General Gaming Raytracing console performance thread - DF Looks at RE2/RE3 raytracing 'upgrade'

[crispy4000]

What is ‘next gen’ about Control Ultimate Edition on PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X|S? – 505 Games Support

SUPPORT.505GAMES.COM

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Performance Mode – Targets 60fps performance with 1440p render resolution and 4K output Graphics Mode – Targets 30fps performance with ray tracing (transparency and reflections)...

 

• Performance Mode – Targets 60fps performance with 1440p render resolution and 4K output
• Graphics Mode– Targets 30fps performance with ray tracing (transparency and reflections) at 1220p render resolution and 4K output
  • NOTE: Only the Performance mode is available on Xbox Series S. It is targeting 60fps with no ray tracing, at 900p render resolution, and 1080p output. This is a limitation of the hardware, not the game.
• PS5 DualSense Support – Support for vibrations and triggers.
• PS5 Activities and Help – Cards and videos that help guide you through the game, and keep track of your progress.

 

As good of an argument as any that a better upscaling solution is needed.

Control also has RT shadows and diffuse lighting on PC.  Will want to see DF’s breakdown for sure, to see what is left out or dialed back.

 

[stepee]

If it’s only reflections and transparency that’s going to be a hard sell for playing on graphics mode.

[jaethos]

Reflections are by far the most notable effect. The shadows and lighting are smaller, especially since it's only contact shadows.

[Spork3245]

Honestly, unless I have a side-by-side comparison, RT shadows aren’t all that noticeable compared to high-end non-RT solutions. Self-shadowing is certainly more pronounced/apparent, but overall, RT shadows aren’t THAT big of a deal IMO. RT Lighting and RT reflections, though, are VERY noticeable.

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

TLDR;  Performance on PS5 is great.  Runs and looks much better than PS4 Pro.  Graphic fidelity in many cases is below the PC "low" setting -- but it loads 1-2 seconds faster than a high-end PC with a m.2 drive.

[crispy4000]

25 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

TLDR;  Performance on PS5 is great.  Runs and looks much better than PS4 Pro.  Graphic fidelity in many cases is below the PC "low" setting -- but it loads 1-2 seconds faster than a high-end PC with a m.2 drive.

 

I'll add:  The raytracing render load is being checkerboarded, in addition to missing some of the RT features Remedy already mentioned.  Like Watch Dogs Legion, there's a more strict roughness threshold when the effect will work than PC can be set to.

 

All in all, it's compromised, but seems like a decent enough approximation with smart optimizations.  The checkerboarding is probably what's pushing it to 1220p, instead of 1080p or lower.  Hopefully we see other games follow suit.

[stepee]

People on resetera are freaking out because they posted the pc settings but that’s like most console games. The overall package they delivered looks solid for working without dlss. This is one of the demanding next gen showcase games, released in 2019 or not, and it really needs dlss on pc to prop it up to the high res/settings we get.

[AbsolutSurgen]

5 minutes ago, stepee said:

People on resetera are freaking out because they posted the pc settings but that’s like most console games. The overall package they delivered looks solid for working without dlss. This is one of the demanding next gen showcase games, released in 2019 or not, and it really needs dlss on pc to prop it up to the high res/settings we get.

DLSS is a standard feature on all Nvidia RTX cards, and there is no reason to believe anything similar will ever come to the PS5/XSX.  It seems to be representative of what the performance will be on these platforms going forward.

[stepee]

8 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

DLSS is a standard feature on all Nvidia RTX cards, and there is no reason to believe anything similar will ever come to the PS5/XSX.  It seems to be representative of what the performance will be on these platforms going forward.

I mean, yeah. And I’m saying that being aware of that, this port looks pretty good for console gamers.

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, stepee said:

People on resetera are freaking out because they posted the pc settings but that’s like most console games. The overall package they delivered looks solid for working without dlss. This is one of the demanding next gen showcase games, released in 2019 or not, and it really needs dlss on pc to prop it up to the high res/settings we get.

 

 

Definitely not unexpected, especially not for this game.  DF probably should have specified in that image that 1440p is the performance mode target.  A 2060 Super could still mop the floor with that, especially with DLSS on.

It does make me wonder how ambitious RT implementation will get in the short term, if consoles are the main target.

 

 

54 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

DLSS is a standard feature on all Nvidia RTX cards, and there is no reason to believe anything similar will ever come to the PS5/XSX.  It seems to be representative of what the performance will be on these platforms going forward.

 

There is reason to believe it could get better than now, at least.  We still have vague promises of AMD's next upscaling solution.

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

 

 

Definitely not unexpected, especially not for this game.  DF probably should have specified in that image that 1440p is the performance mode target.  A 2060 Super could still mop the floor with that, especially with DLSS on.

It does make me wonder how ambitious RT implementation will get in the short term, if consoles are the main target.

 

 

 

There is reason to believe it could get better than now, at least.  We still have vague promises of AMD's next upscaling solution.

History has shown that they will only get more ambitious as the console generation proceeds -- particularly once mid-generation iterations are released.

IMHO, vague promises from a couple of years ago shouldn't give anyone any confidence of anything.  Particularly when DLSS 2.0 runs on custom hardware that isn't on the consoles GPU.

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

History has shown that they will only get more ambitious as the console generation proceeds -- particularly once mid-generation iterations are released.

IMHO, vague promises from a couple of years ago shouldn't give anyone any confidence of anything.  Particularly when DLSS 2.0 runs on custom hardware that isn't on the consoles GPU.

 

Well yeah, that's a given then.  But I meant in the meanwhile.

Raytracing on consoles doesn't track history all that well.   30fps is the longstanding target for games trying to push overall fidelity and resolution.  RT in a console game like Control, meanwhile, goes all-in on some very specific improvements at the cost of framerate, resolution and other GPU opportunity.

[stepee]

You’ll get some super crazy devs like Insomniac putting out stuff like the Miles RT 60 mode but for the most part this and Watch Dogs Legion are probably more what to look at RT performance wise this gen on consoles.

 

I honestly expect the base consoles to just hand off rt to the mid gen refresh consoles after they come out and as games get more demanding further in.

 

I do wonder if the difference between rt on and off will grow with the base versions looking kinda shoddy just because the developers might spend less time on all the tricks they use to get away with not using rt and focus more time on making rt lighting/reflections/shadows look better.

 

I could see the difference between base and pro versions being greater this time whereas last time it was just a resolution (though much needed) push.

[Xbob42]

Less than 3 months in and we're already fantasizing about a mid gen refresh. 

[crispy4000]

3 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

Less than 3 months in and we're already fantasizing about a mid gen refresh. 

It was always going to be that way without a new upscaling solution.

[stepee]

Yeah, Control is a no for me at 30fps. I only played it on pc so it sorta felt and looked like slow motion, just a hard pass in a game about movement.

 

The ray traced reflections are still nice of course and maybe take a look at them a bit in picture mode, but I can’t imagine making that trade here.

 

Game still looks great in performance mode at 60fps, just the game running that well on a console now is next genny enough to stick with the better playing one.

[HardAct]

   Nice, I'll grab it and put it in the pile! I started it on Xbox1X but couldn't really get into it. Only put about 5 hours in so I hope to get back to it at some point. 

[crispy4000]

 

[crispy4000]

 

- In the framerate unlocked photo mode, Xbox Series X performs about 16% better on average with RT than PS5 in most scenarios.  But in the heaviest RT places (ie: 'corridor of doom') the gain is only 3%.  Both consoles barely clear 30fps there.

- That corridor on consoles (at 1220p) runs roughly where a 2070S does at 1440p native.  That's at equivalent settings, with the notable exception of RT resolution being halved on consoles.

With DLSS though, a vanilla 2060 could still beat the consoles at a reconstructed 1440p, with everything on Ultra and RT effects absent on consoles enabled.

 

- DF theorizes that 1080p60 might be possible on Series X in most scenarios.  Good enough for variable refresh rate at least.  But the CPU could be a limiting factor.

 

- RX 6800XT is performing short of expectations compared to consoles, at least in this game.

 

 

[crispy4000]

DF prediction for the future:

[stepee]

Just for fun I set Control to ps5/x quality settings but did dlss (quality) 1440p (which still looked sharper than ps5 to me) and it was like 150fps. It’s going to be an interesting gen.

[crispy4000]

22 minutes ago, stepee said:

Just for fun I set Control to ps5/x quality settings but did dlss (quality) 1440p (which still looked sharper than ps5 to me) and it was like 150fps. It’s going to be an interesting gen.

 

What GPU?

[stepee]

5 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

What GPU?

 

3080

[stepee]

Also random thought but what is the deal with AF on consoles? Why is it still so low when on pc you just turn on 16x always. because it never seems to change much.

[Xbob42]

8 hours ago, stepee said:

Also random thought but what is the deal with AF on consoles? Why is it still so low when on pc you just turn on 16x always. because it never seems to change much.

No idea. It's damn near free image quality (and very noticeable at that) but it's always at something stupid like 2x or 4x on consoles. 

 

The fuck is the point of 4k and raytracing if your textures turn into a soupy mess at oblique angles??

[Bloodporne]

Finally played Control (PS5) last night and got to check out raytracing. As my first exposure to it, it definitely looks cool but yeah, it's absolutely not worth the performance hit in this game. I didn't read this thread so if it's been said already my bad but I usually rarely care about performance and even I thought it felt crappy in Graphics mode. I started the game that way so it wasn't that I only noticed it as a bump down from 60FPS.

[crispy4000]

Not technically console raytracing, but this still looks kinda neat.

 

 

Like some of the promo material for the game almost.

[stepee]

5 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

Finally played Control (PS5) last night and got to check out raytracing. As my first exposure to it, it definitely looks cool but yeah, it's absolutely not worth the performance hit in this game. I didn't read this thread so if it's been said already my bad but I usually rarely care about performance and even I thought it felt crappy in Graphics mode. I started the game that way so it wasn't that I only noticed it as a bump down from 60FPS.

 

It’s not just you, I didn’t realize until I tried the ps5 version that this game especially should not at all be played at 30fps, it just doesn’t feel good in it. It’s all about quick fluid movement and mixing things up, it’s like running at dmc game at 30fps or something.

[Bloodporne]

27 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

It’s not just you, I didn’t realize until I tried the ps5 version that this game especially should not at all be played at 30fps, it just doesn’t feel good in it. It’s all about quick fluid movement and mixing things up, it’s like running at dmc game at 30fps or something.

I'm usually not picky or touchy about this shit at all but the Graphics option in Control feels like shit. Even just walking around and turning the camera feels crappy. 

[stepee]

3 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

Not technically console raytracing, but this still looks kinda neat.

 

 

Like some of the promo material for the game almost.

 

This sent me down a rabbit hole where I ended up playing Super Mario 3d Land in virtual reality at like 10x resolution on a huge theater screen still in 3D. We are in such a cool place tech wise right now lol.

[Xbob42]

6 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

I'm usually not picky or touchy about this shit at all but the Graphics option in Control feels like shit. Even just walking around and turning the camera feels crappy. 

Now you know why people like me have been "picky" about it for years now. All games feel like shit to me when at 30 FPS.  Even turn-based ones, where it "doesn't matter," just using the menus to choose options feels like it has a delay on it, making it just feel awful. I just cannot stand the feeling of delayed controls. It feels antithetical to good game design, and thus, 30 FPS feels awful by default to me.

[legend]

Real-time ray tracing is still very new. I would not write off vast subjective improvements over the course of this generation just from smarter software and proper application.

 

Those improvements will also make the PC versions with better dedicated hardware even better too, but I think there is still a good chance the console can go quite a bit further.

[stepee]

18 hours ago, stepee said:

 

This sent me down a rabbit hole where I ended up playing Super Mario 3d Land in virtual reality at like 10x resolution on a huge theater screen still in 3D. We are in such a cool place tech wise right now lol.

 

I ended up then playing dolphin in vr, which is actually full vr, I played Wind Waker and it looks surprisingly great! Honestly if Nintendo had the tech they could just polish it up especially the gui and release that shit. Seeing the characters “in person” is pretty crazy and it’s a testament to its timeless art style that you can put your face right in front of theirs and it still looks good.

 

I did have to add some fov reduction when moving motion sickness protection and overall I’ll wait until OpenXR gets put into dolphin official to really do more but some cool potential here.  

[stepee]

On 2/8/2021 at 3:01 PM, stepee said:

 

This sent me down a rabbit hole where I ended up playing Super Mario 3d Land in virtual reality at like 10x resolution on a huge theater screen still in 3D. We are in such a cool place tech wise right now lol.

 

Super Mario 64 RT released on github in an early technical preview state:

 

DarioSamo/sm64rt

GITHUB.COM

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Fork of https://github.com/sm64pc/sm64ex with raytracing support. - DarioSamo/sm64rt

 

its buggy but cool, will be an amazing way to play in like 2 years