t coming back, but focusing on bolstering what remains of them could help rebuild support in the blue-collar ranks, even by simply sending the signal that ‘we’re at least trying to help you, the other guys could care less’; I.e., going after right-to-work laws, strengthening sectoral bargaining, etc.  

 

Health care is the tricky part.  I don’t think, at present and in the medium-term, there will be enough broad-based support for m4a to make it a winning issue, but ‘Medicare for all who want it’ along with ‘let’s fix Obamacare’ might work.

 

I think the Dems can do all this reform without necessarily giving up their gains in the ‘culture wars’, since the country is now more widely okay with stuff like rights for sexual minorities and gender equality; if they just shift their main agenda’s focus to being a pro-labor party and more quietly retain their current positions on defending sexual/racial/gender minorities.

 

Alternatively, the country might just be permanently and irreparably divided in such a way, and the parties controlled by special interests in such a way, and automation accelerating in such a way, and the dollar-as-reserve currency hurtling towards doom in such a way, and the climate self-destructing in such a way, that neither party will serve to do anything but hasten its complete collapse no matter what reforms are made, so it would be better for everyone to just hide your children, gather gold bullion in your basement, and prepare to weather the violent death of the American polity.

 

I’ll bet on political reform and civilizational survival, but I won’t call anyone, least of all Democrats, stupid for being a sceptic.

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

Fuck I ended up writing my own article.  Just read Taibbi’s, unless you have a whole lotta time to waste.

[CitizenVectron]

Focus on helping people instead of fundraising. That's it.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Doing away with right to work and passing card check (and other labor strengthening laws and policies) would do more for democratic electoral outcomes than any other of the things they could do. Not only does the political science back this up, but it's why when Republicans took control of a state in 2010, like michigan or Wisconsin and the like, they try to immediately pass so-called right to work and dismember government/public sector/teacher unions.

 

That said the democratic party is far too unwieldy and poorly run to be an effective political party as an agent of change. It's held together by fear of the fascist opposition and an extremely loose and constantly shifting definition of progress. 

[marioandsonic]

Getting shellacked in 2022 and 2024, and watch helplessly as our democracy dies due to a more clever and subtle version of Trump becoming president.

 

That's what is next for them.

[finaljedi]

Nothing, their leadership is old enough to have had sex with Kennedy and the younger more progressive crowd is mostly marginalized

[Jason]

Vichy

[chakoo]

Die of old age as the country continues to crumble around them because they do not desire to foster the younger, more progressive side, of the party that is trying to move it forward. 

[Joe]

I think if you take the position that a Biden administration won't change anything, you are speaking from a place of incredible privilege. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

I think part of the answer is this right here:

How Sara Gideon Lost to Collins the Day After She Entered the Race - Mainer

MAINERNEWS.COM

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The Democrat’s tone-deaf, big-money campaign alienated struggling Mainers, begging them for contributions even on Election Day, when it still had millions in the bank

Quote

Citing research by Van Ness Creative Strategies, the Washington Post published a memo last month that found “of the 23,000 Facebook ads Sara Gideon ran this cycle, zero included written copy with the words ‘jobs’ or ‘economy.’”

Don't fucking do this. The whole article is a goddamn indictment of the entire DCCC media apparatus and this is probably the most instructive quote of it.

[Joe]

6 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

I think part of the answer is this right here:

How Sara Gideon Lost to Collins the Day After She Entered the Race - Mainer

MAINERNEWS.COM

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The Democrat’s tone-deaf, big-money campaign alienated struggling Mainers, begging them for contributions even on Election Day, when it still had millions in the bank

Don't fucking do this. The whole article is a goddamn indictment of the entire DCCC media apparatus and this is probably the most instructive quote of it.

 

That is a pretty damning nugget of information to be sure, but do we have any indication the DCCC did this as a whole? I'm curious and it would make sense if it was true.

[Greatoneshere]

35 minutes ago, Joe said:

I think if you take the position that a Biden administration won't change anything, you are speaking from a place of incredible privilege. 

 

I think the argument isn't that a Biden administration won't change anything, it's that a Biden administration won't change enough, nor put us on a path that changes things enough so that we avoid very real existential threats/long-term problems we are going to be facing eventually.

 

That assessment has little to do with privilege. We may experience short term relief or short term gains with a Biden administration (you can only go do better when the last president was Trump), but the otherwise tranquilizing drug of gradualism will not be enough for a world that needs immediate, revolutionary reform/change if we're to be able to even have a chance of handling the multiple problems (dwindling resources and the resulting fighting to erupt as a result if science doesn't solve the problem first) coming our way down the road. Does that seem incorrect?

[Joe]

1 minute ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I think the argument isn't that a Biden administration won't change anything, it's that a Biden administration won't change enough, nor put us on a path that changes enough so that we avoid very real existential threats/long-term problems.

 

That assessment has little to do with privilege. We may experience short term relief or short term gains with a Biden administration, but the otherwise tranquilizing drug of gradualism will not be enough for a world that needs immediate, revolutionary reform/change if we're to be able to even have a chance of handling the multiple problems (dwindling resources and the resulting fighting to erupt as a result if science doesn't solve the problem first) coming our way down the road. Does that seem incorrect?

 

Doesn't seem incorrect at all, but it's not really what I was responding to. There's a widely held belief among leftists on Twitter that Biden won't change anything, but if you're a former DACA recipient or drowning in student loans, this is obviously not true.

[Greatoneshere]

8 minutes ago, Joe said:

 

Doesn't seem incorrect at all, but it's not really what I was responding to. There's a widely held belief among leftists on Twitter that Biden won't change anything, but if you're a former DACA recipient or drowning in student loans, this is obviously not true.

 

Ah, I follow you - I only meant users on this board. I think the leftists you're referring to are just butthurt they lost the primary and are just hoping/aching for more from a Biden administration than they reasonably should expect.

 

I'm a progressive, a leftist like them, but I lost hope when Biden won the primary. At this point, I know what to expect, and am just pleasantly surprised when a Biden decision isn't just a corporate, centrist Democrat position, policy, or political appointment. At least we're returning to Obama-era normalcy (in a post-woke Trump world, so maybe slightly better than Obama on cultural and social issues), so leftists will just have to suck it up and put Biden's feet to the fire as much as possible.

 

But they're definitely speaking in hyperbole - of course Biden will change some things - we're going from Trump to Biden - a lot will likely change, back to Obama era. That's a big change. But nothing will change substantively in the way(s) those leftists want. Why they expected things to change in that way with Biden I don't know, because Biden's position on things has always been clear: he's a corporate, centrist, Democrat who respects the Republican nutjobs across the aisle, believes in bipartisanship (lol) and ran on a campaign of decency and kindness.

 

In private, he told Wall Street that "nothing will really change" under a Biden administration for them (this is from June 2019). So, uh, yeah. We got Biden, so what did leftists expect? In some ways, leftists are right - Biden himself said "nothing will fundamentally change", so are they truly wrong?  

 

 

Joe Biden to rich donors: "Nothing would fundamentally change" if he's elected | Salon.com

WWW.SALON.COM

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Along with praise for the "civility" of racists, Biden assures donors "no one's standard of living will change"

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

7 minutes ago, Joe said:

 

That is a pretty damning nugget of information to be sure, but do we have any indication the DCCC did this as a whole? I'm curious and it would make sense if it was true.

Dscc my bad there but

Quote

Gideon “didn’t have a single Maine person on her [communications] team,” said Savage. “Not one. They just don’t understand Maine.”

A review of the Gideon campaign’s finance filings reveals page after page of big payments to out-of-state consulting firms and media companies. DSCC executive director Mindy Myers personally received over $100,000 from Gideon’s campaign for consulting services. Bully Pulpit Interactive, a Democratic ad agency that also worked for Biden this year, was paid over $8 million. Aisle 518 Strategies, a D.C. digital fundraising outfit, raked in over $6 million.  

Grassroots Media, an ad-buying operation based in Philadelphia, pocketed over $21 million from the Gideon campaign. The company (which did not respond to Mainer’s request for comment) lists only two people on its website as employees: president and founder Mike D’Ettorre and an assistant hired fresh out of college last summer.

Dscc also puts their finger on the scales early in primary campaigns for candidates who will not challenge their leadership or ideology. 

[CitizenVectron]

Yeah US elections are effectively a wealth-transfer from poor to rich, at this point (like everything else).

[Zaku3]

Just now, CitizenVectron said:

Yeah US elections are effectively a wealth-transfer from poor to rich, at this point (like everything else).

 

America is a pyramid scheme change my mind.

[SimpleG]

1 hour ago, Joe said:

 

Doesn't seem incorrect at all, but it's not really what I was responding to. There's a widely held belief among leftists on Twitter that Biden won't change anything, but if you're a former DACA recipient or drowning in student loans, this is obviously not true.

I am not gonna hold my breath regarding student loan cancellation.

[Joe]

25 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

I am not gonna hold my breath regarding student loan cancellation.

 

I wouldn't advise you to. That shit is dangerous.

[Jason]

5 minutes ago, Joe said:

I wouldn't advise you to. That shit is dangerous.

 

But it makes edging so much better.