General Gaming Raytracing console performance thread - DF Looks at RE2/RE3 raytracing 'upgrade'

[Duderino]

Sounds like the WatchDog’s video is in the 1440p range.

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, Duderino said:

Sounds like the WatchDog’s video is in the 1440p range.

 

Ubisoft marketing strikes again!

On the positive, I am still impressed.  1440p+ 30fps with that much RT going on would still be something to celebrate on consoles.  Even if upscaled to.  I could see that being a benchmark for the most graphically intensive games this gen.  It definitely fits the numbers we're seeing thus far.

[Keyser_Soze]

@TomCat Go look at the video I posted in the Demon's Souls thread. Toward the end of the video the guy talks about the Digital Deluxe version and how the three items from the deluxe version can't be found anywhere else in the game. (for $90)

[crispy4000]

Chinese forum with more pixel counting for Watch Dogs Legion on Series X:

 

【图片】数了一下看门狗的分辨率，动态4k【xbox爱好者吧】_百度贴吧

TIEBA.BAIDU.COM

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数了一下看门狗的分辨..7/10，约1512p~1512p~4k~4k~4k~1440p分辨率降得厉害的基本上都是雨夜我们跟索狗最大的区别就是用事实说话，而不是听风就是雨反手再来一波造谣

Day shots they took are approximately 4k.  Night sections are ~ 1440p-1512p.

[Duderino]

16 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Ubisoft marketing strikes again!

On the positive, I am still impressed.  1440p+ 30fps with that much RT going on would still be something to celebrate on consoles.  Even if upscaled to.  I could see that being a benchmark for the most graphically intensive games this gen.  It definitely fits the numbers we're seeing thus far.

Same.  Now what will really be interesting to see is how this stacks up against Spiderman MM in terms of the final render resolution and raytracing fidelity.

If the PC space is anything to go by, the implementation from game to game is probably going to be a large factor.

[crispy4000]

Seeing just how hard WD is hit at night makes me think comparisons to other games will be difficult.  It's still only doing RT reflections, right?

It'll be hard to judge one game with lots of shiny surfaces vs another.  What do you go by?  I guess by how far they overshoot, with resolution/framerate dips.

 

[Duderino]

I imagine it will be similar to PC raytracing comparisons right now.  Within most games there will be variable quality and performance depending on scene rendering complexity, but implementation and optimization leaders will still emerge.

 

Going to require a deeper look beyond just FPS and resolution, which IMO is a great thing.

[crispy4000]

Pay respects to the OG.

 

(yes, it's a different technique, but decades ahead of its time)
 

[Brian]

On 10/31/2020 at 12:23 AM, Keyser_Soze said:

@TomCat Go look at the video I posted in the Demon's Souls thread. Toward the end of the video the guy talks about the Digital Deluxe version and how the three items from the deluxe version can't be found anywhere else in the game. (for $90)

Really? The Demon Souls Deluxe edition items aren’t found in the game? Wow

[crispy4000]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[crispy4000]

RE Village supports raytracing at dynamic 4k.

 

Quote

PS5 features:

• Stunning visuals: Explore Resident Evil Village's beautiful yet terrifying vistas and locales in 4K with Ray Tracing.
• Fast loading: Instantly pick up right where you left off with almost no load times, thanks to the power of the PS5 console's ultra-high speed SSD.
• Adaptive triggers: Feel the weight and pull of weapon triggers for an even more immersive experience.
• Haptic feedback: Simulate the feeling of firing a real gun with haptic feedback.
• Tempest 3D AudioTech on compatible headphones: Surround yourself with the carefully crafted music and sounds of survival horror in Resident Evil Village. 3D Audio enhances the experience by making you feel the hair-raising sounds coming from every direction.

 

Resident Evil Village

WWW.PLAYSTATION.COM

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Explore Horror game Resident Evil Village - PS5 Games | PlayStation for PS5 console from the official PlayStation website.Check out Resident Evil Village - PS5 Games | PlayStation features, news, videos, screen shots, and buy the game now from PlayStation Store.

 

[XxEvil AshxX]

I'm assuming Capcom will utilize the MS equivalent on the XSX. Windows Sonic works pretty well for spatial sound, even on headphones that don't necessarily support it. 

[crispy4000]

Quote

From what we can see, Xbox Series X runs the Medium Ray Tracing effects of the PC version. The Ray Tracing reflections in the Xbox Series X version are more blurry than the ones for the PC. Not only that, but the Xbox Series X is missing numerous reflections.
 

At 0:45 you can clearly see that the metallic road sign is not reflecting its surroundings on the Xbox Series X. However, that very same sign reflects its surroundings on the PC version. Similarly, the metallic statue in the middle of the road (at 2:29) does not reflect its surroundings on the Xbox Series X version.
 

In case you’re wondering, these metallic surfaces behave similarly on the PC when using Ray Tracing Medium. Similarly to the Xbox Series X version, similar surfaces on the PC do not reflect their surroundings (when using Ray Tracing Medium). Additionally, the reflections are more blurry when using Ray Tracing Medium.
 

As such, we can safely say that the Xbox Series X version uses the Medium PC settings for Ray Tracing. Moreover, the game appears to be using dynamic 4K (instead of native 4K)!

 

http://www.dsogaming.com//favicon-16x16.png Watch Dogs Legion - Xbox Series X vs RTX 3080 Ray Tracing Video Comparison

WWW.DSOGAMING.COM

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Here is a Ray Tracing comparison video between the Xbox Series X and the PC version (RTX 3080) of Watch Dogs Legion.

If this is correct, it puts Series X more in line with a 2060 Super / 2070, sans DLSS.  With Digital Foundry's optimized (console-like?) settings and Medium RT, a 2060 Super is solidly above 30fps in night scenes at 1440p.
 

Overall, I think Watch Dogs Legion looks great in what we've seen of Series X.  You really don't need ultra RT to get the intended effect.  That bodes great for consoles for now in the cross gen, even better for the future with eventual next-gen upscaling, while still painting a realistic picture of the challenges.

As opposed to...

 

On 2/25/2020 at 8:21 PM, TomCat said:

the gpu in the X is based on this tech. MS helped AMD dev their tech. It will perform better then raytracing on the 2080.

 

Best case scenario could be somewhere between a 2070 and 2080 with native resolutions.  Worst case scenario ... it's hard to say, but we'd get a clue if Watch Dogs Legion on XSX was found to use the same upscaling algorithm as X1X.

[crispy4000]

Series S update: Watch Dogs Legion runs at dynamic 1080p, presumably with RT on.  The big unknown there is how low night scenes will go.

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

 

http://www.dsogaming.com//favicon-16x16.png Watch Dogs Legion - Xbox Series X vs RTX 3080 Ray Tracing Video Comparison

WWW.DSOGAMING.COM

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Here is a Ray Tracing comparison video between the Xbox Series X and the PC version (RTX 3080) of Watch Dogs Legion.

If this is correct, it puts Series X more in line with a 2060 Super / 2070, sans DLSS.  With Digital Foundry's optimized (console-like?) settings and Medium RT, a 2060 Super is solidly above 30fps in night scenes at 1440p.
 

Overall, I think Watch Dogs Legion looks great in what we've seen of Series X.  You really don't need ultra RT to get the intended effect.  That bodes great for consoles for now in the cross gen, even better for the future with eventual next-gen upscaling, while still painting a realistic picture of the challenges.

As opposed to...

 

 

Best case scenario could be somewhere between a 2070 and 2080 with native resolutions.  Worst case scenario ... it's hard to say, but we'd get a clue if Watch Dogs Legion on XSX was found to use the same upscaling algorithm as X1X.

I'm not sure why it matter if DLSS is disengaged on an RTX card.  End users care about the overall graphics, not which settings are turned on.

I've seen benchmarks with a 2060 Super hitting 30 fps with RT @ Ultra using DLSS.  This would, in theory, have a RTX-2060 Super giving a better graphics/framerate experience than SeX in WDL.

[Duderino]

I'm easily more curious about XSS raytracing performance than where the XSX lands relative to PC cards.  

 

Over the next 6+ years I suspect Raytracing will become more integral to next-gen lighting and even game design (mirror puzzles).  Fingers crossed that RT scales reasonably enough to XSS.

[Keyser_Soze]

4 minutes ago, Duderino said:

I'm easily more curious about XSS raytracing performance than where the XSX lands relative to PC cards.  

 

Over the next 6+ years I suspect Raytracing will become more integral to next-gen lighting and even game design (mirror puzzles).  Fingers crossed that RT scales reasonably enough to XSS.

 

It will probably handle it well as the console is limited to lower resolutions and raytracing works better at lower resolutions anyway.

[Duderino]

1 minute ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

It will probably handle it well as the console is limited to lower resolutions and raytracing works better at lower resolutions anyway.

It does, however RT can still be quite a drain on resources even at lower resolutions.

 

Given RT support on the XSS has not been the norm, I'm inclined to believe scalability is a complicated matter for devs at the moment.

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I'm not sure why it matter if DLSS is disengaged on an RTX card.  End users care about the overall graphics, not which settings are turned on.

I've seen benchmarks with a 2060 Super hitting 30 fps with RT @ Ultra using DLSS.  This would, in theory, have a RTX-2060 Super giving a better graphics/framerate experience than SeX in WDL.

Absolutely.  Why I'd say it matters is the future potential.  If Series X is trading blows with a 2060 Super or 2070 in native res with RT, there's real potential for AMD's upscaling solution to have a significant impact on next-gen game development.  It's what everyone should want.

 

But if Watch Dogs Legion on XSX already employs the same reconstruction methods as the X1X to get there, we shouldn't expect nearly as large of a gain in the future. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

Absolutely.  Why I'd say it matters is the future potential.  If Series X is trading blows with a 2060 Super or 2070 in native res with RT, there's real potential for AMD's upscaling solution to have a significant impact on next-gen game development.  It's what everyone should want.

 

But if Watch Dogs Legion on XSX already employs the same reconstruction methods as the X1X to get there, we shouldn't expect nearly as large of a gain in the future. 

Not necessarily, DLSS is using Tensor cores -- so it is almost free.  RDNA2 doesn't have unused cores just sitting around, they will have to divert their existing cores from doing other rendering duties for whatever future solution (if any) they come up with.

[Xbob42]

Also, it cannot be overstated how far ahead of the game nvidia is on AI, so I can't imagine a solution from AMD or Microsoft to be nearly as efficient or as visually comparable. It's possible, but I'm having doubts. Especially since it's not already prepared.

[crispy4000]

4 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Not necessarily, DLSS is using Tensor cores -- so it is almost free.  RDNA2 doesn't have unused cores just sitting around, they will have to divert their existing cores from doing other rendering duties for whatever future solution (if any) they come up with.

That’s very true, but I think we should expect better from AMD’s new upscaling solution than what console developers resort to now.  It’s more of a question of how much better, given the hardware and what the algorithm can do.

[crispy4000]

Holds native 4K 30fps with raytraced reflections.  DF didn't find any evidence of any other RT effects, and RT reflections are entirely absent in the 4k60 mode.

[crispy4000]

 

 

[crispy4000]

 

 

Sounds like Spider-Man gets the RT edge on consoles for now.

 

 

 

[Keyser_Soze]

41 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

 

 

Why did he take a picture off the TV rather than capturing it properly?

[crispy4000]

Who knows, maybe some kind of embargo.

[Xbob42]

Haven't been keeping up, does Spider-Man do many reflections outside the windows of skyscrapers? The cool thing about RT in Watch Dogs is the huge variety of reflections, not just the mirror-like ones found on buildings.

[stepee]

3 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

Haven't been keeping up, does Spider-Man do many reflections outside the windows of skyscrapers? The cool thing about RT in Watch Dogs is the huge variety of reflections, not just the mirror-like ones found on buildings.

 

Dark is saying it’s applied to more surfaces than WDL (on console)..but that could just mean it has more windows. So not a power limitation, but yeah it is the different kinds of things that reflect that is so cool in Watch Dogs. We are using ultra tho.

[Duderino]

Just now, Xbob42 said:

Haven't been keeping up, does Spider-Man do many reflections outside the windows of skyscrapers? The cool thing about RT in Watch Dogs is the huge variety of reflections, not just the mirror-like ones found on buildings.

Yes, and it sacrifices much less in the process.  One major difference is Spider-Man doesn’t fallback to cube maps past a certain distance.  Distant objects and their cast shadows are present in reflections.

 

It’s pretty remarkable that an open world game, let alone on a console, is achieving this with such minimal compromises.  Think it will easily be one of the top Raytracing showcases this year.

[Xbob42]

Just now, Duderino said:

Yes, and it sacrifices much less in the process.  One major difference is Spider-Man doesn’t fallback to cube maps past a certain distance.  Distant objects and their cast shadows are present in reflections.

 

It’s pretty remarkable that an open world game, let alone on a console, is achieving this with such minimal compromises.  Think it will easily be one of the top Raytracing showcases this year.

Yes what? Yes it does reflections on more than just windows? Gimme some examples!

Although based on what I remember playing on Spider-Man it definitely seemed like... I dunno how to phrase it, like a more narrow open-world game? Like there wasn't actually as much going on in the world that you could interact with. You could definitely get around, but I don't remember being able to just cause as much general fuckery, which is the kind of shit I imagine makes Watch Dogs run like ass, outside of general Ubisoft incompetence.

Also seeing some Spider-Man reflections in screenshots I was disappointed at how low-res they were. Not a big deal if you're swinging by super fast, but then you're not really caring about them to begin with, at which point just gimme the 60 FPS.

(I do consider "half the framerate" to be a pretty big sacrifice.)

[crispy4000]

43 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

Yes what? Yes it does reflections on more than just windows? Gimme some examples!

Although based on what I remember playing on Spider-Man it definitely seemed like... I dunno how to phrase it, like a more narrow open-world game? Like there wasn't actually as much going on in the world that you could interact with. You could definitely get around, but I don't remember being able to just cause as much general fuckery, which is the kind of shit I imagine makes Watch Dogs run like ass, outside of general Ubisoft incompetence.

Also seeing some Spider-Man reflections in screenshots I was disappointed at how low-res they were. Not a big deal if you're swinging by super fast, but then you're not really caring about them to begin with, at which point just gimme the 60 FPS.

(I do consider "half the framerate" to be a pretty big sacrifice.)

 

Console raytracing will likely be low-res on the consoles any way you slice it.  In totality, or with the reliance on cube maps when it breaks.  No one was expecting consoles to do it at 60fps either.

 

I'm not sure what interactivity has to do with raytracing, unless we're taking pedestrians (or the like) being rendered in window panes, and at what distance before they're a no show. That's the impressive thing about what Spider-Man is doing, from what DF said.

[Xbob42]

Just now, crispy4000 said:

 

Console raytracing will likely be low-res on the consoles any way you slice it.  In totality, or with the reliance on cube maps.  No one was expecting consoles to do it at 60fps either.

 

I'm not sure what interactivity has to do with raytracing, unless we're taking thinks like pedestrians and such still being rendered in window panes, and at what distance before they're a no show.  That's the impressive thing about what Spider-Man is doing, from what DF said.

The thing about interactivity is that I believe all those systems and simulations take a toll on performance. Being able to fight anyone (instead of give a thumbs up) or hijack any car (with the car being destructible and having reflections that are also influenced by the damage) or quickly switch perspectives to things like drones, I imagine at least, adds up. Not for RT specifically, but with RT already being so heavy, I figure any little performance hits add up. Again, on top of Ubisoft just sucking shit at optimization.

[crispy4000]

24 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

The thing about interactivity is that I believe all those systems and simulations take a toll on performance. Being able to fight anyone (instead of give a thumbs up) or hijack any car (with the car being destructible and having reflections that are also influenced by the damage) or quickly switch perspectives to things like drones, I imagine at least, adds up. Not for RT specifically, but with RT already being so heavy, I figure any little performance hits add up. Again, on top of Ubisoft just sucking shit at optimization.

Depends.  Some of that would be more CPU dependent than GPU dependent.
 

I think most console games would also be okay with temporary frame dips for super intensive RT sections.  Just going by history.

[chakoo]

43 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

Yes what? Yes it does reflections on more than just windows? Gimme some examples!

Seriously you're best bet is to what the Digital Foundry Review of Spiderman. They do a really detailed breakdown of the game on PS5.