Joe Biden beats Donald Trump, officially making Trump a one-term twice impeached, twice popular-vote losing president

[Massdriver]

1 hour ago, mclumber1 said:

It is interesting how Biden has such a commanding lead among black voters in SC.  Even Harris is barely on the radar there.  I think this has less to do with Buttigieg (or Harris) than it has to do with Biden being a known and trusted candidate.  

If Buttigieg pulls off a win in Iowa and New Hampshire, it’s a good bet that his percentage will go up a bit. I still think he has some fundamental issues appealing to the non white non educated vote, but I think it’s plausible many could come around if he starts gaining momentum. 

[Jwheel86]

13 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

If Buttigieg pulls off a win in Iowa and New Hampshire, it’s a good bet that his percentage will go up a bit. I still think he has some fundamental issues appealing to the non white non educated vote, but I think it’s plausible many could come around if he starts gaining momentum. 

 

Obama struggled with black voters to in SC until he won Iowa and was seen as having a chance with white voters. I don't think that model works for Buttigieg since he's got police issues in South Bend and the older black community is pretty socially conservative. 

 

20 minutes ago, CayceG said:

Question:

 

Are black voters by and large politically unengaged during primaries? If so, Biden't lead could be due largely to name recognition. 

Someone tell me if I'm wrong. 

 

Obama legacy plus "pragmatism". Remove Biden my guess is they go largely to Bernie unless Hillary gets in. 

[Anathema-]

2 hours ago, mclumber1 said:

It is interesting how Biden has such a commanding lead among black voters in SC.  Even Harris is barely on the radar there.  I think this has less to do with Buttigieg (or Harris) than it has to do with Biden being a known and trusted candidate.  

 

I don't know anyone who thinks it's anything other than fear of the unknown candidate. Southern black women primary voters, the ones driving the numbers in the south, are going to pick the one they think will most certainly beat trump and the numbers have always said Biden.

[CitizenVectron]

Well...

 

 

[Massdriver]

The horror!!!

[Anathema-]

Pete is gonna burn up in the spotlight.

[TheGreatGamble]

Pete has zero chance of winning the presidency. Im in no way saying it's right, in fact its horrible, but much of America didn't want a female president. Being gay will hurt him far worse than being a woman hurt Hillary. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

11 hours ago, Anathema- said:

 

I don't know anyone who thinks it's anything other than fear of the unknown candidate. Southern black women primary voters, the ones driving the numbers in the south, are going to pick the one they think will most certainly beat trump and the numbers have always said Biden.

 

[SaysWho?]

 

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Actively courting tea party votes as a Democrat is just lol

[Massdriver]

Quote

 

Hillary Clinton said Monday she rejected judgmental “tear it down” talk that can dominate social media and influence young activists, echoing President Barack Obama’s criticism of the cancel “call-out culture.”

 

“I don’t understand this tear it down, revolution talk - whether it’s from the right or the left. I think it’s an excuse,” the former Democratic presidential nominee. “Compromise cannot be a dirty word in a democracy if you expect to maintain a democracy.”

 

She added: “If you think it’s your way or the highway, and you have a direct line to the almighty ... that’s a theocracy, not a democracy.”

 

https://www.ajc.com/blog/politics/clinton-rejects-tear-down-culture-atlanta-book-tour-stop/EqVQWI6kmzucmqWu2DhFbK/#

[Joe]

A Butti Abrams ticket would be spicy.

[SaysWho?]

Let's try compromising from the left, eh? We already tried, "Voting for the Iraq War with a frowny face," as a compromise.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

There is simply no compromise with Republicans, they simply won't do it, and recent history shows it. How do these people not fucking get it? The debate is within the democratic party, and requires one part staking a position from the start that isn't in itself compromised. Would a president Bernie veto a bill that lowers the Medicare age, or expands Medicaid significantly? Or one that expands the exchanges while tightening how much the insurance companies have to spend on care and not profits or administration? He wouldn't, and I think his vote for the ACA shows this. He would continue to fight for M4A, as well he should, but barring that he wouldn't deny health insurance to millions in need because it is not perfect.

 

The point of the so called purity tests is what do you want to see as an endgoal? As the M4A example, do you want to see a future where there is no profit in health insurance and health insurance is guaranteed without the need for bullshit bureaucracy regardless of employment? Or one where profit or bureaucracy is largely fine, and the people left bankrupt or out of the system are tragic losses.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Obama should tell Obama about Obama

 

[Joe]

Eh, I dont think he meant that for the reasons you think he did. He was a more moderate candidate than Hillary in 2008.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

34 minutes ago, Jose said:

Eh, I dont think he meant that for the reasons you think he did. He was a more moderate candidate than Hillary in 2008.

What. No. Ideologically and on the major issues in 08, they were both about the same, but Obama had opposed the iraq war from day 1, and he very much appealed to black voters and white liberal voters alike, hence his strong first place finish in Iowa.

[Joe]

1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

What. No. Ideologically and on the major issues in 08, they were both about the same, but Obama had opposed the iraq war from day 1, and he very much appealed to black voters and white liberal voters alike, hence his strong first place finish in Iowa.

 

Hillary was pro mandate, Obama was not. Hillary also had a more liberal voting record in the Senate.

[CitizenVectron]

I mean they could both be more progressive in some areas and less progressive in others.

[SaysWho?]

Obama was attacked for having the most liberal voting record in the Senate.

 

He was also to the left on flag burning and the legality of it.

 

Obama's full quote isn't as dismissive as the snippet suggests.

 

Quote

“I think it is important for candidates to push past what I was able to achieve as president. I wouldn’t run the same campaign today, in this environment, as I ran in 2008, in part because we made enough progress since 2008, of which I am very proud, that it moved what’s possible. So I don’t want people to just revert to what’s safe, I want them to push out and try more, alright? So we got the Affordable Care Act. It was a really good starter home, as I say,” he said. “I don’t want people just standing pat, because we still have millions of people who are uninsured.”

 

“I don’t take it as a criticism when people say, ‘Hey, that’s great Obama did what he did, and now we want to do more.’ I hope so. That’s the whole point,” he said. “I think it is very important to all the candidates who are running, at every level, to pay some attention to where voters actually are, and how they think about their lives. And I don’t think we should be deluded into thinking that the resistance to certain approaches to things is simply because voters haven’t heard a bold enough proposal, and as soon as they hear a bold enough proposal that’s going to activate them. Because you know what? It turns out people are cautious, because they don’t have a margin for error.”

...

“Even as we push the envelope and we are bold in our vision,” Obama said, “we also have to be rooted in reality and the fact that voters, including Democratic voters and certainly persuadable independents or even moderate Republicans, are not driven by the same views that are reflected on certain left-leaning Twitter feeds or the activist wing of our party.”

 

However, I don't think "Yes we can, but," is what he was thinking when he first recited that phrase.

[Joe]

Yes we can was never about sweeping change. 

[SaysWho?]

This is from Obama's speech when he announced his presidency:

 

Quote

I know that I haven't spent a lot of time learning the ways of Washington. But I've been there long enough to know that the ways of Washington must change.

 

The genius of our Founders is that they designed a system of government that can be changed. And we should take heart, because we've changed this country before. In the face of tyranny, a band of patriots brought an empire to its knees. In the face of secession, we unified a nation and set the captives free. In the face of Depression, we put people back to work and lifted millions out of poverty. We welcomed immigrants to our shores. We opened railroads to the west. We landed a man on the moon. And we heard a King's call to let "justice roll down like waters, and righteousness like a mighty stream."

 

We've done this before: Each and every time, a new generation has risen up and done what's needed to be done. Today we are called once more, and it is time for our generation to answer that call. For that is our unyielding faith -- that in -- in the face of impossible odds, people who love their country can change it.

That's what Abraham Lincoln understood. He had his doubts. He had his defeats. He had his skeptics. He had his setbacks. But through his will and his words, he moved a nation and helped free a people. It's because of the millions who rallied to his cause that we're no longer divided, North and South, slave and free.

 

Quote

And as people have looked away in disillusionment and frustration, we know what's filled the void: the cynics, the lobbyists, the special interests -- who've turned our government into a game only they can afford to play. They write the checks and you get stuck with the bill. They get the access while you get to write a letter. They think they own this government, but we're here today to take it back. The time for that kind of politics is over. It is through. It's time to turn the page -- right here and right now.

 

And even when talking about the ethics bill he sponsored and helped get passed:

 

Quote

Look, look, we have made some progress already. I was proud to help lead the fight in Congress that led to the most sweeping ethics reforms since Watergate. 

 

Now, I know that he also made clear that we're the change we were waiting for, that we must take responsibility to make change and not just the government. 

 

But he clearly was talking about sweeping changes and an audacity to overcome the cynics and naysayers to do what needs to be done.

[Joe]

I disagree. He was purposefully vague to get as many voters as possible. The most concrete stand he took on an issue (health insurance), he took the moderate position.

[CitizenVectron]

Yeah the current uproar over his comments is overblown once you read the entire statement. It's basically "we should be pushing for better things and build on what we've already done, but some people are more in the middle so don't expect them to automatically be as excited, don't forget about them."

[Anathema-]

9 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

 

 

Probably more than a dint of truth here; butti's numbers don't seem to be improving in the south, where he has the most issues convincing people he cares about them. Rich people do believe he cares about them though, because he does.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

59 minutes ago, Anathema- said:

 

Probably more than a dint of truth here; butti's numbers don't seem to be improving in the south, where he has the most issues convincing people he cares about them. Rich people do believe he cares about them though, because he does.

I see nothing that makes me think he's anything other than a slick tonged devil trying to get your pants off, to borrow a phrase.

[CitizenVectron]

Is Pete better than Trump? Oh of course yes. Is he better than Biden? Ppppprobably, if for no other reason than he's not 70+. Those are the strongest endorsements I can give him.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

 

[thewhyteboar]

43 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

 

This comment:

 

 

[Keyser_Soze]

Is @SaysWho? making the debate thread again? 

[SaysWho?]

32 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

Is @SaysWho? making the debate thread again? 

 

 

ya

[Keyser_Soze]

16 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

 

ya

[PaladinSolo]

Pompeo is ecpected to resign and run for the KS senate seat. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

8 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said:

Pompeo is ecpected to resign and run for the KS senate seat. 

Lololololololololol

 

Talk about a fucking demotion, but the job is easier I'll give him that.

[SaysWho?]

I hope he wins the nomination and I hope all this crooked shit follows him into election day.