Keyser_Soze Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 25 minutes ago, Xbob42 said: Mirrors absolutely do not generally work! Most of the time they're conveniently broken or are literally just sort of shiny gray rectangles. If you're real lucky you'll get some shitty looking low-res, murky ass podunk reflection that ruins the entire scene. I mean I've noticed that too but I'm not sure I'd chalk that up to technical limitations just lazy developers. Just because you can put a ray traced reflection in doesn't mean every mirror will have a reflection in a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said: I mean I've noticed that too but I'm not sure I'd chalk that up to technical limitations just lazy developers. Just because you can put a ray traced reflection in doesn't mean every mirror will have a reflection in a game. It's absolutely due to technical limitations. Actual reflections are expensive as hell on hardware. Faked reflections where you put an actual copy of the room and NPCs/objects take a lot more work and have their own issues and limitations. That's why even when we do get "real" reflections, they're, like I said, really terrible, or baked on in a limited environment. But with ray tracing, as we see in Control, you (basically) just designate the properties of an object like glass or a polished floor and the ray tracing does the rest, no need for trickery or fancy techniques or low quality reflections that look terrible. Like I said, people might think they wouldn't notice good reflections (that's not even getting into the amazing lighting possible) but you put things side by side and it becomes much more clear. From something subtle that adds to the mood like noticing the reflection of a vending machine in the background... To something a little more interesting, like being able to watch NPCs have conversations in a reflection: To something much more dramatic, like completely changing the mood of an entire room: Even in a game not really designed around these things, I've found myself able to notice enemies in reflections ready to throw projectiles at me, or admire all the shit I'm blowing up reflected from multiple different angles all around me. I cannot wait to see what they do to utilize these things in something like stealth games, including hopefully new Batman titles. Reflections and lighting/shadows aren't just neat and pretty, they have tons of gameplay interaction possibilities, which I think is maybe what you may have been getting at above, but I think we're already partway there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Series S not getting RT effects at all. As stated earlier in this thread, Series X and PS5 get them at 1080p60/4k30fps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Oh yeah, it looks like it runs like shit on the Series X as well. Nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 15 minutes ago, Xbob42 said: Oh yeah, it looks like it runs like shit on the Series X as well. Nice. 30fps target, which we've known for a while. I'm curious if there's any upscaling going on there. Seems like there's some shimmering on gates and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 21 minutes ago, crispy4000 said: 30fps target, which we've known for a while. I'm curious if there's any upscaling going on there. Seems like there's some shimmering on gates and the like. That shit ain't running at 30, there's stuttering and drops the entire video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, Xbob42 said: That shit ain't running at 30, there's stuttering and drops the entire video. Eh, it's ballpark. Doesn't immediately strike me as poor in the way Age of Calamity does, for example. We'll see what DF says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 16 minutes ago, Xbob42 said: That shit ain't running at 30, there's stuttering and drops the entire video. Better pray that LG patch works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 39 minutes ago, crispy4000 said: 30fps target, which we've known for a while. I'm curious if there's any upscaling going on there. Seems like there's some shimmering on gates and the like. So, comparable performance to a 2060 Super? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said: Better pray that LG patch works! VRR doesn’t work at 30fps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said: So, comparable performance to a 2060 Super? It's impossible to gauge at this point. That chart is with DLSS enabled, and RT on high. We don't know the equivalent RT setting Series X is running at. Can't rule out image reconstruction, dynamic resolution, or sub-4k averages either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Spork3245 said: VRR doesn’t work at 30fps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Just now, Keyser_Soze said: Seriously, though, I think most HDMI 2.1 TVs are 40 and up for VRR. It’s really amazing for making unstable framerates appear smooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: Seriously, though, I think most HDMI 2.1 TVs are 40 and up for VRR. It’s really amazing for making unstable framerates appear smooth. It's really hard to generalize, I think it is manufacturer dependent -- I think some Samsung TVs only support VRR @>48Hz @4k. To your point, I haven't seen any TVs that claim to support HDMI 2.1 VRR below 40Hz @4k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, crispy4000 said: It's impossible to gauge at this point. That chart is with DLSS enabled, and RT on high. We don't know what the equivalent RT Series X is running at. We can't rule out image reconstruction, dynamic resolution, or sub-4k averages either. Having the console version run "ultra" settings would be a first. Everything I have seen suggests that DLSS quality mode creates an image that is as good, and sometimes better, than natively rendered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 Just now, AbsolutSurgen said: Having the console version run "ultra" settings would be a first. Everything I have seen suggests that DLSS quality mode creates an image that is as good, and sometimes better, than natively rendered. That's true as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Also it doesn't look like maxed out raytracing either. You don't see issues like that with raytracing, so I'm assuming for the water they're using SSR, which is famous for shit like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 31 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: It's really hard to generalize, I think it is manufacturer dependent -- I think some Samsung TVs only support VRR @>48Hz @4k. To your point, I haven't seen any TVs that claim to support HDMI 2.1 VRR below 40Hz @4k. Are Samsungs full HDMI 2.1 yet? I know the “kinda but not really” ones that had some 2.1 features through a beefed up 2.0 port a couple years ago did cap at 48. I thought the standard was 40 for (actual) 2.1, but I could certainly be mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Just now, Spork3245 said: Are Samsungs full HDMI 2.1 yet? I know the “kinda but not really” ones that had some 2.1 features a couple years ago did cap at 48. I thought the standard was 40 for (actual) 2.1, but I could certainly be mistaken. I'm pretty sure the Q800T is HDMI 2.1 on one of its inputs -- RTINGs reports it is only VRR above 48Hz. Could the data there be wrong? Sure. I've never seen a standard for the minimum VRR frequency (not saying there isn't one, just that I have never seen it referenced). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: I'm pretty sure the Q800T is HDMI 2.1 on one of its inputs -- RTINGs reports it is only VRR above 48Hz. Could the data there be wrong? Sure. I've never seen a standard for the minimum VRR frequency (not saying there isn't one, just that I have never seen it referenced). Okay, did some digging, the standard is 30-120hz, but that’s just the tech standards behind it. It’s up to the TV maker to support the ranges on their panels. So, any GPU/console/whatever that is hdmi 2.1 is capable of VRR starting at 30fps, however, the TV’s capability for VRR can vary: LG could put out a model that can go down to 30hz, and also a model that stops at 50hz, and both would be considered 2.1 compliant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Well, 1080p/60 with RT actually seems better than it’s running on pc for most people due to a mysterious bottleneck apparently everyone has. So there’s that. Really leaning towards just playing at 30fps on pc with everything maxed and figure at least it looks better than next gen still. I don’t think they will be able to fix this enough for 4kdlss/60/RT on with any current hardware, will just have to be brute forced into it eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 17 minutes ago, stepee said: Well, 1080p/60 with RT actually seems better than it’s running on pc for most people due to a mysterious bottleneck apparently everyone has. So there’s that. Really leaning towards just playing at 30fps on pc with everything maxed and figure at least it looks better than next gen still. I don’t think they will be able to fix this enough for 4kdlss/60/RT on with any current hardware, will just have to be brute forced into it eventually. The bottleneck isn’t mysterious, it’s the bottleneck of “playing a Ubisoft” game; an automatic 30% reduction in performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: The bottleneck isn’t mysterious, it’s the bottleneck of “playing a Ubisoft” game; an automatic 30% reduction in performance. I guess since this is next gen when maxed out they upped it to an impressive 50%! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Went and tested it out, their water definitely seems to be using the basic SSR, which has several shortcomings, such as: halo effect around distant objects, reflections dropping in quality tremendously after a certain distance, reflections absent from edges of screen, very apparent when turning the camera, etc. This on top of the reflections being of much lower quality, which isn't too noticeable in something distorted and moving like water, which is probably why they used it. SSR: Raytracing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 DF noted similar compromises in Spider-Man MM. We’ll see what they say about WD3 on Series X. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPDunks4 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Apparently Demon Souls has no Ray Tracing. http://www.levelup.com//images/favicon.ico Confirman que Demon’s Souls no tendrá raytracing en PlayStation 5 | LevelUp WWW.LEVELUP.COM LEVEL UP platicó con Gavin Moore, director creativo del juego y miembro de SIE Japan Studio Quote “We don't actually implement raytracing in Demon's Souls . It's not because we couldn't or because the PlayStation 5 couldn't do it, it's fully capable of doing it, "said Moore. Now the question is, if the PlayStation 5 can be raytraced and it could have been implemented in Demon's Souls , why leave it out? As explained by Moore, it was a decision they made since it was something that was outside their initial ideal of the project. Also, there is a certain cost to implement it and they preferred to prioritize other elements. “It's like any other graphic improvement, there is a cost [to implement raytracing]. If we had implemented ray tracing in the game, that would mean that we would have had to leave something out. There is a limited time in game development. When we started development, we didn't know there would be ray tracing in the game, so it wasn't in our original vision. What we wanted to focus on was the settings and the look of the characters. Everything is lighting in real time with shadows in real time ”, were the words of Moore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomCat Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 29 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said: Apparently Demon Souls has no Ray Tracing. http://www.levelup.com//images/favicon.ico Confirman que Demon’s Souls no tendrá raytracing en PlayStation 5 | LevelUp WWW.LEVELUP.COM LEVEL UP platicó con Gavin Moore, director creativo del juego y miembro de SIE Japan Studio The Digital version is 90bucks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleG Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, TomCat said: The Digital version is 90bucks? There is the regular and deluxe versions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomCat Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Just now, SimpleG said: There is the regular and deluxe versions Well the article didnt say Digital Deluxe it just said Digital. maybe its a Translation error since the original article was in Spanish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleG Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, TomCat said: Well the article didnt say Digital Deluxe it just said Digital. maybe its a Translation error since the original article was in Spanish Worked just fine for me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomCat Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 In case you missed it: Demon's Souls will have a digital edition that will cost $ 90 USD When we started development we didn't know there would be ray tracing in the game, so it wasn't in our original vision. What we wanted to focus on was the settings and the look of the characters. Everything is lighting in real time with shadows in real time ”, were the words of Moore. And you, what do you think about this news? Would you have liked Demon's Souls to have raytracing? Tell us in the comments. Demon's Souls is coming to PlayStation 5 on November 12. You can learn more about this game by clicking here. And what you posted doesnt say Digital Deluxe version its says 2nd version. The remake is the 2nd version of the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Just now, TomCat said: In case you missed it: Demon's Souls will have a digital edition that will cost $ 90 USD When we started development we didn't know there would be ray tracing in the game, so it wasn't in our original vision. What we wanted to focus on was the settings and the look of the characters. Everything is lighting in real time with shadows in real time ”, were the words of Moore. And you, what do you think about this news? Would you have liked Demon's Souls to have raytracing? Tell us in the comments. Demon's Souls is coming to PlayStation 5 on November 12. You can learn more about this game by clicking here. And what you posted doesnt say Digital Deluxe version its says 2nd version. The remake is the 2nd version of the game Because Big Poppa M has the $$$ to bankroll us while Son(insert yen sign here I don’t know how to do it on my phone) has to pull out their super soakers squirting $30 extra all over our shirts. Halo Master Chief Collection = 6 remasters enhanced for Xbox Series X for free with gamepass or if you own it Demon Souls = One remaster enhanced for PS5 for $90 no matter if you own the original or not hmmm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleG Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, TomCat said: In case you missed it: Demon's Souls will have a digital edition that will cost $ 90 USD When we started development we didn't know there would be ray tracing in the game, so it wasn't in our original vision. What we wanted to focus on was the settings and the look of the characters. Everything is lighting in real time with shadows in real time ”, were the words of Moore. And you, what do you think about this news? Would you have liked Demon's Souls to have raytracing? Tell us in the comments. Demon's Souls is coming to PlayStation 5 on November 12. You can learn more about this game by clicking here. And what you posted doesnt say Digital Deluxe version its says 2nd version. The remake is the 2nd version of the game I thought your stupidity was just a troll , but boy was I wrong. You know how links work right? Click the link or I can help you We're just over a month away from PlayStation 5 making its debut and bringing Demon's Souls and other launch games with it. If you are interested in this project, you should know that, in addition to its regular version, Sony is preparing a second digital edition that will cost $ 90 USD. Through the PlayStation Blog , Sony Interactive Entertainment announced the Digital Deluxe Edition of Demon's Souls . It is a package that includes the digital version of the game, as well as content to use within the game that seeks to prepare you for this challenge. It will also spoil you with the original soundtrack. In case you missed it: The Demon's Souls remake will be exclusive to PS5; will not reach PC Next, we present all the content of the Digital Deluxe Edition of Demon's Souls ; Soundtrack Legendary Hero Soul Renowned Warrior Soul Storied warrior soul Red-Eye Knight Armor Boletarian Royalty Armor Ritual Blade Hoplite Shield Ring of Longevity Preservation grains Phosphorescent Grains Bearbug grains Large Hardstone Shard Moonlightstone Shard upload image 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomCat Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 15 minutes ago, stepee said: Because Big Poppa M has the $$$ to bankroll us while Son(insert yen sign here I don’t know how to do it on my phone) has to pull out their super soakers squirting $30 extra all over our shirts. Halo Master Chief Collection = 6 remasters enhanced for Xbox Series X for free with gamepass or if you own it Demon Souls = One remaster enhanced for PS5 for $90 no matter if you own the original or not hmmm lol in my younger days of fighting the SDF on IGN I would always post SON¥ to piss them off M$ was my microsoft 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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