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Jason

The official thread of no of course we're not running concentration camps how dare you imply that and even if we are the Democrats made us do it.

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13 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

I read somewhere that it's being used, by at least some, as a tactic to pull the GOP back towards the center on immigration. 

 

That's what I've seen too with the "overton window" thing -- taking a position that progressive to make it acceptable to large swaths of the public (similar to how the NRA helped transform what's acceptable on guns) and the "compromise" position would be more progressive.

 

And I think that's what user is saying; if it helps rally the activists and pull the conversation left as opposed to "fighting from the center," then he's for it. I totally get that. Every person I've seen who showed up during health care debates, at immigration rallies, at march for women, I view as the true "heroes" in the past year and a half who have helped halt the US from going so far in the other direction (or at least make it way more difficult), and they've had something to rally around.

 

I don't think Medicare-for-All, even if it's solved by "boring policy," is something that's just that; that's a huge rallying cry for progressive activists. On a separate topic, I think the ACA is underappreciated in how it's fundamentally transformed how we're talking about health care (for the better).

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Heres the poll hes citing, the question doesn't mention Obama, and "Most" is really just a plurality, also has him underwater in approval, GOP down by 7 in generic ballot, and get this his worst numbers are coming from the midwest, lol.

 

https://www.emerson.edu/sites/default/files/Files/Academics/ecp-national-july2018-PR.pdf

 

The Midwest, where views of their economic situation have lagged other regions, there is an 18 point lead for the generic Democratic candidate, 52% to 34%

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11 minutes ago, Jason said:

SOOOOOOOO simple

 

 

 

He's just saying things now. Of course he forgets to mention that the Democrats (who aren't obstructing - laughable - I WISH they obstructed more) are/would only obstruct because they want to go back to at least Obama-level era immigration. Trump wants it even harsher - he wants to make his illegal immigration policies and executive orders legal by turning them into law through legislation, and he's annoyed Democrats won't vote for draconian immigration laws.

 

Of course they are obstructing! That's like being angry that someone is obstructing your ability to murder people, while you ask them to help make murder legal. 

 

Like, WTF?

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1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

He's just saying things now. Of course he forgets to mention that the Democrats (who aren't obstructing - laughable - I WISH they obstructed more) are/would only obstruct because they want to go back to at least Obama-level era immigration. Trump wants it even harsher - he wants to make his illegal immigration policies and executive orders legal by turning them into law through legislation, and he's annoyed Democrats won't vote for draconian immigration laws.

 

Of course they are obstructing! That's like being angry that someone is obstructing your ability to murder people, while you ask them to help make murder legal. 

 

Like, WTF?

 

@SaysWho? - this is why abolish ice is important. Trump's wins are mostly symbolic and lead to the acceptance of other wins. It's a strategy where he is shaking everything in his direction. If the left won't shake shit, they only keep some pieces in place as broken remnants.

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8 minutes ago, 2user1cup said:

 

@SaysWho? - this is why abolish ice is important. Trump's wins are mostly symbolic and lead to the acceptance of other wins. It's a strategy where he is shaking everything in his direction. If the left won't shake shit, they only keep some pieces in place as broken remnants.

 

Precisely. Abolishing ICE is an incredibly important move.

 

If not abolish ICE, at least separate the two branches of it from each other so everyone knows which branch to really hate (Investigations vs. Immigration Detentions & Deportations).

 

http://thehill.com/latino/394757-more-than-a-dozen-ice-agents-call-to-abolish-agency

 

That would help so much. Because ICE has clearly gone way past its mandate at this point and separating the two bureaus under ICE would so clearly indicate how bad the one bureau is for the people. Trump uses the existence of the "Investigations" branch to justify all the bad things the "Immigration Detentions & Deportations" branch does and it confuses people.

 

Separate them, Trump has no leg to stand on, and the Immigration Detentions bureau will be abolished, I guarantee you. The Investigations side is actually important and I do not think that should be dissolved but I'll take the entire dissolution of ICE if they can't be separated. ICE being under the Department of Homeland Security is also a labeling nightmare because immigration generally shouldn't inherently be under "Security" because it implies that all immigration requires security which implies threats. Immigration, as an idea, is not inherently threatening, but the government wants us to think it is by doing it this way. 

 

You see the marketing now? It's ridiculous. 

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6 minutes ago, 2user1cup said:

 

@SaysWho? - this is why abolish ice is important. Trump's wins are mostly symbolic and lead to the acceptance of other wins. It's a strategy where he is shaking everything in his direction. If the left won't shake shit, they only keep some pieces in place as broken remnants.

 

Edited my previous post and added a good bit haha. :)

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8 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

 

I love when Christians talk about Jesus like they know what happened back then better than what they ate yesterday for breakfast.

 

"Jesus was definitely in Egypt for 3.5 years! Didn't you see his lease on his apartment in Cairo in 29 CE? It's all right there!"

 

These people, seriously. The Bible is just stories, not historical documents peer-reviewed and checked. 

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The worst are the immigrants that are anti-illegal immigration like many in my larger family. Enjoy that citizenship broskies because youd be illegal today under current laws.

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Just now, Jose said:

The worst are the immigrants that are anti-illegal immigration like many in my larger family. Enjoy that citizenship broskies because youd be illegal today under current laws.

 

It's actually crazy how many "legal" "well-to-do" immigrants I know who hate "illegal" immigrants. It's nuts.

 

A friend and my wife, both immigrants, looked at me and said: "do it legal". I explained asylum seeking IS legal, and they didn't know what to say other than: "yeah, but others are illegal". I explained that for many they are coming illegally because they are running from gang or drug violence, etc. They again didn't know what to say, but doubted that was the case with most illegal immigrants, like I'd lie about it. 

 

These are otherwise very liberal and progressive people. Fucking bizarre. My parents, also immigrants, are the same way. They should all be mandated to go to the border and deal with real illegal immigrants. See if their hearts soften or harden. I promise a good person's will soften. 

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5 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

It's actually crazy how many "legal" "well-to-do" immigrants I know who hate "illegal" immigrants. It's nuts.

 

A friend and my wife, both immigrants, looked at me and said: "do it legal". I explained asylum seeking IS legal, and they didn't know what to say other than: "yeah, but others are illegal". I explained that for many they are coming illegally because they are running from gang or drug violence, etc. They again didn't know what to say, but doubted that was the case with most illegal immigrants, like I'd lie about it. 

 

These are otherwise very liberal and progressive people. Fucking bizarre. My parents, also immigrants, are the same way. They should all be mandated to go to the border and deal with real illegal immigrants. See if their hearts soften or harden. I promise a good person's will soften. 

 

From what I can tell it's basically a bunch of people who've been hazed, who now refuse to let other people avoid being hazed in the same way, because they think it'll retroactively mean they went through the hazing for nothing. And the only other people who care to scream about it as loudly as they do are white people who live in places without any immigrants.

 

immigration-flow-chart.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

From what I can tell it's basically a bunch of people who've been hazed, who now refuse to let other people avoid being hazed in the same way, because they think it'll retroactively mean they went through the hazing for nothing. And the only other people who care to scream about it as loudly as they do are white people who live in places without any immigrants.

 

immigration-flow-chart.jpg

 

I think what you've said is right on the money! They always say it like they're jealous. Always. I'm like: "Jesus, guys, I was in a fraternity but I didn't want to haze people just because I was hazed". Yes, I was in a fraternity, heh. 

 

And I haven't seen that infographic in ages! Still as good as I remember. Respek. 

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I'm not THAT surprised that he said that. I knew he hangs out with many right-wingers and has plenty of right-wing views, but I haven't disliked him since... Newsradio, I think.

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