Microsoft Forza Motorsport - Information Thread, update: Digital Foundry PC version technical review

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Hmmm every now at then you see things in this game that seem very suspect. 
 

the new Italian open series lets you select non-Italian cars. Ok. And then when you go to race the C class open the AI is all in D and E class cars upgrades to C cars, complete with race tires, even if you’re in a completely stock C class car.   

 

Did some rivals and one of my rival times was had a ghost that went very off track at least twice I could see. That should have been a dirty lap and since my last lap was clean, shouldn’t matter how fast a dirty lap is, it’s ranked lower than a clean lap. But yet it showed my rival time to beat was a clean lap. Hmmm  A couple days ago in a featured Rival event where you are locked to a specific car the top driver on the leader board was a completely different car with a maxed PI of X999. Not sure if though cheating or by accident or some other bug where they didn’t drive that car. 

 

Also it seems like it is possible that your driver level will look like it was reset. I signed in and it showed me at lvl 4. But after a race I was back up to like 171, which seems like what I was at or near enough a couple days ago. 

[SoberChef]

Oh snap, Spawn, you're in the 170's for a level too!? NICE!

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Yeah. I hate to admit it, but I have missed mainline FM, and like a recovering alcoholic “trying” a new label from their favorite brand I feel like I’ve never stopped. 
 

I cranked the difficulty up to 8, which I’m probably not really good enough for some cars, some tracks, yes, but others I can’t even get close to match AI times in practice. I have to do a lot more upgrading and tuning. What I have been doing is picking a car for a series, going into Rivals and getting a feel for the car and upgrading it until I’m happy enough to try and take on the AI. 
 

I may have been the only one here to have the issue, but I think I can happily report that the latest update has resolved the issue where the track would stop rendering in the middle of runs, including track surface disappearing. It’s nice because I realized by thinking about how I haven’t seen it when I was thinking about the game rather than it being on my mind while racing. Makes the quality feel better. SMH should have released like this, but at least it’s fixed now. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

4 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Yeah. I hate to admit it, but I have missed mainline FM, and like a recovering alcoholic “trying” a new label from their favorite brand I feel like I’ve never stopped. 
 

I cranked the difficulty up to 8, which I’m probably not really good enough for some cars, some tracks, yes, but others I can’t even get close to match AI times in practice. I have to do a lot more upgrading and tuning. What I have been doing is picking a car for a series, going into Rivals and getting a feel for the car and upgrading it until I’m happy enough to try and take on the AI. 
 

I may have been the only one here to have the issue, but I think I can happily report that the latest update has resolved the issue where the track would stop rendering in the middle of runs, including track surface disappearing. It’s nice because I realized by thinking about how I haven’t seen it when I was thinking about the game rather than it being on my mind while racing. Makes the quality feel better. SMH should have released like this, but at least it’s fixed now. 

I only had that problem for 1 lap of 1 race. I’ve been lucky in that the bugs haven’t impacted me much. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

ok I wanna bitch about the penalties in this game. 
 

I have become more and more convinced this game, and especially the people involved in the penalty system not only don’t watch or know anything about Motorsport, but may actually hate Motorsport. I just got a 1.5 second penalty for missing my breaking point having to use the escape road, and just took that escape road into the pit entrance to change tires.

 

 

blatant ramming or turning into cars, no punishment. Incidental contact that doesn’t impact another car, penalty. Cutting a corner, no penalty. Going wide where you’re already losing time, penalty. The AI also doesn’t get penalized for the same stuff you get penalized for. Which considering how much they love getting into the back of you in turn one on lap one, it’s kind of BS. 
 

I am constantly bewildered by what does and does not get a penalty. …and who the fuck is responsible for using the recorded dialog “time penalty is about half a second” for a 0.1 second penalty? That’s not “about half”. It’s a literal tenth.

[AbsolutSurgen]

14 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

ok I wanna bitch about the penalties in this game. 
 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I have become more and more convinced this game, and especially the people involved in the penalty system not only don’t watch or know anything about Motorsport, but may actually hate Motorsport. I just got a 1.5 second penalty for missing my breaking point having to use the escape road, and just took that escape road into the pit entrance to change tires.

 

 

blatant ramming or turning into cars, no punishment. Incidental contact that doesn’t impact another car, penalty. Cutting a corner, no penalty. Going wide where you’re already losing time, penalty. The AI also doesn’t get penalized for the same stuff you get penalized for. Which considering how much they love getting into the back of you in turn one on lap one, it’s kind of BS. 
 

I am constantly bewildered by what does and does not get a penalty. …and who the fuck is responsible for using the recorded dialog “time penalty is about half a second” for a 0.1 second penalty? That’s not “about half”. It’s a literal tenth.

 

I haven't played any Multiplayer, only singleplayer (and my take may be different than yours, as I may be playing at different AI (lower?) than you -- typically 5/6 for me).

 

I don't think an AI driven penalty system can be done particularly well (which is why iRacing doesn't try, and allows for protests with human stewards.  

However, I don't seem to get penalties very often?  I've learned that you are very unlikely to get a penalty for a collision, if you are on the brakes, and turning away from the car before impact.  Similarly, if you go off track, getting off the throttle and rejoining immediately usually results in no penalty.

 

Where I do see inconsistency is when I do things like taking a lot of curb in a chicane, where I sometimes get a penalty and sometimes don't.

 

That said, I think a game like this needs a penalty system in the multiplayer -- otherwise it would turn into a crash fest.  Unless, of course, it turned on realistic damage (which might be the best solution).

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Yeah all my observations are from single player. I have done zero multiplayer. But I don’t have enough faith in the system to regulate MP well at all. 
 

In a single player race I whipped a u-turn and drove the wrong way around tracking hitting as many cars as I could and only got penalized maybe a quarter of the time. Maybe. 
 

Do you race with limited / moderate / full penalties? I race with full damage and full

penalties. 
 

the inconsistency I see always seems come around 1 question. “Did I (or the AI) gain an advantage?”. And too often when a penalty is applied the answer was “no”. The collision wasn’t severe enough I gained a position, going off track didn’t make me faster or improve my lap time. In fact the times when I did gain an advantage I more often get away free. I get an algorithm based system can’t be perfect, and I don’t disagree MP needs a system, but this one feels sooo very far away from even feeling serviceable.  
 

… and nothing excuses +0:100 = “about half a second”. lmao this irritates me every time it happens.  

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Tried my first multiplayer race and holy shit am I slow.  I got destroyed. 

[SoberChef]

On 11/23/2023 at 1:33 AM, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Tried my first multiplayer race and holy shit am I slow.  I got destroyed. 

I've been curious, if you've happened to notice at all, how's my Driveatar hold up in races against you? You end up in top 5 more often than not.

[Spork3245]

6 minutes ago, SoberChef said:

I've been curious, if you've happened to notice at all, how's my Driveatar hold up in races against you? You end up in top 5 more often than not.

It’s always in last place

 

Spoiler

 

 

[SoberChef]

While it made me laugh, I have to say that Spawn & I are heavily leveled up in this game, where's YOUR standings @Spork3245

 

[Spork3245]

23 minutes ago, SoberChef said:

While it made me laugh, I have to say that Spawn & I are heavily leveled up in this game, where's YOUR standings @Spork3245

 

I’m between lvl 1 and 999

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

2 hours ago, SoberChef said:

I've been curious, if you've happened to notice at all, how's my Driveatar hold up in races against you? You end up in top 5 more often than not.

Im not even sure it works that way any more. I think it’s just using our names, but then it’s just Turn 10 AI. I don’t think they’re using the same drivatar system they did before where our skill and aggression is represented to our friends. 
 

God that drivatar system was fun. I remember training it and it going to race friends and me getting credits. It was a fun system. Friends telling each other their drivatar was either really good, really bad, or a ramming jerk. lol 
 

I’ve had people from my friends list that are lvl 1 in the game at the top of the grid finishing 3 seconds a lap ahead of everyone else. So I think it’s just randomly grabbing names from our friends list. 
 

What’s your GT again? I’m not even sure I’ve seen you in one of my races. lol I swear I’m seeing GTs I don’t even recognize in my career races too. Could just be people I haven’t played with in a very long time who changed their GT. 
 

I think the AI on lvl 8 difficulty are top 10-15% in their speed for any given track. Not all of them, but definitely the top car of any race.  I can be top 16% on a track in Rivals, 8-10 seconds seconds slower than the player with the #1 time, and then be 2-3 seconds off the top AI time after a practice session or even in the race itself. 
 

I need to get better at trail braking and slip angle. I think this is where I’m losing the most of my time. Braking in general. I think I’m not getting on it fast enough and when I do I don’t yet have a feeling for where the lockup will happen. Part of the problem is I’m fairly novice still and I keep swapping cars every 4-5 races, so the characteristics can vary significantly. 

[Keyser_Soze]

3 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Im not even sure it works that way any more. I think it’s just using our names, but then it’s just Turn 10 AI. I don’t think they’re using the same drivatar system they did before where our skill and aggression is represented to our friends.

 

Yeah I agree. I think it's just a set difficulty with a name of someone you know above it. Sadly @The def star always takes up the rear.

 

But back in the day you could tell who was who because someone taught their drivatar to bulldoze every car they see.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

 

It really depends on the track and track conditions it seems on how well I can do against the AI on max speed difficulty. I started doing practice on lvl 8 to see what times the AI will post and push me into improving and then depending on how far off the pace I am moving the difficulty down to 7 or even 6 depending on the track. This way I can still start myself in 12th and enjoy working my way up the field, but not taking first halfway around the first lap or spending the race barely able to keep up with 5th. There are some tracks and conditions though where I can leave the AI on lvl 8 and still finish 1st by the end of the last lap having started from 12th. It seems to be easier tracks and some of my favorites I’ve raced on for decades, also rain. The AI is so slow in the rain. Spa, Barcelona, Suzuka, and Maple Valley, and Hakone if it’s raining are tracks I know I can beat max AI on. The AI is rarely as fast in a race as their times in practice, so often as long as my time for practice is in the top 5 I can usually pull off my 12th to 1st charge. 

 

I can often beat the AI every time on lvl 8 if I start in 3rd. But then that’s just me trying to take first by turn 1 and then being in the AI’s way for the rest of the laps. That’s not really as fun or rewarding as a 12th to 1st charge over 4 or 5 laps.

 

I guess that would be my advice to anyone if they’re struggling to find the game interesting. Find the difficulty where you can spend 70-85% of the race picking off cars as cleanly as possible. It may be a different difficulty from race to race.you don’t have to get into tuning, but it helps to dial in a car you like or really want to like. Just don’t set the AI so hard you can’t break into the top 3 and don’t set the AI so low you’re taking the lead in the first lap.  

I think my favorite series so far has been the new Open Tour, which was supposed to be an Italian open tour, but they let you pick non-Italian cars. Eh whatever. The AI was all Italian for me at least. I took it as an opportunity to do the same and chose Ferrari. I started with the oldest Ferrari in the game and each series I went newer and newer. I kind of wished there was one more series for the P class cars. The S class series I drove the Ferrari Enzo and man once I tuned it that thing felt so dialed in. lol by comparison the 488 GTB feels like crap. It’s like driving on ice with too much power and under steer. Awful. Lmao. But the open tour as a whole was fun. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

Master Hockenheim in Forza Motorsport Update 3

FORZA.NET

---

Hockenheim, new Spotlight cars and the Contemporary Tour arrive next week, free to all players.

[AbsolutSurgen]

On 11/22/2023 at 2:02 PM, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Yeah all my observations are from single player. I have done zero multiplayer. But I don’t have enough faith in the system to regulate MP well at all. 
 

In a single player race I whipped a u-turn and drove the wrong way around tracking hitting as many cars as I could and only got penalized maybe a quarter of the time. Maybe. 
 

Do you race with limited / moderate / full penalties? I race with full damage and full

penalties. 
 

the inconsistency I see always seems come around 1 question. “Did I (or the AI) gain an advantage?”. And too often when a penalty is applied the answer was “no”. The collision wasn’t severe enough I gained a position, going off track didn’t make me faster or improve my lap time. In fact the times when I did gain an advantage I more often get away free. I get an algorithm based system can’t be perfect, and I don’t disagree MP needs a system, but this one feels sooo very far away from even feeling serviceable.  
 

… and nothing excuses +0:100 = “about half a second”. lmao this irritates me every time it happens.  

I was playing on the middle setting -- have done my last 6-7 races on the highest level.  I guess, I just don't get that many penalties?

I may be playing on a lower Drivatar difficulty than you (alternating between 5-6).  The only time I usually have collisions is on the first few corners -- now I focus on trying to stary clean through them, even if I lose a few positions.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

12 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I was playing on the middle setting -- have done my last 6-7 races on the highest level.  I guess, I just don't get that many penalties?

I may be playing on a lower Drivatar difficulty than you (alternating between 5-6).  The only time I usually have collisions is on the first few corners -- now I focus on trying to stary clean through them, even if I lose a few positions.

 Yeah it’s often in the first couple of corners where I get it. My Achilles heel as it were seems to be the AI making a quick move to the side to block me, brake checking me in the process. Maybe I need to watch more GT racing, because in F1 this AI would have lost its super license by now with the stuff they pull. 
 

usually once I get past the first few corners and up into at least 5th the AI races much more cleanly. But sometimes that 9th to 5th run in the first lap can still be treacherous as they make some aggressive blocks or try to drive through me in a corner at times. I love the racing from cars 5th and above. 
 

I think the issue is I can’t start too high in a race or I’ll be on third’s tail by about turn 2, and I won’t get to savor the race. But AI races so desperately lower than 5th and the races aren’t long enough I can afford to let 1-3 get too far ahead on the first lap. 
 

I need to try making a free play race with the AI and the race long enough that I can start further back and not be too rushed to catch the leaders. See if the race experience is different getting through the midfield. I also wonder how the AI handles being back markers (lapped traffic). Due they obey blue flag rules and make reasonable efforts to stay out of the way of cars on the lead lap. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Also, not that my driving is top tier or anything, but in a follow up to my glorious failure in my first online race I tried another. I realized the drivers are like using tunes on the Civic as you can’t actually upgrade it. It’s a spec series. So I tuned it and I was quite a bit faster. Able to qualify 3rd. After the race I went into Rivals and wasn’t really able to better my time. But using tunes used by those higher on the leader board I was able to get even faster by over 2 seconds. Though never able to match the times of the driver I got the tune from.
 

so I’m slow, but not THAT slow. lol 

[Biggie]

Played some more of this tonight. It’s so good. Also played DiRT Rally 2.0. Both excellent racers. DiRT is so fucking fun. 

[Keyser_Soze]

 

Experience Daytona in Forza Motorsport Update 4

FORZA.NET

---

Get ready for race weekend with Daytona, new Spotlight cars and the Italian Challengers Tour.

 

[XxEvil AshxX]

I'm glad they seem to be adding new tracks on a regular basis... but man would it kill them to put in some of their more distinctive tracks? After a while all these licensed tracks seem to blend together.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

2 hours ago, XxEvil AshxX said:

I'm glad they seem to be adding new tracks on a regular basis... but man would it kill them to put in some of their more distinctive tracks? After a while all these licensed tracks seem to blend together.

yeah and I can play licensed tracks pretty much anywhere. I guess it’s fine if FM is the only sim style game you have access to, but if you have access to more sims then FM just “exists”.  FM hasn’t done anything to stand out or set itself apart in a positive way from others that will keep people playing. 3 months past launch and neither career nor multiplayer has been improved meaningfully. But that could also be because of how buggy the game has been, making basic playability challenging for many. 
 

But T10 does need to do some major development work. This game may not have a community a year from now, but if a year from the game is very much the same but with more tracks and cars, it won’t have a resurgence T10 or anyone may be hoping for. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

Went Go Karting for the first time on Saturday night with a bunch of the gang from high school.  My best laps were ~20.4 seconds -- best time my buddies had done was 20.9 -- and most were close to 22 (or slower).  This includes some guys who have put some serious time in Gran Turismo and Forza.

Apparently the 400 or so hours I have put in the Forza games on a controller actually do translate (somewhat) into lap times in a real vehicle.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

There’s many things to learn in games that can be applied on real tracks. Carrying as much speed as you can, not bleeding too much off is crucial in karting. It may be hard to feel that in 600hp GT cars, but in 100hp E class cars you’ll definitely feel that. 

[SoberChef]

Nordschleife Arrives in Forza Motorsport Update 5

FORZA.NET

---

Tackle the exhilarating 20.8-kilometer Nordschleife coming this February to Forza Motorsport.

Now THIS is what's up!

[XxEvil AshxX]

About damn time.