GeneticBlueprint Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I read somewhere that it's being used, by at least some, as a tactic to pull the GOP back towards the center on immigration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said: I read somewhere that it's being used, by at least some, as a tactic to pull the GOP back towards the center on immigration. That's what I've seen too with the "overton window" thing -- taking a position that progressive to make it acceptable to large swaths of the public (similar to how the NRA helped transform what's acceptable on guns) and the "compromise" position would be more progressive. And I think that's what user is saying; if it helps rally the activists and pull the conversation left as opposed to "fighting from the center," then he's for it. I totally get that. Every person I've seen who showed up during health care debates, at immigration rallies, at march for women, I view as the true "heroes" in the past year and a half who have helped halt the US from going so far in the other direction (or at least make it way more difficult), and they've had something to rally around. I don't think Medicare-for-All, even if it's solved by "boring policy," is something that's just that; that's a huge rallying cry for progressive activists. On a separate topic, I think the ACA is underappreciated in how it's fundamentally transformed how we're talking about health care (for the better). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 SCOTUS overturns in 3, 2,... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 58 minutes ago, Jason said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Heres the poll hes citing, the question doesn't mention Obama, and "Most" is really just a plurality, also has him underwater in approval, GOP down by 7 in generic ballot, and get this his worst numbers are coming from the midwest, lol. https://www.emerson.edu/sites/default/files/Files/Academics/ecp-national-july2018-PR.pdf The Midwest, where views of their economic situation have lagged other regions, there is an 18 point lead for the generic Democratic candidate, 52% to 34% 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Jason said: Wow. I didn't know the presidency had so much power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5timechamp Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 4 hours ago, Jason said: That is impressive.. they looked for every possible "loophole" that allows them to exert and cling to control.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 US Citizen father and toddler separated for a year https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/11/us-immigration-family-separations-doj-us-citizens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/10/us-immigrant-women-ice-van-california 9 women handcuffed in hot windowless van for hours without food or water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 SOOOOOOOO simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, Jason said: SOOOOOOOO simple He's just saying things now. Of course he forgets to mention that the Democrats (who aren't obstructing - laughable - I WISH they obstructed more) are/would only obstruct because they want to go back to at least Obama-level era immigration. Trump wants it even harsher - he wants to make his illegal immigration policies and executive orders legal by turning them into law through legislation, and he's annoyed Democrats won't vote for draconian immigration laws. Of course they are obstructing! That's like being angry that someone is obstructing your ability to murder people, while you ask them to help make murder legal. Like, WTF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said: He's just saying things now. Of course he forgets to mention that the Democrats (who aren't obstructing - laughable - I WISH they obstructed more) are/would only obstruct because they want to go back to at least Obama-level era immigration. Trump wants it even harsher - he wants to make his illegal immigration policies and executive orders legal by turning them into law through legislation, and he's annoyed Democrats won't vote for draconian immigration laws. Of course they are obstructing! That's like being angry that someone is obstructing your ability to murder people, while you ask them to help make murder legal. Like, WTF? @SaysWho? - this is why abolish ice is important. Trump's wins are mostly symbolic and lead to the acceptance of other wins. It's a strategy where he is shaking everything in his direction. If the left won't shake shit, they only keep some pieces in place as broken remnants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, 2user1cup said: @SaysWho? - this is why abolish ice is important. Trump's wins are mostly symbolic and lead to the acceptance of other wins. It's a strategy where he is shaking everything in his direction. If the left won't shake shit, they only keep some pieces in place as broken remnants. Precisely. Abolishing ICE is an incredibly important move. If not abolish ICE, at least separate the two branches of it from each other so everyone knows which branch to really hate (Investigations vs. Immigration Detentions & Deportations). http://thehill.com/latino/394757-more-than-a-dozen-ice-agents-call-to-abolish-agency That would help so much. Because ICE has clearly gone way past its mandate at this point and separating the two bureaus under ICE would so clearly indicate how bad the one bureau is for the people. Trump uses the existence of the "Investigations" branch to justify all the bad things the "Immigration Detentions & Deportations" branch does and it confuses people. Separate them, Trump has no leg to stand on, and the Immigration Detentions bureau will be abolished, I guarantee you. The Investigations side is actually important and I do not think that should be dissolved but I'll take the entire dissolution of ICE if they can't be separated. ICE being under the Department of Homeland Security is also a labeling nightmare because immigration generally shouldn't inherently be under "Security" because it implies that all immigration requires security which implies threats. Immigration, as an idea, is not inherently threatening, but the government wants us to think it is by doing it this way. You see the marketing now? It's ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, 2user1cup said: @SaysWho? - this is why abolish ice is important. Trump's wins are mostly symbolic and lead to the acceptance of other wins. It's a strategy where he is shaking everything in his direction. If the left won't shake shit, they only keep some pieces in place as broken remnants. Edited my previous post and added a good bit haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, Jason said: I love when Christians talk about Jesus like they know what happened back then better than what they ate yesterday for breakfast. "Jesus was definitely in Egypt for 3.5 years! Didn't you see his lease on his apartment in Cairo in 29 CE? It's all right there!" These people, seriously. The Bible is just stories, not historical documents peer-reviewed and checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Its so weird when people take modern concepts and just assume thats how it worked back then as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 24 minutes ago, Jason said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 21 minutes ago, thewhyteboar said: He didn't go far enough. Organized religion was a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 36 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said: Its so weird when people take modern concepts and just assume thats how it worked back then as well. Our current concept of "illegal immigration" is less than a hundred years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 The worst are the immigrants that are anti-illegal immigration like many in my larger family. Enjoy that citizenship broskies because youd be illegal today under current laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Just now, Jose said: The worst are the immigrants that are anti-illegal immigration like many in my larger family. Enjoy that citizenship broskies because youd be illegal today under current laws. It's actually crazy how many "legal" "well-to-do" immigrants I know who hate "illegal" immigrants. It's nuts. A friend and my wife, both immigrants, looked at me and said: "do it legal". I explained asylum seeking IS legal, and they didn't know what to say other than: "yeah, but others are illegal". I explained that for many they are coming illegally because they are running from gang or drug violence, etc. They again didn't know what to say, but doubted that was the case with most illegal immigrants, like I'd lie about it. These are otherwise very liberal and progressive people. Fucking bizarre. My parents, also immigrants, are the same way. They should all be mandated to go to the border and deal with real illegal immigrants. See if their hearts soften or harden. I promise a good person's will soften. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: It's actually crazy how many "legal" "well-to-do" immigrants I know who hate "illegal" immigrants. It's nuts. A friend and my wife, both immigrants, looked at me and said: "do it legal". I explained asylum seeking IS legal, and they didn't know what to say other than: "yeah, but others are illegal". I explained that for many they are coming illegally because they are running from gang or drug violence, etc. They again didn't know what to say, but doubted that was the case with most illegal immigrants, like I'd lie about it. These are otherwise very liberal and progressive people. Fucking bizarre. My parents, also immigrants, are the same way. They should all be mandated to go to the border and deal with real illegal immigrants. See if their hearts soften or harden. I promise a good person's will soften. From what I can tell it's basically a bunch of people who've been hazed, who now refuse to let other people avoid being hazed in the same way, because they think it'll retroactively mean they went through the hazing for nothing. And the only other people who care to scream about it as loudly as they do are white people who live in places without any immigrants. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jason said: From what I can tell it's basically a bunch of people who've been hazed, who now refuse to let other people avoid being hazed in the same way, because they think it'll retroactively mean they went through the hazing for nothing. And the only other people who care to scream about it as loudly as they do are white people who live in places without any immigrants. I think what you've said is right on the money! They always say it like they're jealous. Always. I'm like: "Jesus, guys, I was in a fraternity but I didn't want to haze people just because I was hazed". Yes, I was in a fraternity, heh. And I haven't seen that infographic in ages! Still as good as I remember. Respek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Brown ppl thinking they're white Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, 2user1cup said: Brown ppl thinking they're white Dinesh D'Souza and Ajit Pai syndrome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 7 hours ago, Jason said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I'm not THAT surprised that he said that. I knew he hangs out with many right-wingers and has plenty of right-wing views, but I haven't disliked him since... Newsradio, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I can't watch the video, what does he say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Some of this shit is so depressing... Like WTF is wrong with these people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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