Microsoft Forza Motorsport - Information Thread, update: Digital Foundry PC version technical review

[Ominous]

DLAA looks way better than any of the DLSS / no DLSS settings. Without it there is a ton of shimmer on fences and power lines. 

[Keyser_Soze]

7 hours ago, Biggie said:

What view do y’all use? With Gran Turismo I liked the bumper view but with this i think I enjoy inside the cockpit view. 

 

I use cockpit because driving IRL broke me. I could do chase cam back in the day but once I started driving driving real cars using any other view was hard for me.

[Keyser_Soze]

1 hour ago, Biggie said:

Shit I don’t know. lol.  It was the first Forza I downloaded off of GamePass. I think it was Forza Horizon 5 ya. 

 

Forza Horizon is the arcade style game (like Test Drive) and Forza Motorsport is their sim game (like Gran Turismo)

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Every time I run a benchmark my FPS minimum gets lower and lower. I’m not making any changes to settings, just restarting it. Achieved, average, and maximum have stayed the same. And while my first run the summary shows my minimum to be 61fps, it’s now 36.8. GPU limited percentage shows to be 21.0  

[SoberChef]

HOLY EFFING JESUS ... I AM IN LOVE!

 

I spent a bulk majority of my late morning into early evening going through 3 race series. Initially went with the Scooby WRX sedan for the initial part, then the Scooby Hatch for the next series, and then finally the Lotus Evora for the 3rd. It's the 3rd that really hooked me. I have had all iterations of this series since FM3 and this game flat out just feels different but in all of the amazing ways it should. I have had the Evora before and had one hell of a suite set up for it, it's to that build in my mind that I would attempt to tune this ride.

 

I tried to explain it to my wife as she sat there guffawed at how freaking pretty this game is at any time of day, in any weather, that the way the game pushes & evolves you as a driver, as you build up certain specs, figuring out HOW the tuning you did directly affects varying aspects of the ride, but then allowing yourself to give in to what the car wants to do & acquiescing to it's will around the tracks. Every single new race feels like its almost a wholly different ride as you get familiar with it. The responsiveness in steering while also feeling the grip of the tires as they ride that line of grip v. slip is insanity.

 

Then there's the segments of each track where you're timed within each lap & subconsciously it really hones you into wanting to DO BETTER! Even just doing practice laps (much of the time I would go multiple laps beyond what was necessary just to ensure I felt the car as well as I could & was as comfortable as I felt I was going into the actual races) I would be sweating and yelling "GET IT GET IT! HOLD THAT PITCH! JUST A BIT TIGHTER!" as I careened around the final sloping turn at Maple and hit a new record lap time. IT WASN'T EVEN THE ACTUAL RACE!

 

I am telling you all what, if you ever have played this series, please give this new one a shot as it's pure driving excellence perfected!

 

P.S. I was way off on the whole car leveling aspect, I actually enjoy it because it gives you reason to persevere and push forward with this main ride in order to get all the upgrades and see all the builds you can bang out.

[SoberChef]

@BiggieI typically rock cockpit, but there was a freaking monsoon on one track and I moved it to front bumper .... oooofta that water tessellation is FAHQING SEXY!

[SoberChef]

I need to shut up but I have to say this one last thing. The sound design in a full Dolby Atmos living room, yeah that's definitely what's up!!

[Keyser_Soze]

Even not in surround sound the directional sounds is pretty amazing.

[Biggie]

Don’t get me wrong. Forza Motorsport is a very good and polished sim. It’s just that I’m a huge Gran Turismo fan boy and when I want to play a racing sim I’d rather play that. I play Forza for the arcade and variety. Guess for now I’ll play Horizon 5 along with Motorsport. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

Forza Motorsport is a great racing game, it's not a sim.  Assetto Corsa and iRacing are sims.

 

That's not a criticism of FM, I actually prefer FM to real sims.  And while, I prefer Forza Horizon even more, FM scratches a very different itch for me.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

I’m sure nobody is going to be surprised by my take, but Forza is an awful game. The driving is sublime. I’ve always loved the driving in Forza games. I wish the rumble wasn’t so muted. It’s both maxed in game and on my controller in the Xbox Accessories app and it feels like it’s barely there. As a driving experience though it feels great. It looks great. 
 

BUT there’s almost no game here. Turn 10 throws you into a 1 lap event with all the assists dialed up. Not the first time. But STOP. The number of race events is a joke. It’s like they got near the end and went “oh shit, a career mode too. Uhh…”. If you’re trying to level up a certain car, the career mode is not gonna be that place to do it. If there’s even more than 1 event you can use that car in. It feels like the least effort they’ve put in to a career mode yet. The car list is lacking as is the track list. 
 

Im only just getting into the grove of sim style racing games for the first time in many years, but the AI difficulty doesn’t seem well balanced. For me the difference between AI on level 3 and AI on lvl 4 is about 2 seconds a lap. In free play can get first by the end of lap 2 against level 3 AI, but in a 5 lap race I’m matching lap times with the top 9 or so cars. It feels like there should be something in between. I also think there’s something weird at the start of races. I’ll get a good jump off the line, but then find cars behind me passing me going into the first corner. Within another corner or two and the cars around me just drop off, never to see that kind of performance again. Even though I can’t come close to winning most races against tier 4, the AI is overall more fun to drive against than on tier 3. For better or worse they are more dynamic.

 

The penalty system feels so very hit and miss. I pass a car, but dip my tyres off the track and catch a +0.20 time penalty. I straight cut a corner in a fight for the lead and take first and the game decides no penalty. ?? To get a penalty for collision you have to really hit a car. Like not just a tap that causes them to miss their breaking point or even go off track. You basically need to hit them so hard they get turned around. This is with the “full” penalty system enabled. I don’t know if the system makes any more sense in online games as I don’t like online racing. I don’t feel it hurts the final product, but it feels odd they went for it and it’s now where close to real life. It’s only going to hit the most egregious, but not so much you can’t still drive like a cheap asshole without punishment.  
 

Im not sure who this game is for. It’s not going to be sim enough for anyone that really loves racing sims. They’re either already playing GT7 or more than likely playing on the PC. There’s so little actual game here that people who love the Horizon games for their career modes won’t find a new home in Forza Motorsport. I’d say it feels like I was made for the FM faithful that only ever own Xbox consoles and play online all the time, but they hate the new car progression and upgrade system as it slows them them down. 
 

which slowing down player progression for engagement really sounds like this game is gonna end up going full blown live service sooner than later, complete with “seasons” and premium passes.

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

I’m sure nobody is going to be surprised by my take, but Forza is an awful game. The driving is sublime. I’ve always loved the driving in Forza games. I wish the rumble wasn’t so muted. It’s both maxed in game and on my controller in the Xbox Accessories app and it feels like it’s barely there. As a driving experience though it feels great. It looks great. 

I agree, the driving experience is what I have been enjoying about the game.

 

 

1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

BUT there’s almost no game here. Turn 10 throws you into a 1 lap event with all the assists dialed up. Not the first time. But STOP. The number of race events is a joke. It’s like they got near the end and went “oh shit, a career mode too. Uhh…”. If you’re trying to level up a certain car, the career mode is not gonna be that place to do it. If there’s even more than 1 event you can use that car in. It feels like the least effort they’ve put in to a career mode yet. The car list is lacking as is the track list. 

I agree with most of what you say here.  However, I think the single player is meant to prepare you for the multiplayer.

1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Im only just getting into the grove of sim style racing games for the first time in many years, but the AI difficulty doesn’t seem well balanced. For me the difference between AI on level 3 and AI on lvl 4 is about 2 seconds a lap. In free play can get first by the end of lap 2 against level 3 AI, but in a 5 lap race I’m matching lap times with the top 9 or so cars. It feels like there should be something in between. I also think there’s something weird at the start of races. I’ll get a good jump off the line, but then find cars behind me passing me going into the first corner. Within another corner or two and the cars around me just drop off, never to see that kind of performance again. Even though I can’t come close to winning most races against tier 4, the AI is overall more fun to drive against than on tier 3. For better or worse they are more dynamic.

I'm not really a sim player (the last 2 racing games  I put much time in were the last 2 Forza Horizon games).

I just stepped up to AI level 5, and am considering going to 6. (I just started the Miata cup, and passed everyone during the 3rd lap of the first race).

If you have traction control on, and are not using manual shifting you may find it harder to out-accelerate your opponents.  As well, if you are braking to early (or hard) you may find your opponents passing you in corners.  I'm usually trying to keep the braking line yellow through the apex.

As well, the car you pick has a huge impact -- I chose the Mustang in the first cup, and it's just not competitive.

1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

I’m sure nobody is going to be surprised by my take, but Forza is an awful game. The driving is sublime. I’ve always loved the driving in Forza games. I wish the rumble wasn’t so muted. It’s both maxed in game and on my controller in the Xbox Accessories app and it feels like it’s barely there. As a driving experience though it feels great. It looks great. 
 

The penalty system feels so very hit and miss. I pass a car, but dip my tyres off the track and catch a +0.20 time penalty. I straight cut a corner in a fight for the lead and take first and the game decides no penalty. ?? To get a penalty for collision you have to really hit a car. Like not just a tap that causes them to miss their breaking point or even go off track. You basically need to hit them so hard they get turned around. This is with the “full” penalty system enabled. I don’t know if the system makes any more sense in online games as I don’t like online racing. I don’t feel it hurts the final product, but it feels odd they went for it and it’s now where close to real life. It’s only going to hit the most egregious, but not so much you can’t still drive like a cheap asshole without punishment.  

I'm starting to get a handle on the penalty system -- track limits are defined by a hard line that you need to keep 2 tires within.  You can turn on indicators to see it.  There is a TON of time you can make up on course with chicanes by aggressively hitting the apex.

Time penalties for collisions seems to be based on whether you are actively trying to avoid the other cars.  I find that if I'm braking hard at the moment of collision, or I'm not driving into the side of a car while I pass them, I'm rarely penalized.

1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Im not sure who this game is for. It’s not going to be sim enough for anyone that really loves racing sims. They’re either already playing GT7 or more than likely playing on the PC. There’s so little actual game here that people who love the Horizon games for their career modes won’t find a new home in Forza Motorsport. I’d say it feels like I was made for the FM faithful that only ever own Xbox consoles and play online all the time, but they hate the new car progression and upgrade system as it slows them them down. 
 

which slowing down player progression for engagement really sounds like this game is gonna end up going full blown live service sooner than later, complete with “seasons” and premium passes.

I think its for a "casual racing enthusiast".  I love track racing, but have no interest in buying a sim rig to play iRacing.  (Actually, that's a lie, I do, I just can't justify spending $1,500 on one.) I think I agree with a lot of your criticisms, the game isn't as good as I wanted, but I am still having lots of fun.

 

13 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Every time I run a benchmark my FPS minimum gets lower and lower. I’m not making any changes to settings, just restarting it. Achieved, average, and maximum have stayed the same. And while my first run the summary shows my minimum to be 61fps, it’s now 36.8. GPU limited percentage shows to be 21.0  

I haven't run a benchmark yet, but I'm mostly getting ~80 fps (3440x1440p with a RTX-4080).

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

36 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

 

yeah those dead zones are brutal. I remove them entirely for steering, throttle, and breaking. It’s one of those things that people new to this time of game may not even realize they “need” to do, but it makes a huge difference in how much control you feel you have. I could try normal steering since I’m using a game pad, but simulation steering doesn’t feel un-wieldy. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

42 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I'm starting to get a handle on the penalty system -- track limits are defined by a hard line that you need to keep 2 tires within.  You can turn on indicators to see it.  There is a TON of time you can make up on course with chicanes by aggressively hitting the apex.

I get what the track limits are. The implementation of a penalty doesn’t seem to make sense. I had passed a car and dipped off the track and it did its whole “off track” calculation and determined I got a penalty. I got no advantage from going off track. Then later I made a pass for the lead by accidentally cutting a corner way too hard. The game did its calculation for off track and … no penalty. whether or not it was an accident is immaterial. In one I gained a clear advantage and got away with it. 

[Keyser_Soze]

Angel Hernandez assesses the track penalties. Just be happy it went in your favor.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

… is there even Nvidia drivers for Forza? I saw a game ready drivers update, but it didn’t list Forza specifically. 
 

nvm it does list Forza. It’s just in really teeny tiny small print, while COD and Alan Wake 2 are massive everywhere. lol

[cusideabelincoln]

10 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

I’m sure nobody is going to be surprised by my take, but Forza is an awful game. The driving is sublime. I’ve always loved the driving in Forza games. I wish the rumble wasn’t so muted. It’s both maxed in game and on my controller in the Xbox Accessories app and it feels like it’s barely there. As a driving experience though it feels great. It looks great. 
 

BUT there’s almost no game here. Turn 10 throws you into a 1 lap event with all the assists dialed up. Not the first time. But STOP. The number of race events is a joke. It’s like they got near the end and went “oh shit, a career mode too. Uhh…”. If you’re trying to level up a certain car, the career mode is not gonna be that place to do it. If there’s even more than 1 event you can use that car in. It feels like the least effort they’ve put in to a career mode yet. The car list is lacking as is the track list. 
 

Im only just getting into the grove of sim style racing games for the first time in many years, but the AI difficulty doesn’t seem well balanced. For me the difference between AI on level 3 and AI on lvl 4 is about 2 seconds a lap. In free play can get first by the end of lap 2 against level 3 AI, but in a 5 lap race I’m matching lap times with the top 9 or so cars. It feels like there should be something in between. I also think there’s something weird at the start of races. I’ll get a good jump off the line, but then find cars behind me passing me going into the first corner. Within another corner or two and the cars around me just drop off, never to see that kind of performance again. Even though I can’t come close to winning most races against tier 4, the AI is overall more fun to drive against than on tier 3. For better or worse they are more dynamic.

 

The penalty system feels so very hit and miss. I pass a car, but dip my tyres off the track and catch a +0.20 time penalty. I straight cut a corner in a fight for the lead and take first and the game decides no penalty. ?? To get a penalty for collision you have to really hit a car. Like not just a tap that causes them to miss their breaking point or even go off track. You basically need to hit them so hard they get turned around. This is with the “full” penalty system enabled. I don’t know if the system makes any more sense in online games as I don’t like online racing. I don’t feel it hurts the final product, but it feels odd they went for it and it’s now where close to real life. It’s only going to hit the most egregious, but not so much you can’t still drive like a cheap asshole without punishment.  
 

Im not sure who this game is for. It’s not going to be sim enough for anyone that really loves racing sims. They’re either already playing GT7 or more than likely playing on the PC. There’s so little actual game here that people who love the Horizon games for their career modes won’t find a new home in Forza Motorsport. I’d say it feels like I was made for the FM faithful that only ever own Xbox consoles and play online all the time, but they hate the new car progression and upgrade system as it slows them them down. 
 

which slowing down player progression for engagement really sounds like this game is gonna end up going full blown live service sooner than later, complete with “seasons” and premium passes.

 

I like how simple and quick it is to tune your car and jump into a race. That's all I need. I haven't played a GT game since the PS2 era so I'm not sure what they've changed since then, but Forza scratches the itch. While I enjoyed Horizon, they didn't make it simple to just warp to the events.

 

What I did expect a little more from Motorsport was in the car upgrades. It's exactly the same as Horizon.

[Biggie]

Played some more tonight and ngl it’s starting to grow on me. Shit is nice. 

[Best]

9 hours ago, Biggie said:

Played some more tonight and ngl it’s starting to grow on me. Shit is nice. 

 

I totally forgot to dl this yesterday. I look forward to trying it out today. Graphics better than GT7?

[Biggie]

13 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

I totally forgot to dl this yesterday. I look forward to trying it out today. Graphics better than GT7?

No

[Spork3245]

41 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

I totally forgot to dl this yesterday. I look forward to trying it out today. Graphics better than GT7?

 

 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

You know, for all their talk about how they wanted us to feel more connecting with our cars to justify the new car leveling and upgrade system, they sure do force you to pick a new car, like right away. Like, me and my Civic Type R have started to feel in tune, but 3 races later it no longer counts as a hatchback and I have to pick a different car. I can’t even just jump right into the B class cup to keep racing with my car. 
 

it seems controlled rumble is tied to ASC and TC. I had them on sport to help ease into the physics and when I turned them off completely the rumble felt like it got turned up quite a bit. 
 

Kyalami feels like a poor man’s Suzuka. I wondered if it’s the same track designer. So many of the corners felt the same to point I had no issues learning this track. On my first lap I felt like I had been driving on this track for over 2 decades. It feels like the abridged version of Suzuka. Apparently the track was completely rebuilt and redesigned in 1988, and the design has been tweaked and evolved up to 2015, where this is the 4th iteration of this specific design of the track. I can’t find a mention of direct inspiration and it’s definitely not the same designer as Suzuka, but by this point Suzuka would have been a world famous and racing enthusiast favorite track for decades by the time Kyalami’s current design even began taking shape. 
 

31 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

I totally forgot to dl this yesterday. I look forward to trying it out today. Graphics better than GT7?

 

18 minutes ago, Biggie said:

No

IGN did a comparison video. GT7 looks brighter and shinier during the day, even though GT7 doesn’t do ray tracing during races, while FM does/can. It also looks like GT7 adds a lot of shadows during the day, probably to make the track visuals more dynamic and interesting. It seems like dusk, sunrise, and night are where Forza shines visually over GT7. Apparently a weird quirk GT7 has on Suzuka at night is there are no lights, while track lights are lit in Forza. I’ve seen some in the comments section say Suzuka at night in GT7 looks like you broke into the track at 3am during an  apocalypse. Both it seems still don’t do rain effects as well as Drive Club. The overall conclusion seems to be it could come down to preference and each having strengths over the other in different areas. That is … if you limit the conversation to console only. 
 

come on Best. Get that 7800X3D + RTX 4090 gaming PC you deserve. 

[Best]

1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Come on Best. Get that 7800X3D + RTX 4090 gaming PC you deserve. 

 

Next-gen I'm going back to PC gaming. So roughly 5-6 years from now. 

[Spork3245]

5 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

Next-gen I'm going back to PC gaming. So roughly 5-6 years from now. 

 

Next gen def isn't more than 3-4 years away  

[Best]

10 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

 

Next gen def isn't more than 3-4 years away  

 

I'm thinking 2028 for the new consoles because of covid. 

[Spork3245]

11 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

I'm thinking 2028 for the new consoles because of covid. 

 

[nublood]

Hasn't clicked with me yet. And for the love of god, PLEASE stop with the unskippable narrating everything in the menu. I know how upgrades work!!

[stepee]

Yeah the narrating is a bit much at the start. It’s a great looking game but even at its best it never looks as realistic as GT7. It’s solid and I’ll leave it installed to pick up and play now and then especially when they patch in frame gen or however they plan to fix performance on pc and it’s solid 120fps. But for this type of sim I’ve already settled on GT7 and psvr2 means there is simply no contest. 

[Keyser_Soze]

Well done

 

[stepee]

lol

[Biggie]

4 hours ago, stepee said:

Yeah the narrating is a bit much at the start. It’s a great looking game but even at its best it never looks as realistic as GT7. It’s solid and I’ll leave it installed to pick up and play now and then especially when they patch in frame gen or however they plan to fix performance on pc and it’s solid 120fps. But for this type of sim I’ve already settled on GT7 and psvr2 means there is simply no contest. 

I agree. It doesn’t look as good at GT7. That being said, it does do the cockpit view driving much better and the rain physics with the windshield wipers on is fantastic. I’ve turned off all driving assists and damn if it isn’t a fun game to drive in. I’m much impressed because I’m a GT fan boy but this is damn good also. 

[Best]

Mine is still downloading.  😌 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

You know something I miss about FM and even more so GT of the late 90s was how many more average, every day cars there were. You own a regular civic, it’s in the game. You own a Jetta, it’s in the game. You could damn near role play you with your car becoming a racing big shot. 
 

you kind of can, depending on what you own, but it’s far more limited and selective that it used to be. At least on the FM side. Like there’s not even a Mazda Speed 3 or a del Sol Si. Not exactly cars I’ve owned, but close enough. 
 

there are some, to me, surprising omissions, and some even more surprising inclusions. They have new Toyota Supra, but from the wrong year. They chose a year the Supra didn’t even come in a manual?? No Lotus Elise? The cover car of Forza 7, the 2015 Ford GT isn’t in the game. No Ferrari F430. Only 1 Alpha Romeo and it’s the Giulietta? 
 

Im not too big on classics and muscle cars from the 80s and older. So a big chunk of Forza’s car list is just meh to me already. Any cup that makes me drive them is one I cannot wait to be over fast enough or I avoid it entirely. Avoiding it being something I’m not sure I can do in this game. They say FM has over 500 cars, but I guess 500 cars isn’t what it used to be. After Forza 5 I was hoping, maybe it would be a whole lot longer if every that they’d need to hit the reset button again.

[stepee]

21 minutes ago, best3444 said:

Mine is still downloading.  😌 

 

tell me your dad is on star link and make my week